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Getting the "PERFECT" sound
Old 18th November 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
Getting the "PERFECT" sound

ok i have a u87 mic, avalon mic pre, mbox with pro tools, presonus firestudio interface with cubase...

I'm planning on sticking with cubase and the presonus interface...

But i hate how the vocals are sounding. I want them to sound as good as possible going in that way i can use less plugins.
We do mostly R&B/pop/alternative/rock type songs.
And i don't want to spend no more than 5k

I was recommended:
the great river me 1nv
apogee rosetta 200 or duet
pelluso 2247 mic
sure sm7b

I heard the avalon is not the best mic pre but the eq and compressor on it is cool, and that mic isn't all that. I'm not sure what the problem is or what i'm missing but what do you guess recommend being professionals with experience.
I want a hot versatile mic chain
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

your sure the gear is the problem ???

with that kind of gear maybe the :

singer isnt what you expect ?
the room doesnt help you achieve your desired result ?
vocal treatment and fx in mixdown is something different compared to the pure sound ?

... or you know all that and your just hungry for some kick ass stuff ???

first thing i would change is the mbox, if a converter change doesnt bring the desired result, then its a looong way to go.

good luck
Old 18th November 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up View Post
your sure the gear is the problem ???

with that kind of gear maybe the :

singer isnt what you expect ?
the room doesnt help you achieve your desired result ?
vocal treatment and fx in mixdown is something different compared to the pure sound ?

... or you know all that and your just hungry for some kick ass stuff ???

first thing i would change is the mbox, if a converter change doesnt bring the desired result, then its a looong way to go.

good luck
here's the singer Julien on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Maybe hearing the voice will help determine what's needed


So far I was told that the best route would be
pacifica mic pre
hammer eq
dbx 160sl comp
Lynx Aurora Converter 8 or 16 channel
peluso 2247 mic
spl 2 control

which is way over the price i was thinking of--- but if that would get the sound i'm looking for then what i would probably end up doing is getting the converter, mic, and mic pre first.. and then getting the eq, compressor, spl 2 control, interface controls, and cabling another time.
Old 18th November 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

i dont know, but i would say an awesome mixer is able to add the " pro " factor that your probably missing ? ( of course depending a lot on the arrangement as well )

just listening to singing & believe, sounding totally different on both tracks. still, wired levels, reverb from hell, etc.

matter of taste, best is to try the gear you want to replace. if its night and day, your on the right way.
Old 18th November 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Bubbakron's Avatar
 

The avalon is a tube preamp!! Its very warm and slow- miles davis stand up bass sound!! Its the last thing you want for modern tone. Unless you want to sound like babyface, sell it!! I had two thinking I was done for life, both gone along with my M5's. They look great in a rack , and great for some types of music- but are not gonna make you compeetetive in 2010. Neve is the way to go, Portico. If you want a brighter sound than neve get an api or ssl. If you search for preamp characteristics you will find forum after forum on here- theres tons of preamp info on GS. The converter is not "that" big of deal, your still gonna get the sound your recording. Its all in th preamps. STAY WITH THE U87!!!!!!!!!!!Click link-
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Old 18th November 2009
  #6
nas
Lives for gear
 
nas's Avatar
 

It seems that you have pretty descent equipment already but perhaps you are looking for a different flavor? Given that your source is good (room and singer) I would try out different mics and mic preamps as they are probably going to have the biggest influence on your vocal sound. But don't rule out a nice sounding compressor and EQ in your front end. Can you find a place or studio that has a few other options?.. you can rent some stuff or book some time with your singers and just experiment with various options. It will be time and money well spent and may help you to fine tune your equipment choices.

Good luck.
Old 19th November 2009
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Is the singer in tune ?? (I am not kidding)

Music sounds great when it's in tune..
Old 19th November 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 
RonT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vdub View Post
ok i have a u87 mic, avalon mic pre, mbox with pro tools, presonus firestudio interface with cubase...

I'm planning on sticking with cubase and the presonus interface...

But i hate how the vocals are sounding. I want them to sound as good as possible going in that way i can use less plugins.
We do mostly R&B/pop/alternative/rock type songs.
And i don't want to spend no more than 5k

I was recommended:
the great river me 1nv
apogee rosetta 200 or duet
pelluso 2247 mic
sure sm7b

I heard the avalon is not the best mic pre but the eq and compressor on it is cool, and that mic isn't all that. I'm not sure what the problem is or what i'm missing but what do you guess recommend being professionals with experience.
I want a hot versatile mic chain
I am thinking that maybe just maybe you are doing what most people do in the beginning.

u87 to avalon then avalon to interface via mic cables......tutt

First if you "are" doing this which you probally are, you have killed the sound of the 737 by running into a less quality preamp. Then you have killed the sound of the u87 by running it through a less quality preamp! Then you have killed the sound of both the u87 and the 737 by running it through inferior converters.

To avoid double pre-ing you need to use an XLR to TRS cable. You then need to plug that into the balanced line inputs of your interface. This will solve 50% of your problem but you will not get the clarity that both the mic and the preamp offer until you go through a decent conveter.

Depending on how much you will be needing to record at one time will determine how many channels of ADC you will need now.

U87 and Avalon 737 play very nice together for R&B and Pop music. Whoever say they don't is fooling themselves.

Room treatment goes a long long long long long way but please do not stick the output into any lowbudget preamp and then into a lowbudget converter and expect to get killer results!

Rosetta 200 is an excellent solution for the MBox! Your mic and pre are fine as long as it is not an older version of the 737 it should already have the babyface mod for the fast attact on the comp.
Old 19th November 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
loveinoctober's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vdub View Post
ok i have a u87 mic, avalon mic pre, mbox with pro tools, presonus firestudio interface with cubase...

I'm planning on sticking with cubase and the presonus interface...

But i hate how the vocals are sounding. I want them to sound as good as possible going in that way i can use less plugins.
We do mostly R&B/pop/alternative/rock type songs.
And i don't want to spend no more than 5k

I was recommended:
the great river me 1nv
apogee rosetta 200 or duet
pelluso 2247 mic
sure sm7b

I heard the avalon is not the best mic pre but the eq and compressor on it is cool, and that mic isn't all that. I'm not sure what the problem is or what i'm missing but what do you guess recommend being professionals with experience.
I want a hot versatile mic chain
The mbox is your problem. Get rid of it. Maybe try the Apogee Duet...
Old 19th November 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
RonT's Avatar
 

The last thing you want to do is ditch PT. You are going to be forced to learn, use, and transfer PT sessions! It is a solid DAW and most studios have PT capabilities. Although LE has some very "bad" limitations, with the limited amount of gear you have it will not effect you........"much"

A high quality stereo DAC/ADC is something that you are going to "need" throughout your recording experience. Your interface will not allow you to use 8-16 channel converters now so it might be a wise decision to get the 2 channel now and when the time comes get the additional channels in another unit.

Stereo DAC/DAC are usually used for dedicated monitoring setups. Buy equipment now that will last a lifetime (or close to it) and it will come out cheaper in the long run becuase I have been there done that. I have sold so much stuff becuase of not thinking about future expansion but hey you live and learn. This place is an excellent place for advise and research but be very cautious of some of the advice you recieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
The mbox is your problem. Get rid of it. Maybe try the Apogee Duet...
Duet has 2 inputs and 2 outputs! Why in the world would you go to another interface that only allows 2 i/o? And although its apogee the converters in it are not as good as a Rosetta. Plus you cannot use it as a standalong converter.
Old 19th November 2009
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

lol. Plenty rash advice. As ever on here.

What comes to mind:

You say you 'hate' the sound you're getting. Sounds pretty harsh. To the extent that even if you in theory had a preference for another piece in your chain, if with this equipment you get a sound that you hate, I'd venture to say other boxes can't save you. You should be getting something respectable or better out of those tools. After that it's into the detail, and there you could gain by other boxes. To me the Avalon would be replaced, but that's personal preference. I believe Babyface made quite a few well sounding records with that thing....lol
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