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Indie Rock: Apogee AD16X vs. Lynx Aurora
Old 17th November 2009
  #1
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Indie Rock: Apogee AD16X vs. Lynx Aurora

Hello All,

So I've been thinking about upgrading my D/A converters before my band records our next album this spring. I'm looking at the Apogee AD16X (and I haven't ruled out the Rosetta 800 either) or the Lynx Aurora. My band does indie dance rock. I attached a demo of the material so you can get an idea what we're talking about.

My signal chain is great minus the A/D converter.

Real Traps room tuning ---> Great Mic Collection ---> Neve/API Preamps ---> 003 Rack ---> PT LE (I run it on a Macbook via firewire)

So I'm thinking about switching platforms to Logic Pro 9. I don't want to upgrade to PT HD because I don't use many plugins (I'm an outboard guy), so that seems like it would be a waste of money to me. Sometimes we track drums at other studios/rooms to get different sounds, but it shouldn't be a problem bouncing back and forth between Logic and PT, right?

I'd like to continue using my firewire/macbook setup. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on what converter you think I should get and why. Please let me know if you work in the indie rock genre as well. Thanks in advance.
Attached Files

Deperate Demo - 1.mp3 (5.79 MB, 1445 views)

Old 17th November 2009
  #2
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

get a RADAR.

best converters i have heard.........

or just keep doing what you are doing.

the converters matter a little, but its not going to revolutionize your sound.
Old 17th November 2009
  #3
get a pair of 888's. they are the most "indie rock". ill sell them to you for 10,000 a piece. its a bargain.
Old 17th November 2009
  #4
Gear Addict
 
Tim Abraham's Avatar
 

You can't use more than 10 channels of external ad/da with the 003 (via ADAT + S/pidf), so it'd be a huge waste of money to get the AD16x.

Get a Rosetta 800 (it's good enough that everything else matters more) or a Lynx 8 and get a BLA mod for your 003 to improve the 8 stock converters.

Another reason to get to get the 800 or Lynx 8 is that if you're mixing using alot of outboard, the DA converters are just as important as the AD.
Old 17th November 2009
  #5
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Abraham View Post
You can't use more than 10 channels of external ad/da with the 003 (via ADAT + S/pidf), so it'd be a huge waste of money to get the AD16x.

Get a Rosetta 800 (it's good enough that everything else matters more) or a Lynx 8 and get a BLA mod for your 003 to improve the 8 stock converters.

Another reason to get to get the 800 or Lynx 8 is that if you're mixing using alot of outboard, the DA converters are just as important as the AD.
Hi Tim,

I'm really more interested in the quality of the converters rather than the track count. Like I said, we often track drums in different studios and then do overdubs at our studio. I rarely wish that I had more than 8 tracks.

I've heard the Rosetta is supposed to be much better when clocked with a big ben. Is that true?

I should have mention that I track at 24 Bit 88.2KHz.

Erik
Old 17th November 2009
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
Hi Tim,

I'm really more interested in the quality of the converters rather than the track count. Like I said, we often track drums in different studios and then do overdubs at our studio. I rarely wish that I had more than 8 tracks.

I've heard the Rosetta is supposed to be much better when clocked with a big ben. Is that true?

I should have mention that I track at 24 Bit 88.2KHz.

Erik
Depends on what you consider the word "better" to actually mean.

There is more harmonic distortion, transient rounding when using a BB with a R800. Basically, to my ear the clock brings up more bottom octave distortion, smooths the HF stuff a bit, perhaps "tightens" the overall tone. It may be perceived as more euphony, but it is only more distortion. Overall I think the BB brings this converter "closer" to an AD/DA16x, but it does not turn it into one. Those boxes have better analog circuits, which is what is responsible for better results in my experience. Overall, with this configuration, the "effect" is more apparent when used in multi-channel configuration, but the difference I refer to; is seemingly inconsequential to using the Rosetta Series converters to encode and decode great sounding music.
Old 17th November 2009
  #7
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

FORGET the Rosetta! You'll (eventually) want some ditital connections and the Rosetta is a digital handicap. Best bang for the buck is probably the Lynx...
Old 17th November 2009
  #8
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Depends on what you consider the word "better" to actually mean.

There is more harmonic distortion, transient rounding when using a BB with a R800. Basically, to my ear the clock brings up more bottom octave distortion, smooths the HF stuff a bit, perhaps "tightens" the overall tone. It may be perceived as more euphony, but it is only more distortion. Overall I think the BB brings this converter "closer" to an AD/DA16x, but it does not turn it into one. Those boxes have better analog circuits, which is what is responsible for better results in my experience. Overall, with this configuration, the "effect" is more apparent when used in multi-channel configuration, but the difference I refer to; is seemingly inconsequential to using the Rosetta Series converters to encode and decode great sounding music.
Hi Adam,

So is the rosetta 800 any good when used without the BB clock? Would it be a significant step from the Digi 003?

A R800 is about $2k used and a BB $900 so about $3k total. Seems like I should start thinking about a used AD/DA16X when I get in that range.

Does Apogee have demo models one can lend? I know Lynx does.
Old 17th November 2009
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
Hi Adam,

So is the rosetta 800 any good when used without the BB clock?
I think its a fine sounding converter without any external clock. This concept is gearslutz induced mania, and it is nothing but the smallest and inconsequential of tonal changes. Unless you have more than one converter to synchronize, I suggest you save your dough for more important tools of the trade.

Quote:
Would it be a significant step from the Digi 003?
Indefinitely, to my ear. The Digi stuff sounds like someone waving a sheet of paper attached to a pillow in front of the speakers. Maybe its a white flag?

Quote:
A R800 is about $2k used and a BB $900 so about $3k total. Seems like I should start thinking about a used AD/DA16X when I get in that range.
Actually, a 16X system is double that. They are the best products Apogee has to offer, but if you only have a 003 to interface them, it is utterly pointless, as you cannot use 16 Channels of Light Pipe with these terrible, awful boxes of snot encrusted circuits. The Rosetta is an excellent converter though. I have a R200 and love it. Yea, its clocked from My DA16x. Can I make masters without the DA16x, clock. Phuck yes. Will I unpatch it since there is more distortion, Phuck no.

Quote:
Does Apogee have demo models one can lend? I know Lynx does.
I am quite sure your favorite Apogee and Lynx dealer will allow you to properly evaluate these converter boxes in your studio, and let you return the losing unit.
Old 18th November 2009
  #10
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
I think its a fine sounding converter without any external clock. This concept is gearslutz induced mania, and it is nothing but the smallest and inconsequential of tonal changes. Unless you have more than one converter to synchronize, I suggest you save your dough for more important tools of the trade.

Indefinitely, to my ear. The Digi stuff sounds like someone waving a sheet of paper attached to a pillow in front of the speakers. Maybe its a white flag?

Actually, a 16X system is double that. They are the best products Apogee has to offer, but if you only have a 003 to interface them, it is utterly pointless, as you cannot use 16 Channels of Light Pipe with these terrible, awful boxes of snot encrusted circuits. The Rosetta is an excellent converter though. I have a R200 and love it. Yea, its clocked from My DA16x. Can I make masters without the DA16x, clock. Phuck yes. Will I unpatch it since there is more distortion, Phuck no.

I am quite sure your favorite Apogee and Lynx dealer will allow you to properly evaluate these converter boxes in your studio, and let you return the losing unit.


Yeah, the Rosetta seems maybe like a more cost effective way to go if I want to keep using the macbook/firewire setup. I'm disappointed that the 003 can only do 48kHz when using the digital optical connection. I guess I'll get the firewire card and go into logic and avoid the 003 all together.
Old 18th November 2009
  #11
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SANDS's Avatar
 

the lynx aurora 8 with the fw option would be great, ditch the digi and use logic, cubase, etc...

the lynx sounds great.
Old 18th November 2009
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
Yeah, the Rosetta seems maybe like a more cost effective way to go if I want to keep using the macbook/firewire setup. I'm disappointed that the 003 can only do 48kHz when using the digital optical connection. I guess I'll get the firewire card and go into logic and avoid the 003 all together.
Hi Erik,

Also feel free to call our support team with any questions you may have. They can help you with any configuration questions you may have.
310-584-9394

Chris Lawson
Apogee Electronics
Old 18th November 2009
  #13
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Daedalus77's Avatar
At this level, both will certainly do the job just fine. I've used both, and I preferred the Apogee, but there are plenty of folks who dig the Lynx. It's an incremental thing, much less important than the other dimensions of your signal flow.

FWIW we use AD-16X, DA-16X, Rosetta 800 for 24 I/O. The master clock is the AD-16X. The Rosetta doesn't sound as "deep" as the 16Xs, but clocked to the AD-16X it sounds pretty good to my ears.

I wouldn't fret too much here; make a decision and move on.

(Oh, and we use the Apogees with an HD3 rig. Integrates just fine.)
Old 19th November 2009
  #14
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
The Digi stuff sounds like someone waving a sheet of paper attached to a pillow in front of the speakers. Maybe its a white flag?
Seriously going to compile a book of your quotes. Kinda not kidding.

The Lester Bangs of modern audio.

- c
Old 19th November 2009
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Seriously going to compile a book of your quotes. Kinda not kidding.

The Lester Bangs of modern audio.

- c
You give me too much cred bro; Lester Bangs wrote with immortal ink.

"I'll probably never produce a masterpiece, but so what? I feel I have a Sound aborning, which is my own, and that Sound if erratic is still my greatest pride, because I would rather write like a dancer shaking my ass to boogaloo inside my head, and perhaps reach only readers who like to use books to shake their asses, than to be or write for the man cloistered in a closet somewhere reading Aeschylus while this stupefying world careens crazily past his waxy windows toward its last raving sooty feedback pirouette." (Lester Bangs, "A Quick Trip Through My Adolescence", 1968)
Old 19th November 2009
  #16
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GYang's Avatar
Apogee 16X series is proven standard for rock/pop etc.
Great solid sound, a bit less neutral than Lavry/Benchmark/Prism, but sounds right.
Old 23rd November 2009
  #17
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Rosetta 800: Headphone monitoring

So I picked up a Apogee Rosetta 800 which I'm using with a firewire card. I am going to use a DB25 to XLR male cable on the outputs of it. This will interface to my monitors easily with a xlr to RCA converter. I was wondering what people are doing for their headphone monitoring system (how are you interfacing to the Rosetta?). I don't want to get a Mackie Big knob. I've heard that it colors the sound. Ideally I'd just want to go directly to a headphone amp. I'm just wondering what other people are doing.
Old 23rd November 2009
  #18
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Marcocet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
So I picked up a Apogee Rosetta 800 which I'm using with a firewire card. I am going to use a DB25 to XLR male cable on the outputs of it. This will interface to my monitors easily with a xlr to RCA converter. I was wondering what people are doing for their headphone monitoring system (how are you interfacing to the Rosetta?). I don't want to get a Mackie Big knob. I've heard that it colors the sound. Ideally I'd just want to go directly to a headphone amp. I'm just wondering what other people are doing.
It pays to have some sort of control other than the master fader in the box. On the low end the Presonus stuff does a great job and won't eat your wallet. Congrats on the new converters!

I didn't get to chime in earlier, but I must say that though I think converters and clocking can make a surprisingly huge difference I don't think you'd be dissapointed with either choice. Personally I use a combination of AD/DA 16X and Rosettas with a Isochrone clock and I think I'm in heaven...
Old 23rd November 2009
  #19
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loveinoctober's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcocet View Post
It pays to have some sort of control other than the master fader in the box. On the low end the Presonus stuff does a great job and won't eat your wallet. Congrats on the new converters!

I didn't get to chime in earlier, but I must say that though I think converters and clocking can make a surprisingly huge difference I don't think you'd be dissapointed with either choice. Personally I use a combination of AD/DA 16X and Rosettas with a Isochrone clock and I think I'm in heaven...
Hey,

I think I'm going to try the Furman HA-6AB for my headphone monitors. Seems like a good little unit, and it has XLR inputs on the back, and it has a biult in power amp for near-field monitors.
Old 23rd November 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
 

WOW, alot of comments and few about the 16x vs Lynx

MOST IMPORTANTLY: I think if your in between the 16x and the Lynx, i'd probably go with the Apogee 16x. The 16x just a great converter and i love how it sounds. I own the Lynx and its a step up from the Rosetta.

However, if you were looking to save a grand or so and drop it to 8 channels, i'd definitely pick up the aurora 8 over the Rosetta. Both of these converters are great, but lynx offers their top quality in an 8 channel unit for less money. I wouldn't mess with the Rosetta and a big ben. You'll end up spending more money. The clock on the Lynx is incredible to me so that saves you from having to buy a seperate unit.

Best Wishes
Old 23rd November 2009
  #21
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tapehiss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Seriously going to compile a book of your quotes. Kinda not kidding.

The Lester Bangs of modern audio.

- c


ITS TRUE. roc mixwell not only is extremely helpful and provides everyone with great imformation, he does it in a way that would be interesting even for non engineers to read.
the force is strong with this young patawa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 23rd November 2009
  #22
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 

Dont rule out the Lynx Aurora 8. I love the sound of lynx conversion - no nonsense.
Old 28th November 2009
  #23
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pilopio's Avatar
 

Great song!! I like it..
Old 28th November 2009
  #24
Lives for gear
Rosetta 800 and aurora are very similar in quality
AD16x is much better than both
Old 12th February 2019
  #25
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinoctober View Post
Hello All,

So I've been thinking about upgrading my D/A converters before my band records our next album this spring. I'm looking at the Apogee AD16X (and I haven't ruled out the Rosetta 800 either) or the Lynx Aurora. My band does indie dance rock. I attached a demo of the material so you can get an idea what we're talking about.

My signal chain is great minus the A/D converter.

Real Traps room tuning ---> Great Mic Collection ---> Neve/API Preamps ---> 003 Rack ---> PT LE (I run it on a Macbook via firewire)

So I'm thinking about switching platforms to Logic Pro 9. I don't want to upgrade to PT HD because I don't use many plugins (I'm an outboard guy), so that seems like it would be a waste of money to me. Sometimes we track drums at other studios/rooms to get different sounds, but it shouldn't be a problem bouncing back and forth between Logic and PT, right?

I'd like to continue using my firewire/macbook setup. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on what converter you think I should get and why. Please let me know if you work in the indie rock genre as well. Thanks in advance.
Totally random. 10 years on from this post I cam across it as im looking at Lynx v Apogee and have sat and listened to that song three times in a row.
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