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Waves V-Comp vs. Hardware Neve 2254?
Old 8th August 2010
  #31
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syra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobymusic View Post
What I meant is that:
1. vintage equipment varies so much, even from one hardware unit to the next
2. your 2254 has been modified
3. so far no software successfully modeled the effect input and output transformers have on the spectrum of the hardware and other stray effects. But there are many software models that faithfully recreate the way the hardware "reacts" to a signal. Does this make the software useless??

So making a categorical claim like "the V-Comp does not sound like a 2254" is simply misleading as we have no idea how experienced you are in using equipment, what converters you use, what termination you use to go in and out of your hardware, at what level you're using your equipment and whether your modified 2254 still sounds anything like a 2254 in original condition sounded like. Nor do we know how the hardware sounded that Waves used as their model for the V-Comp.

I don't mean to attack you personally, I just would prefer if people would be more careful about their claims - and explain for instance that their hardware sounds very different to the software in this or that way.

There is just so much uneducated discussion going on at gearslutz, it sometimes drives me mad. I personally like the V-Comp software, it's a very very useful tool in my arsenal. Just take a look at the claim from "Stitch333" - how useful is that?

Sorry to vent, but i believe stuff like this drives qualified people away from gearslutz.
In theory, good points tobymusic. In practice, the Vcomp does not sound very close to a 2254. There is no ifs or buts. People who used the hardware find it obvious. I heard the samples alphablast posted before he took them down. The difference is the same as in my 2254Es. Waves 2254 sounds too dark without any clarity... maybe trying to sell the dark "vintage" sound to their clients. Too bad its not real. They did a better job with the Urei emulations.

Is the Vcomp very usable and a good tool to have? Yes. If it was called the ABCDComp would I have ever guessed its a 2254 emulation based on its sound? No.
Old 8th August 2010
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post
If it was called the ABCDComp would I have ever guessed its a 2254 emulation based on its sound? No.
thumbsup

It's an OK plug but I rarely use it, it's very noisy as well. I prefer the CLA compressors from Waves, I think they come a lot closer to the original.
Old 8th August 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post

If you count the comps used when tracking, I'm easily past 32
32? are the bands you record that inconsistent?
how many instruments do your artists tend to record?
wow 32..... I wish I had that much money
Old 8th August 2010
  #34
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Surbitone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
any plug vs any hardware
0 : 1

I'm a hardware nut. But that is total ****ing bollocks.
Old 9th August 2010
  #35
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Gie-Sound's Avatar
Some plugins come closer to the original than others, but V-comp is not very close if you ask me.
Useable plugin? Yes.
Close to a real 2254? No.
Old 10th August 2010
  #36
Umm!

I don't know about you but I have personally found that the more digital you go the more real vintage hardware comps tubes and transformers you actually need.
Old 10th August 2010
  #37
Gear Addict
 
FredrikCarno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
telling from every waves plugin i compared to the original, i would not expect it to sound remotely close. it might be still very usefull. but it wont be able to simulate those transformers. only attack and release times. but like you said in your post...if its well recorded its not that important. knowing you work so far i guess you'll do just fine without one :-)
Useful is the key word not the same by a long shot but both extremley useful
Old 10th August 2010
  #38
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OceanMan's Avatar
 

Although I think everyone would agree that digital/plug ins are an entirely different animal, which emulations, if any, would you say are the most accurate in reproducing the hardware? Opinions...........
Old 10th August 2010
  #39
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FredrikCarno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMan View Post
Although I think everyone would agree that digital/plug ins are an entirely different animal, which emulations, if any, would you say are the most accurate in reproducing the hardware? Opinions...........
some eq's emulations are pretty close.. can't think of one of the top of head though
Old 10th August 2010
  #40
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quadrafunk's Avatar
 

Waves makes some good stuff, but there's no substitute for running audio through wires and gear.
Old 10th August 2010
  #41
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Waves V-Comp vs. Hardware Neve 2254?

I A/B'd the Waves 2254 to the real thing.
no comparison.
did the same with their Blue stripe and 1176 blackface and the "Puigchild"..nah ah tutt
You see guys like CLA swapping out the hardware yet?
nope.

Waves[and CLA] are banking on the huge population of software guys who don't have the real deal to compare.
Old 10th August 2010
  #42
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quadrafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Waves[and CLA] are banking on the huge population of software guys who don't have the real deal to compare.
...or the money to afford the real deal. I do like the fact that the plugs do a great job, even if they don't sound like the hardware.
Old 10th August 2010
  #43
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadrafunk View Post
...or the money to afford the real deal. I do like the fact that the plugs do a great job, even if they don't sound like the hardware.
If you're happy with the plug ins that's great.

regarding the OP's original question,no they don't sound the same and I think it's silly to market this stuff to be accurate repros of the hardware.
but like I said they're marketing this stuff to people who most likely don't have a real reference..and its making them money as a result.
Old 10th August 2010
  #44
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FredrikCarno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
If you're happy with the plug ins that's great.

regarding the OP's original question,no they don't sound the same and I think it's silly to market this stuff to be accurate repros of the hardware.
but like I said they're marketing this stuff to people who most likely don't have a real reference..and its making them money as a result.
Silly is the word.. but in todays climate in the music business they're ablsolutley necessary and an essential tool for many...
Old 10th August 2010
  #45
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Funkwerk's Avatar
 

I think it all depends on the setup you're using.

If you have crappy converters (especially on the AD side) with cheap cabling i would say that it is possible you'd like a plugin version better.
Routing a signal in and out the "box" could in this case allready diminish the quality of the audio in such a way that when monitoring you only actually hear a small percent of the actual quality of the hardware.

It's like mixing fine wine with water if you will.

I've worked for years only in the box when I had no money to invest in hardware. It's a lot of fun and there are plugins doing stuff hardware can't replicate. But the same goes the other way around.

I think it's senseless to invest a big pile of money into 1 hardware unit if you're not going to invest in a very high quality converter and cabling.
If you just got the cash for the hardware unit, then don't and seek out some really good sounding and cool plugins, you'll probable get a lot more efficiency for you're investment.
My 2 cents.
Old 10th August 2010
  #46
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
If you're happy with the plug ins that's great.

regarding the OP's original question,no they don't sound the same and I think it's silly to market this stuff to be accurate repros of the hardware.
but like I said they're marketing this stuff to people who most likely don't have a real reference..and its making them money as a result.
+1

@Surbitone: go read this 4 or 5 times.
Now go and A/B a Bombfactory 'Pultec' plug with an original EQP on some track you are mixing.
Repeat cycle with every plug you have and its corresponding hardware until you can hear the difference.


Cheers!
Old 10th August 2010
  #47
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barryjohns's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
If you're happy with the plug ins that's great.

regarding the OP's original question,no they don't sound the same and I think it's silly to market this stuff to be accurate repros of the hardware.
but like I said they're marketing this stuff to people who most likely don't have a real reference..and its making them money as a result.
The make money, or guys like me get an awesome plugin to allow me to achieve amazing results.
Old 8th October 2010
  #48
Gear Addict
 
B-sharp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I A/B'd the Waves 2254 to the real thing.
no comparison.
did the same with their Blue stripe and 1176 blackface and the "Puigchild"..nah ah tutt
You see guys like CLA swapping out the hardware yet?
nope.

Waves[and CLA] are banking on the huge population of software guys who don't have the real deal to compare.
It's true, but every unit sounds pretty different. There have actually been a lot of plugs that fool people in blind tests against the hardware. Even really good software compressors tend to be a little weak on the transients though compared to hardware.
Old 8th October 2010
  #49
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-sharp View Post
It's true, but every unit sounds pretty different. There have actually been a lot of plugs that fool people in blind tests against the hardware. Even really good software compressors tend to be a little weak on the transients though compared to hardware.
In my experience, that is true only with certain "sweet spot" settings. Set up the plug and the 'corresponding' hardware in any slightly unconventional or less common combination of switch and dial states and any passing similarity between them rapidly evaporates.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #50
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it's time understand the plugin is standard for all, not hardware
Old 23rd February 2013
  #51
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RedBaaron's Avatar
Kind of off topic, but for those of you who don't care for the Vcomp, try turning the input close to all the way down, the output all the way up, and the ratio at around 3 or 4:1. It has a nice puffy, gluey quality that way.

That said, i still don't find much use for it...
Old 23rd February 2013
  #52
Gear Addict
I have the V-series and 2254 clones, I think the V-comps are great. They are very usable when I'm mixing and run out of hardware units..
Old 23rd February 2013
  #53
Someone should do a test on here of it, and everyone who holds a strong opinion on the matter should have to do it.
Old 24th February 2013
  #54
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini View Post
I have the V-series and 2254 clones, I think the V-comps are great. They are very usable when I'm mixing and run out of hardware units..
Key - when you RUN OUT OF HARDWARE...

If they were really that great then you would use them first... Plugs have recall, many more instances etc.

Its funny, anyone who owns 2254s knows damn well the effect they have on a signal, compression aside, that is EXACTLY the thing plugs have difficulty reproducing.

And the previous poster Toby arguing the unit was modded... Right, like the limiter release mod changes everything.

Ridiculous.

I compared them and thought its not even close to the sonic imprint.

I also compared the waves Eddie kramer helios to my vintage lustraphone units- hilarious... Literally.

But sure... some BS mp3 comparison on Gearslutz will prove otherwise.
Old 24th February 2013
  #55
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Jorg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
any plug vs any hardware
0 : 1
Old 24th February 2013
  #56
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
Key - when you RUN OUT OF HARDWARE...

If they were really that great then you would use them first... Plugs have recall, many more instances etc.
Wow, Thanks so much captain obvious, where would I be without this pearl of wisdom. You have a bright future, don't give up..
Old 24th February 2013
  #57
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Joram's Avatar
 

I didn't know the v-comp was supposed to be a virtual 2254e in the first place. The sound is quite different!
Old 24th February 2013
  #58
Gear Nut
 

Just another 2254 hardware owner (matched pair of the new AMS reissue's)
To my ears the plug sounds nothing like em.. I wouldn't have even guessed they were trying to model a 2254 if I was going by my ears. Just my 2c
Old 24th February 2013
  #59
there is not a single plugin that does magic. but there are a lot of good and solid plugins that get the work done.

the V sounds totally different then the Neve.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk
Old 8th November 2019
  #60
Here for the gear
 

Of course this is a super old thread but...

What I find interesting is, so much time spent on that which is not visible. Everyone has an opinion I guess...but intimately knowing your gear is the key. Take for example a cajon. I have 2, 1 Di Gregorio and a Selah, they are both great but the actual differences are incredible in tone, the way they are played (the selah likes being played softer). Then I come to recording, I have 3 ways to record these 'boxes' and at the top of the list is a cheap superlux cardioid boundary pair (through analysis plus pro cable). Then the question, how am I loading them? To me, they 'sound' best loaded at 4k to me, 10k is fizzy and 600 ohm is dark with built in compression...what about proximity...hmm testing says 200mm...what Im saying is, most of the magic is in what you capture, the performance, the vib, the interaction and the pallet of the front end. If you are relying on some soft of magic wand to tap, you are wasting your time....spend hours on a piece of gear be it plugin, hardware or whatever but please, dont tell me its going to make everything 'good'. By the time it gets through mastering and you feel so proud of your -6db headroom...it actually means absolutely nothing and the only left will be the magic of the music, the expression and performance.
Work with what you have...thats whats makes things great; connection and people...without that, music is of course just an exercise...not a journey.
Waves stuff makes everything soft to my ears...UAD does a good job, but these are all part of the pallet and useful for create aural bokeh...start painting instead of talking; its a poor image trying to get everything clear.

In summary what Im saying is: compression is a tool to redefine the space and is identical to HDR compression in photography (except you can clearly see it); hardware or software makes NO difference if you arent using it with vision, understanding and competence to complete that vision.
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