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KM 84 on snare (I'm afraid)
Old 10th November 2009
  #1
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paul999's Avatar
 

KM 84 on snare (I'm afraid)

I have a pair of km84's that I use for O.H's, acoustic guitars...the list goes on and on and on. I have read several times that people are using them on snare. I didn't think they could handle this type of SPL. Where are people placing them? Should I be so terrified of this?

Thanks
Old 10th November 2009
  #2
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul999 View Post
I have a pair of km84's that I use for O.H's, acoustic guitars...the list goes on and on and on. I have read several times that people are using them on snare. I didn't think they could handle this type of SPL. Where are people placing them? Should I be so terrified of this?

Thanks

Yes, you should be terrified. Depends on the drummer, but I'd never put one of my 84's on snare. There's always the chance of a stray stick, etc.. I love the sound though. I found that the MXL991/604 sounds in some ways better (if you're looking for some brightness on the top head) and they are throw away cheap, so when I put a SDC on the top head of the snare, that gets the nod.
Old 10th November 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Don't be afraid unless the drummer is so inaccurate that he might hit it.

I usually tape it to a 57 and that means the 57 is more in the line of fire.

of course you need to use the pad.
Old 10th November 2009
  #4
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Vintageblue02's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Yes, you should be terrified. Depends on the drummer, but I'd never put one of my 84's on snare. There's always the chance of a stray stick, etc.. I love the sound though. I found that the MXL991/604 sounds in some ways better (if you're looking for some brightness on the top head) and they are throw away cheap, so when I put a SDC on the top head of the snare, that gets the nod.

thumbsup+1 I have a few MXL SDC '84 knock offs: 551, V67n, 604. & they all handle the SPLs nicely as well as being flat in the 100Hz region.

Another surefire brilliant mic I use is the AKG C2000. Built like a tank and it pretty much has a supercardioid pattern as well as built in pad. (I've never had to use the pad on snare though)
Old 10th November 2009
  #5
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drBill's Avatar
PS - paul, if you want to hear the 84 vs 991/604 vs 451 vs other dynamics / LDC's you can hear it here:

Drum Mic Madness!!!!

Cheers,

bp
Old 10th November 2009
  #6
I've been told by a couple of good engineers that they sound nicest when recording a drummer playing quieter than normal..... like lot's of the guys in the 70's did.
But I suppose it's all subjective.
I would be worried about stick damage, unless you can really trust the drummer.
Old 10th November 2009
  #7
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I am using it right now on a snare, coupled with a Stedman.
Beautiful combo.thumbsup
Old 10th November 2009
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

I did a session where the engineer put an Oktava MC-012 on the bottom of a fat, loose snare, and it sounded great. Not quite a KM84 but the same kind of idea.

As for myself, I'd probably never put anything but a typical dynamic on snare top or bottom (SM57, I5, M201, etc).
Old 10th November 2009
  #9
Gear Nut
 
John Nonjohn's Avatar
 

KM-84 on snare sounds great! If you trust the drummer won't hit it, put it on snare top. If you can't trust the drummer, then put it on snare bottom. Try a Beyer M-201 on whichever side of the snare you don't put the KM-84 on! That's your snare sound--one mic on top of the snare, and one mic on the bottom of the snare! Polarity reverse the bottom snare mic! Don't forget to record it!
Old 10th November 2009
  #10
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

1. KM84 sounds great on snare.
2. Don't do it.
Old 10th November 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
A 57 to shield the 84 - like it

I like the idea of using the 57 as a shield for the km84. That's a good application for the 57. Good idea.
Old 10th November 2009
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Using the mic that will give you the best sound is a difficult perspective to deny.
Old 10th November 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
well, in answer to your actual QUESTION,
the KM84 can take the SPL level just fine if its pad is engaged.

I routinely us it literally a few inches from where the stick hits the head.

and just as often with extremely loud, hard hitters


I like the idea of taping it to the underside of a 57 for protection!
just don't plug the 57 in... this may mean I have finally figured a use for a 57 on snare!
Old 10th November 2009
  #14
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
Using the mic that will give you the best sound is a difficult perspective to deny.
I remember an interesting "perspective" I had once. I saw my C412 go flying across the room in pieces from my vantage point in the control room. My best client had talked me into using it on the snare because the snare was so important to this song and his drummer was so accurate that he would never hit it....etc......It's interesting ONCE.
Old 10th November 2009
  #15
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Sigma's Avatar
i used km 84's on rack toms for years -10 dB pad in
Old 10th November 2009
  #16
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drBill's Avatar
Final Solution :

If you're still charging $250 per hour, have superstar talent in, and bought a dozen km84's while they were "old used mics" at $200 a pop, then yes, by all means use them and bill the client if they trash one.

If you're charging $40 per hour, have a bunch of knuckleheads as clients, and bought 2 KM84's with your kids college fund when they were already $1000 + per mic, then no, don't put them on snare.

Now, wasn't that easy? heh heh
Old 10th November 2009
  #17
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lowswing's Avatar
 

I ALWAYS use km86 (multi pattern km84) on snare, you have to use the pad and a pre with some headroom but it sounds fantastic!
Old 10th November 2009
  #18
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paul999's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Final Solution :

If you're still charging $250 per hour, have superstar talent in, and bought a dozen km84's while they were "old used mics" at $200 a pop, then yes, by all means use them and bill the client if they trash one.

If you're charging $40 per hour, have a bunch of knuckleheads as clients, and bought 2 KM84's with your kids college fund when they were already $1000 + per mic, then no, don't put them on snare.

Now, wasn't that easy? heh heh
I'm in between the 2 example's you gave. It's not my kids college fund but I paid $1000 each and the serial numbers are sequential. I think I will test the km84. I may buy another if I like it just for snare. Anyone try a km184 on snare?

I will check out your massive drum shoot out tomorrow. Can't wait!
Old 10th November 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 

km84 is my favorite snare drum mic. the only mic i know that really captures the snare flawless. just install it slightly outside the rim pointing at the middle and you are rather safe.
Old 10th November 2009
  #20
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul999 View Post
I have a pair of km84's that I use for O.H's, acoustic guitars...the list goes on and on and on. I have read several times that people are using them on snare. I didn't think they could handle this type of SPL. Where are people placing them? Should I be so terrified of this?
If the capsule is in good condition and the 10db pad is in the circuit you shouldn't have a problem.

If the drummer plays well enough to warrant the use of a KM-84 then the drummer most probably won't hit the KM-84. If you're working with a crap drummer that might hit it, then you can always aim it at the shell of the drum instead of the top of the head... or use a 57 because the drummer probably isn't worth using a mic of that caliber.

Peace.
Old 10th November 2009
  #21
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

i've never had a drummer hit a snare mic. Tom mic, overheads - yes. But snare mic - no. It's just never in a position where they can!! What are you guys doing? Putting it in the middle ? heh
Old 10th November 2009
  #22
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
km84 is my favorite snare drum mic. the only mic i know that really captures the snare flawless. just install it slightly outside the rim pointing at the middle and you are rather safe.
thats me all over. And move the hats.
Old 10th November 2009
  #23
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paul999's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
If the drummer plays well enough to warrant the use of a KM-84 then the drummer most probably won't hit the KM-84. .
I'll probably still use the 57 as a shield or put it on the side as suggested.
Old 10th November 2009
  #24
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Ca$h Marty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattct View Post
Don't be afraid unless the drummer is so inaccurate that he might hit it.

I usually tape it to a 57 and that means the 57 is more in the line of fire.

of course you need to use the pad.
Exactly what I have done - works great, you can blend the two mics with no phase interference.
Old 10th November 2009
  #25
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
i've never had a drummer hit a snare mic.
Perhaps you need to work with shittier drummers I haven't seen it done in years, but when I was "low man on the totem pole" during the 80's I had lots of guys whack snare mics... needless to say they're doing what they should be doing in the music industry now [they're consumers].
Old 10th November 2009
  #26
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JulianFernandez's Avatar
 

I don´t understand the whole point of shitty drummers...

If you´re recording an underdevelop drummer, no matter which mic you use it will sound bad... That´s a fact. Big chances he/she can´t tune the drum (or even have 2 or 3 snares to choose from)... So, in that case, just use a 57 and keep your 84 in the locker...
Old 10th November 2009
  #27
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paul999's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
PS - paul, if you want to hear the 84 vs 991/604 vs 451 vs other dynamics / LDC's you can hear it here:

Drum Mic Madness!!!!

Cheers,

bp
That is a seriously cool thread! Very nice work
Unfortunately I liked the km84 the best on snare. I recognized the first 3 right away. Most of my drummers wouldn't hit the mic.

I noticed a little bit of distortion on the km84 clip during the first few hits. Was that the pre or the mic itself. It kinda sounded like the mic but it is tough to tell.
Old 10th November 2009
  #28
Don't be afraid, Rather than point the mic down on the snare, act as if you're micing the shell, then raise
the mic so the capsule is poking out over the rim. the mic will be back at least an inch from the drum. The drummer will have to aim for it to hit it. And you get way less of the top head ring
Old 10th November 2009
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Its a mic ! not the bloody crown jewels !!!
Old 10th November 2009
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
Don't be afraid, Rather than point the mic down on the snare, act as if you're micing the shell, then raise
the mic so the capsule is poking out over the rim. the mic will be back at least an inch from the drum. The drummer will have to aim for it to hit it. And you get way less of the top head ring
exactly!
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