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ULN 8 vs. Prismsound Orpheus vs AD16X +DA16X
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #331
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The hardware compliment I will be taking along with me is modest but well-chosen, I think.

A portable rack w/
a Distressor
a UBK Fatso
a UBK Clariphonic (on its way, hasn't arrived.)

A lunchbox w/

EM PEQ
Electrodyne 511
Shadow Hills Vandergraph
API 527 (on its way)
a Standard Audio Level-Or (for parallel compression)


I have one last purchase, I think.

I'm wondering

(a) whether software (either Native, UAD, or Metric Halo) will eventually obviate my analog outboard in my particular production process. We'll see. I'm open to it, but extremely skeptical that some of this stuff I love has a peer in the digital world. [I'm not anti-digital; I own nearly every plug-in in the known universe.]

I have trouble picturing myself being one of these all-Metric-Halo-/-no-analog-outboard guys, but... wow, that would sure save me a lot of dough and setup headache! We shall see...

(b) how easy it will be to do mixes with zero-latency/parallel compression with my rig. This is my main draw to the Halo world. Elegantly recallable mixes w/ integrated analog & digital wizardry, full fidelity, and no funny business with timing/phase issues.

Lots to learn. Lots to figure out.

- c
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #332
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Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Where are all those MH tutorials so one could dig in deep into the hardware + software ??

And I really wish MH would develop a MIO console controller (hardware) in partnership with Euphonix or Mackie or whoever.

MH, are you listening ?
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #333
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swafford's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE=Googlyman;5069031]Where are all those MH tutorials so one could dig in deep into the hardware + software ??
/QUOTE]

4 clicks and 30 seconds away.

Metric Halo Technotes
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #334
Gear Addict
 
Allen Rowand's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlyman View Post
And I really wish MH would develop a MIO console controller (hardware) in partnership with Euphonix or Mackie or whoever.

MH, are you listening ?
We support EuCon and Mackie MCU currently.

Allen
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #335
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Melgueil's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlyman View Post
Where are all those MH tutorials so one could dig in deep into the hardware + software ??

And I really wish MH would develop a MIO console controller (hardware) in partnership with Euphonix or Mackie or whoever.

MH, are you listening ?
It's here and they are. Watch for Euphonix Artist series increased fucntionality. My bet is there. Why reinvent the wheel. If they open up plug in control on the arist series - look out. Having those parameters splay across 16 or 24 channels - each with it's own individual continuous programable knob. I can imagine that one, Then....?

Btw - Silver: been down that path, intellectually anyway, Thought about just that.

in my heart of hearts, I can't see a 100% virtual world like that. Do I ever want it, do I EVER want to beleive it can be done, just don't see it. I want to track (read print) compression on the way in. Thus, I also have my eye on the 527 for just that purpose.

Though I did wonder (since I have a ULN-2) - could I actually track with the MH compressor on the way in - it;s not really a plug in that sense - it's in the hardware - if I am thinking through that one correctly. If all I am after is the "effect" no latency while tracking, perhaps. Not sure, - haven't tried it, I'll play around with that. Interesting.

Back to the real world....still thinking about that 527 though...that's API, that's classic, no emulation, hardware compression. There is no "not sure" there.

So, don't need a 2 bus, I'll do that ITB, and an outboard compressor may be all I need there - perhaps just maybe an outboard eq or channel strip, but not much more.

We're close I believe. Close, but not quite home yet.
cdlt
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #336
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swafford's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Rowand View Post
We support EuCon and Mackie MCU currently.

Allen
Well, sure there's that, but will it wash my car?
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #337
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Allen Rowand's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Well, sure there's that, but will it wash my car?
Euphonix will have to add the API before we can take advantage of it.

Allen
Old 3rd February 2010 | Show parent
  #338
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgueil View Post
Though I did wonder (since I have a ULN-2) - could I actually track with the MH compressor on the way in - it;s not really a plug in that sense - it's in the hardware - if I am thinking through that one correctly. If all I am after is the "effect" no latency while tracking, perhaps. Not sure, - haven't tried it, I'll play around with that. Interesting.
Well, the thing to do with this would be try it out (and not wonder about it) -- and then report back.

Now, you might say -- "But what if it doesn't work out; I will have destroyed my track -- since I don't have time to just experiment, I can't do on something that counts!". On the contrary -- if you use both pre- and post- sends in the mixer on the channel that you are compressing on the way in, you can record both the uncompressed and compressed version of the audio. If your compression experiment works out, then great -- you have your compressed track and you can move on. If the experiment doesn't work out then you can use the uncompressed track and toss the experimental track. Even better -- since the two tracks are time aligned you can effectively do parallel compression after the fact by mixing both together....

Best regards,
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #339
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paulrk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Well, the thing to do with this would be try it out (and not wonder about it) -- and then report back.

Now, you might say -- "But what if it doesn't work out; I will have destroyed my track -- since I don't have time to just experiment, I can't do on something that counts!". On the contrary -- if you use both pre- and post- sends in the mixer on the channel that you are compressing on the way in, you can record both the uncompressed and compressed version of the audio. If your compression experiment works out, then great -- you have your compressed track and you can move on. If the experiment doesn't work out then you can use the uncompressed track and toss the experimental track. Even better -- since the two tracks are time aligned you can effectively do parallel compression after the fact by mixing both together....

Best regards,
BJ-

Would this, with a ULN-8 in Mic S-R mode, be possible? Is the first direct
out on the MIO channels pre-send? Or is this only possible using the MIO Compressor plugin?




Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #340
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrk View Post
BJ-
Would this, with a ULN-8 in Mic S-R mode, be possible? Is the first direct
out on the MIO channels pre-send? Or is this only possible using the MIO Compressor plugin?
You could do it by using two ADC channels (you could select Mic on Analog 1, run send 1 out to the analog comp, return the comp to Analog 2, and select line in for Analog 2.)

But the sends in the mixer are in the digital domain post ADC.

Best regards,
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #341
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Little things I'm liking in my very, very slow but wonderful discovery of the ULN8 world:

really, nice strong clean headphone amplifier!

YES!

- c
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #342
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Guitar Zero's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My ULN-2 arrived! Uh oh, DOA. Totally bummed for now. Guess I'll have to wait to join the happy M.H. cheerleading squad.
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #343
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henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Damn. REALLY???
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #344
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Guitar Zero's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Damn. REALLY???
Unfortunately, yep. Sent it back today.
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #345
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henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ah. Sorry man. That's a real bummer.
Old 4th February 2010 | Show parent
  #346
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Guitar Zero's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Ah. Sorry man. That's a real bummer.
Thanks for the shoulder to cry on!
Old 5th February 2010 | Show parent
  #347
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paulrk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
You could do it by using two ADC channels (you could select Mic on Analog 1, run send 1 out to the analog comp, return the comp to Analog 2, and select line in for Analog 2.)

But the sends in the mixer are in the digital domain post ADC.

Best regards,
I see. Thanks for the explanation. Is there latency to be concerned about due to the D/A and subsequent A/D conversions involved in what you described? Or is it too little to be concerned about?

Thanks
Old 5th February 2010 | Show parent
  #348
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrk View Post
I see. Thanks for the explanation. Is there latency to be concerned about due to the D/A and subsequent A/D conversions involved in what you described? Or is it too little to be concerned about?
There are no extra A/D steps, and no D/A steps. The signal path looks like this:

Source --> Mic Pre 1 -------------------------------> A/D 1
\----->Send 1

Send 1 ---> External Processing ---> Line 2 ---> A/D 2

Assuming that the external processing is analog, there is essentially no latency; the send ->process -> return all happens in the analog domain.

If the external processing has latency, you would need to measure that and then insert a MIODelay on the Analog 1 in channel to compensate.

Hope this helps!
Old 5th February 2010 | Show parent
  #349
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Oops -- the ascii art doesn't work to well in the forum. The Send 1 is supposed to be split off post mic-pre.
Old 6th February 2010 | Show parent
  #350
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paulrk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
There are no extra A/D steps, and no D/A steps. The signal path looks like this:

Source --> Mic Pre 1 -------------------------------> A/D 1
\----->Send 1

Send 1 ---> External Processing ---> Line 2 ---> A/D 2

Assuming that the external processing is analog, there is essentially no latency; the send ->process -> return all happens in the analog domain.

If the external processing has latency, you would need to measure that and then insert a MIODelay on the Analog 1 in channel to compensate.

Hope this helps!

Thanks BJ! Helps a lot, in fact. Now, for somewhat of a followup question. Do I need to be worried about the same issue in the digital domain betweeny DAW and the MIO console? If I route sound from my DAW (thru some plugs) into the MIO, do I need to adjust for latency introduced on some tracks by the DAW plugs?

Sorry for pestering you so much, I'm still attempting to get my head all the way around this new paradigm!

Thanks
Old 6th February 2010 | Show parent
  #351
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's officially snowmageddon here in DC, as I'm sure you've heard.

So I'm inside getting further acquainted w/ the ULN8.

It's pretty jawdropping stuff. I'm know computer tech, but I really don't even understand how some of this stuff is even possible.

- c
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #352
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Silver,
I have a question if you would be so kind to offer an opinion. I know the ULN-8 offers a lot more than the Orpheus(costs more too), but strictly in terms of the A/D converters, how do they compare? Another way of asking this would be, if both boxes were the same price and only offered 8 A/D and 8 D/A converters, which would you own? In the bit of reading I have done in search for a new interface, it seems you may be the only poster who has direct experience with both boxes. Thanks!!

Another question I have regarding the ULN-8 is with the MIO mixer. Lots of people say it sounds different/better than other DAW mixers. Has anyone verified this with a null test?
Thanks,
Sean
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #353
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrk View Post
Thanks BJ! Helps a lot, in fact. Now, for somewhat of a followup question. Do I need to be worried about the same issue in the digital domain betweeny DAW and the MIO console? If I route sound from my DAW (thru some plugs) into the MIO, do I need to adjust for latency introduced on some tracks by the DAW plugs?
It depends on the host. If the host has automatic delay compensation and your plugs report their latencies properly then it should be automatic and you don't have to worry about it. If your host doesn't have ADC, then you will be having alignment problems with or without the MIO, so the MIO doesn't change the equation. I think that all (or virtually all) of the native CoreAudio based DAWs have ADC.

Best regards,
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #354
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Melgueil's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Well, the thing to do with this would be try it out (and not wonder about it) -- and then report back.
Best regards,
Would have, and indeed will ......the stuff life throws at you.

Just moved and my studio is all broken down now as I wait for the carpenter to come back in next week. My interaction with gear over the past two weeks has been two frustrating attempts at tracking DI and mixing in the kitchen. Meanwhile, I live vicariously on Gearslutz.

I do look forward to setting aside some time to really get to the MIO. Right now I am mixing in Logic exclusively.
cdlt
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #355
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Cool -- I was just pointing out that the primary reason to NOT do this is the potential damage that could be done -- thus blowing an otherwise good take. But with the MIO you can arrange it so that risk is not present...

Best regards,
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #356
Gear Maniac
 
paulrk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
It depends on the host. If the host has automatic delay compensation and your plugs report their latencies properly then it should be automatic and you don't have to worry about it. If your host doesn't have ADC, then you will be having alignment problems with or without the MIO, so the MIO doesn't change the equation. I think that all (or virtually all) of the native CoreAudio based DAWs have ADC.

Best regards,
Gotcha. Thanks again for all the help. One of the things I love about M-H is the presence online, whether via email or here on the boards. Love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
It's officially snowmageddon here in DC, as I'm sure you've heard.

So I'm inside getting further acquainted w/ the ULN8.

It's pretty jawdropping stuff. I'm know computer tech, but I really don't even understand how some of this stuff is even possible.

- c
I know, right? Pretty amazing.... At least you have a good toy to occupy while you're locked inside waiting out the snow!
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #357
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5 View Post
Hey Silver,
I have a question if you would be so kind to offer an opinion. I know the ULN-8 offers a lot more than the Orpheus(costs more too), but strictly in terms of the A/D converters, how do they compare? Another way of asking this would be, if both boxes were the same price and only offered 8 A/D and 8 D/A converters, which would you own? In the bit of reading I have done in search for a new interface, it seems you may be the only poster who has direct experience with both boxes. Thanks!!
I am unable to detect one shred of qualitative difference. Both sound perfect to me.

The ULN8 has a stronger and better headphone amplifier. But that's about it.

This is really the domain of sonic perfection, both of these things.

- c
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #358
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Very cool. Thanks Silver!!

Sean
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #359
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Side note:

I'm presuming there's a story as to why there is no metrichalo.com

Seems like the obvious domain name, no?

I can never remember the name of the site. Metric Halo doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Someone holding it for ransom?

- c
Old 8th February 2010 | Show parent
  #360
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jslevin's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
I am unable to detect one shred of qualitative difference. Both sound perfect to me.
Man, you are really making my life difficult with statements like this.

On an unrelated note ... and you'll pardon the slight thread-jack I hope ... anyone looking to sell a ULN-2, either 2d or pre-2d? A great musician (and great guy) I know is looking to upgrade his home setup and wants to go this direction. Needs and deserves a great deal.

JSL
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