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Female Microphone Staple
Old 10th May 2003
  #1
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Female Microphone Staple

Going to try and rent some of these this weekend, but for a bread and butta mic mostly for an midrangy airy female voice.
Looking for something maybe close to a old c12.
An older c12 (I believe tracked through old Neve console) sounded better on her voice than vintage 251s, which for some reason didn't seem to open up as much (through Mastering Lab pre).
Used the 149 lots, and I don't hate it (like others seem to), but I'm sure there is better. I don't like how hot it can drive certain preamps.
Can't justify buying a vintage c12 and didn't want to spend much over $2500, however if the E47 can really show it's stuff above and beyond....then....well...gotta do what you gotta do....

(1)-Soundelux E47 (are they in stock anywhere)
(2)-Soundelux U99
(3)-Microtek Gefell UM92.1
(4)-M149
(5)-Brauner Valvet
(6)-Blue Cactus
(7)-C12 VR

Please post your vote if you have experience with these. Thanks
Old 10th May 2003
  #2
Rab
KMR Audio
 
Rab's Avatar
 

I'm rooting for the E47. If this is for a specific vocalist, it's worth A/B-ing it against the Elux251. Both fantastic mics.

Sometimes you can never tell... recently went through a bunch of expensive mics for a female vocal and ended up using an Audio Technica AT4033... I think the artist intends to go on a nice long holiday with the change!
Old 10th May 2003
  #3
Re: Female Microphone Staple

Quote:
Originally posted by doug_hti
Going to try and rent some of these this weekend, but for a bread and butta mic mostly for an midrangy airy female voice.
Looking for something maybe close to a old c12.
An older c12 (I believe tracked through old Neve console) sounded better on her voice than vintage 251s, which for some reason didn't seem to open up as much (through Mastering Lab pre).
Used the 149 lots, and I don't hate it (like others seem to), but I'm sure there is better. I don't like how hot it can drive certain preamps.
Can't justify buying a vintage c12 and didn't want to spend much over $2500, however if the E47 can really show it's stuff above and beyond....then....well...gotta do what you gotta do....

(1)-Soundelux E47 (are they in stock anywhere)
(2)-Soundelux U99
(3)-Microtek Gefell UM92.1
(4)-M149
(5)-Brauner Valvet
(6)-Blue Cactus
(7)-C12 VR

Please post your vote if you have experience with these. Thanks
Doug sorry to disappoint, but my answer is none of the above.

Only a C12 sounds like a C12(that's why its so revered).

Did you EQ the 251 when tracking?(something I always do to add some air).

I think a modern mic that might work and is not on the list is the Sony C-800G. It is a bright sounding mic already and its a modern"staple type" female vocal microphone.

You won't have to EQ it, that's for sure.
Old 10th May 2003
  #4
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Re: Re: Female Microphone Staple

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor

I think a modern mic that might work and is not on the list is the Sony C-800G. It is a bright sounding mic already and its a modern"staple type" female vocal microphone.

You won't have to EQ it, that's for sure.
mmh, beware, the C800g is great with some voices, and a catastrophe with some others, especialy with female voices ...
Try it, but try others as well, this mic is kinda strange with some singers ...

IMHO, as always ...

I had luck with 47fet with female voices needing air. I guess some of the recreations like Brauner PhantomC or soundelux ifet7 would be worth trying

malice
Old 10th May 2003
  #5
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Re: Re: Female Microphone Staple

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Doug sorry to disappoint, but my answer is none of the above.

Only a C12 sounds like a C12(that's why its so revered).

Did you EQ the 251 when tracking?(something I always do to add some air).

I think a modern mic that might work and is not on the list is the Sony C-800G. It is a bright sounding mic already and its a modern"staple type" female vocal microphone.

You won't have to EQ it, that's for sure.
Yeah I meant to put the c800g on. That's beens used on her before, but not on her leads, just on BGVs and I wasn't around before the mix to have a real listen.
I don't mind bright things, as I like em bright, but I don't want to miss out on depth and don't want it to thin out.
What is the street price or used price I would be able to get a hold of one for.
And why do so many people whine about them.

About the 251, no EQ tracking, just in the mix, I believe (I know) the mixer really brought some life to it with the console and the results, ultimately, were just fine, maybe a little pinched upper mids, but that could have been the producing as much as the mic. But I was shocked at how much shelving it can need. However, it reallly takes the EQ very very well.

I don't think I want to buy any sort of 251 or 251remake at this point. There are too many other things to upgrade and I can always easily rent if I need to. I just don't want to rent as much as I am now.

I really just want a fat valve mic that has a lot of depth and minimal proximity effect, capturing the high end air and overtones on a voice or allowing me to pull it out with EQ if needed.
Old 10th May 2003
  #6
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sm-7
Old 10th May 2003
  #7
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littledog's Avatar
 

It sounds nothing like a C12, but then neither do most of your other options:

Lawson L47mp
Old 11th May 2003
  #8
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Yeah I don't have the complete intention to replicate the c12, but just rather that was/is something that works (as it does with a lot of people) well with her tonal qualities. And I'm sure there are others out there that do not resemble the c12 in any way shape or form that may complement her voice.

I still think I want to take a step up from this, but Bill Schnee (who has quite a mic collection) just put my friend on to a GrooveTube microphone, and he is really impressed with it, especially for the cost. I know the Vipre IS something to write home about, is the mic a sleeper?
Old 11th May 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Another great and affordable mic that works great on female vocals is the Beyer 834. It's really a great mic.
Old 11th May 2003
  #10
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
The answer to your 'E-47' question is "yes"... the answer to your micrphone search question is "huh?"

There is no one mic that is right for any vocal... it's singer dependent, it's dependent on the arrangement of the song... it's dependent on the mood and vibe of the singer on any given day, and their interpretation of how to best sing the song on that given day.

There is no "right"... though [unfortunately] there is often a "wrong".

Best of luck with your quest...
Old 11th May 2003
  #11
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I would suggest that some of the mics being recommended here would be pretty disasterous on a female vocal. First thing you possibly want to avoid is anything that is too bright, the Sony is one that immediately springs to mind. Someone else above was mentioning the AT4033, IMHO one of the worst condenser mics I have ever heard, though in a given situation it might work. As Fletcher says above "there is no one right mic", but there are many worth trying.

I see many people in the gearslutz forums talking about really expensive custom and vintage valve mics. Usually these are a lot more esoteric than the mics most of the top studio's are using to record the "Big" artists and "top sellers". It's too easy to forget that what it should be about is capturing a performance on tape, even better if the artist has a great voice or its a great track!


Regards


Roland
Old 11th May 2003
  #12
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The Groove Tubes mic being referred to may be the GT67 multi-pattern valve mic. I got one recently in Digital Village for £349, and I have used it on a few female singers in the last couple of weeks with very pleasing results.
Old 11th May 2003
  #13
Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
I see many people in the gearslutz forums talking about really expensive custom and vintage valve mics. Usually these are a lot more esoteric than the mics most of the top studio's are using to record the "Big" artists and "top sellers".
Regards


Roland
Hey Roland,

This part hasn't changed a bit. Most of the "big" artists are recorded with the best mics(custom valve or vintage mics). Unless you are a Sony artist(in this case you have to record with the Sony mic...just kidding!!!)heh

This is one place you can't skimp.

The one difference is that mic lockers are huge!!! You have more choices to choose from(don't like U47a try U47b or an esoteric mic..how about a M49) and so on.
Old 11th May 2003
  #14
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Roland,

This part hasn't changed a bit. Most of the "big" artists are recorded with the best mics(custom valve or vintage mics). Unless you are a Sony artist(in this case you have to record with the Sony mic...just kidding!!!)heh

This is one place you can't skimp.

The one difference is that mic lockers are huge!!! You have more choices to choose from(don't like U47a try U47b or an esoteric mic..how about a M49) and so on.
I have to say I don't totally agree.

Sure there are a fair number of U47's M49's used for vocals occasionally 251's etc. Load more things like standard U87's used to good effect.

A friend of mine working on a Paul Rodgers album was telling me many of the vocals were recorded using an SM57! Sure I'm not saying that some of these mics are good, very good, however they tend to have bigger fans amongst those that don't have access to them than those that do. The same friend of mine that worked on the Paul Rodgers album was, last month was working in a Swedish studio that had a wonderful vintage mic collection. When they went to try out the many vocal mics they had (several classic Neumans included) they ended up using a £400 CAD mic. He would also tell you that the New M149 is a better mic than an original M49. Personally speaking, (and I have used a lot of esoteric mics ranging from classic neumans to limited issue large diaphram DPA's) you don't need a mic cupboard full of £2,000 + vintage and vintage recreations to get a killer vocal sound, just a good song with a good singer. In the same way I am not advocating the cheap Russian/Chinese capsuled junk mics we see so much of today.

Regards



Roland
Old 11th May 2003
  #15
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Guys, thanks for the suggestions. I understand perfectly well that no single mic is going to cover all the bases.
That being said, this is primarily for a project studio for one singer/songwriter artist that writes and sings professionally.
Most of the time it's sole purpose is for album and songwriting demos and/or preproduction. Actually putting together a functional and efficient project studio has been new territory for me, but well worth the time, money, and efforts. Over the last year or two, I've slowly tried to build up our studio buying only things that make financial sense and that will be used on a regular basis, yet are a none to small compromise in quality. I still plan on doing another descent upgrade in the near future after we've learned and confirmed that it really makes sense to have one and will again, probably ask some opinions. That's why places like gearslutz are great, because the information and opinions that you can get is phenominal. It doesn't mean you'll agree with what others have to say, but it's a great filtering mechanism and starting point and different perspective.
We have and do have the opportunity to always do real albums in regular studios and have mixes done by great guys, etc and that won't change. But songwriters and even singer/songwriters that do it for a living, have a harder time now days if they don't have 24/7 easy access to a descent project studio, to make changes on a moments notice, to keep the same hours, to not have to travel, to only walk 50-100 feet when they are inspired, etc. And doing the math, no matter how much or how little money a person has, it doesn't add up to spend $100/hr on a PT room putting down a song. And as some of you may have experienced, in demo land, that the vocal is arguably the most important thing behind the song (except in rap/hiphop, some pop, where the track really comes in to play as much as the song).
So I'm just looking for suggestions on some of the top mics, to reference as a starting point. I will shoot out some as well. I want to buy something that will hold it's value and has good consistent build quality, and one that I won't feel I need to upgrade in another 6 months. Yet I don't want to spend the kinda dough for a vm1 or 251remake, etc.
I have never heard the Soundelux mics, but continually read good things about them.

Fletcher, good to hear you have the E47s.
Old 12th May 2003
  #16
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by doug_hti
Guys, thanks for the suggestions. I understand perfectly well that no single mic is going to cover all the bases.
That being said, this is primarily for a project studio for one singer/songwriter artist that writes and sings professionally.
Most of the time it's sole purpose is for album and songwriting demos and/or preproduction. Actually putting together a functional and efficient project studio has been new territory for me, but well worth the time, money, and efforts. Over the last year or two, I've slowly tried to build up our studio buying only things that make financial sense and that will be used on a regular basis, yet are a none to small compromise in quality. I still plan on doing another descent upgrade in the near future after we've learned and confirmed that it really makes sense to have one and will again, probably ask some opinions. That's why places like gearslutz are great, because the information and opinions that you can get is phenominal. It doesn't mean you'll agree with what others have to say, but it's a great filtering mechanism and starting point and different perspective.
We have and do have the opportunity to always do real albums in regular studios and have mixes done by great guys, etc and that won't change. But songwriters and even singer/songwriters that do it for a living, have a harder time now days if they don't have 24/7 easy access to a descent project studio, to make changes on a moments notice, to keep the same hours, to not have to travel, to only walk 50-100 feet when they are inspired, etc. And doing the math, no matter how much or how little money a person has, it doesn't add up to spend $100/hr on a PT room putting down a song. And as some of you may have experienced, in demo land, that the vocal is arguably the most important thing behind the song (except in rap/hiphop, some pop, where the track really comes in to play as much as the song).
So I'm just looking for suggestions on some of the top mics, to reference as a starting point. I will shoot out some as well. I want to buy something that will hold it's value and has good consistent build quality, and one that I won't feel I need to upgrade in another 6 months. Yet I don't want to spend the kinda dough for a vm1 or 251remake, etc.
I have never heard the Soundelux mics, but continually read good things about them.

Fletcher, good to hear you have the E47s.
Just one small further suggestion. If as you say this is a project studio primarily for one female artist it would make sense to get the same mic that she is using when cutting the tracks in the pro studio. I'm assuming that there isn't a problem with her vocals on the final albums she is putting out so that would be the obvious place to start.

Regards


Roland
Old 12th May 2003
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
out1ear's Avatar
 

I've used a manley tube reference on female vox..they're great. Very warm...very detailed. I think you can pick one up for about $2200?
Old 12th May 2003
  #18
I'm really enjoying the new Korby Audio "Convertible" mic. It is a new tube mic made by Tracy Korby with 4 hot-swappable "heads" that emulate a U47, C12, 251, and U67M(this emulates a Neumann U67 but with Tracy Korby's mod which gives more low and top end). You can find more info here:

Korby Audio "Convertible"
Old 12th May 2003
  #19
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
Just one small further suggestion. If as you say this is a project studio primarily for one female artist it would make sense to get the same mic that she is using when cutting the tracks in the pro studio. I'm assuming that there isn't a problem with her vocals on the final albums she is putting out so that would be the obvious place to start.

Regards


Roland
much agreed, in which the best results have been an original c12, followed by a tele vintage 251... which = $12-$20k.

I've never seen the Korby, interesting concept. The ad seems to be quite aggressive with the claims. Do you own one?
Old 12th May 2003
  #20
Quote:
Originally posted by doug_hti
I've never seen the Korby, interesting concept. The ad seems to be quite aggressive with the claims. Do you own one?
I do own the Korby mic with the 251 and 67M heads. The 67M is my favorite. I have never used a vintage C12, 251, 47, or 67 so I can't compare the Korby to the originals, however....I have tried basically every new mic that is out there(Soundeluxes, new Neumanns, etc...) and I like the Korby better than anything new I've heard. If you're looking to get a new mic then I definitely think you should consider it.
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