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EMT 250 predelay question Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 24th September 2009
  #1
EMT 250 predelay question

Hi there,

Interesting question - I read the last book from Bruce Swedien - In the studio with Michael Jackson. It is great book and I am big fan of Bruces work. But there is some strange thing about EMT 250. Bruce wrote that he uses at least 120-130 ms pre delay especially on drums and vocals - he uses EMT 250 for this. But how can it be achieved if there is max 60 ms. delay on EMT 250.

Thank you for answer.
Old 24th September 2009
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman View Post
Hi there,

Interesting question - I read the last book from Bruce Swedien - In the studio with Michael Jackson. It is great book and I am big fan of Bruces work. But there is some strange thing about EMT 250. Bruce wrote that he uses at least 120-130 ms pre delay especially on drums and vocals - he uses EMT 250 for this. But how can it be achieved if there is max 60 ms. delay on EMT 250.

Thank you for answer.
Use an outboard predelay. Been doing it for years with reverbs.
Old 24th September 2009
  #3
Thank you very much!!!!!
Old 24th September 2009
  #4
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Also a good trick to use on analogue plates and spring reverbs.
Old 24th September 2009
  #5
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And that EMT 250 is wonderful on drums.
Old 22nd June 2014
  #6
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As far I know, Bruce Swedien does not use EMT for drums. He prefers AMS for this. Also Bruce mentioned that normally he would use longer predelay(>125ms) but EMT250 has shorter one(60ms).
Old 22nd June 2014
  #7
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I use my emt 444 to predelay my emts . Nothing ever sounded better! Period!
Old 22nd June 2014
  #8
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Before digital delay days...

In the days that there were no digital delays yet, we just used a studio tape recorder to get a pre-delay.
Sending an AUX signal to the input of the recorder and then send the playback signal from the recorder to the EMT plate.
The delay was approx. 130mSec on 15" (38 cm/s) and 260 mSec on 7,5" (19 cm/s) using Studer machines, the time governed by the distance between record head and playback head.
Disadvantage was that sometimes during mixing one forgot to rewind the tape.
Engineers that had a electronically variable speed control on their studio tape recorder were in favor: They could really adjust the pre-delay time !!!!

Those were the days……
Old 22nd June 2014
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP2016 View Post
...Engineers that had a electronically variable speed control on their studio tape recorder were in favor: They could really adjust the pre-delay time !!!!

Those were the days……
I still do it that way. Teac A3440 with varispeed.
Old 22nd June 2014
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I still do it that way. Teac A3440 with varispeed.
That's why I like you.
Old 22nd June 2014
  #11
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Old 23rd June 2014
  #12
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And what are the reasons fir outboard predelay? Do you get some coloration/compression/harmonics into the singnal sent to the reverb? Does it help with reverb blending?
Old 23rd June 2014
  #13
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Marshall Tape Eliminator
Old 23rd June 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha View Post
And what are the reasons fir outboard predelay? Do you get some coloration/compression/harmonics into the singnal sent to the reverb? Does it help with reverb blending?
For me it's about keeping the whole chain analogue. Kind of a religious thing.
Old 23rd June 2014
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha View Post
And what are the reasons fir outboard predelay? Do you get some coloration/compression/harmonics into the singnal sent to the reverb? Does it help with reverb blending?
Yes, it can help with reverb blending. For instance, when adding reverb on a vocal, if you feel that the reverb is causing a loss of clarity, then adding a pre-delay to the reverb may help "clear it up." The reason being: If there's a delay (pre-delay in this case) before the onset of reverb, then the vocal (or other instrument) may be given some space (the pre-delay) to articulate itself. Thanks, I hope that helps.
Old 23rd June 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Marshall Tape Eliminator
Ok analog tape -> marshall ar-300 -> emt 444 electronic transformer based multitap delay
Old 23rd June 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha View Post
And what are the reasons fir outboard predelay? Do you get some coloration/compression/harmonics into the singnal sent to the reverb? Does it help with reverb blending?
As said earlier:
In the early seventies we had no digital delay, so that is what we used then.
And every studio knew that trick.
Old 23rd June 2014
  #18
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Ye but there were electronic delays
Old 23rd June 2014
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
Ye but there were electronic delays
Agree !
But tape sounded way better than the bucket-brigade delays.
Old 23rd June 2014
  #20
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Ever heard a emt 444? ))

35 kg emt transformer coupled electronic delay
Built for eternity with 15 bit burr brown
Ad/da - this unit alone gives you the sonics of a couple 250s
Old 23rd June 2014
  #21
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I was referring to the times that there were no (affordable) digital delay units yet.
The EMT 444 was an elecronic, digital delay.....
Old 23rd June 2014
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
Yes, it can help with reverb blending. For instance, when adding reverb on a vocal, if you feel that the reverb is causing a loss of clarity, then adding a pre-delay to the reverb may help "clear it up." The reason being: If there's a delay (pre-delay in this case) before the onset of reverb, then the vocal (or other instrument) may be given some space (the pre-delay) to articulate itself. Thanks, I hope that helps.
Thanks, predelay on reverb is (fortunately) obvious concept to me. I'm nudging my spring reverb returns/prints in 99% of time. I was curious about the hw/analogue part of it .
Old 23rd June 2014
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP2016 View Post
I was referring to the times that there were no (affordable) digital delay units yet.
The EMT 444 was an elecronic, digital delay.....
oh i though you were calling the emt 444 a bbb

you are are forgiven and take a beer from you since you’re called sp2016
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