The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Condition of this U87 Capsule? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 6th December 2009
  #31
Lives for gear
 
kurt's Avatar
Guys, 800 X 600 is sufficient for sharp images..
Old 6th December 2009
  #32
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
The capsule on the right is an authentic Neumann-replacement K87/67. It was made in 1994, and, as all K87/K870 of that era, came with red lead outs from the factory.
Thanks for the correction, Klaus. How long did they use the red wires for? All the more recent new capsules I have gotten indicate that they are using yellow again.
Old 6th December 2009
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Can you re-orient the lead-out wires?

Yes. Just slightly loosen the screw, with a screw driver whose blade is at least as wide as the screw slot, re-orient the wire and make sure to not over-tighten the mounting screw when fastening it again.


Will it make any difference, sound-wise, which way the wire is oriented?

Probably not. First, the shadowing effect of the wire cannot be avoided- the lead out must be there.
The wire will of course create standing waves between it and the diaphragm surface, but the area affected is so tiny that it will not show up audibly, in my experience, which way to place the wire.
If you want to be super-picky you could place or bend the wire in such a way that it does not create a parallel line with the surface of the diaphragm.

But it's always a good idea to make sure when orienting the wire that it will not touch any other surfaces or wire, as this would create an electric as well as mechanical contact that may show up audibly.

As to the exact era of red vs. yellow lead-out wires in newer KK87 capsule heads: I will research and add that to the thread once I have reliable enough information.

Best regards,
Klaus Heyne
Old 7th December 2009
  #34
Gear Head
 

I can offer one additional data point here. I bought a pair of new K87s from Neumann/Sennheiser exactly five years ago (which I never ended up installing), and they both have yellow wires.

Mark W
Old 8th December 2009
  #35
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
Can you re-orient the lead-out wires?

Yes. Just slightly loosen the screw, with a screw driver whose blade is at least as wide as the screw slot, re-orient the wire and make sure to not over-tighten the mounting screw when fastening it again.


Will it make any difference, sound-wise, which way the wire is oriented?

Probably not. First, the shadowing effect of the wire cannot be avoided- the lead out must be there.
The wire will of course create standing waves between it and the diaphragm surface, but the area affected is so tiny that it will not show up audibly, in my experience, which way to place the wire.
If you want to be super-picky you could place or bend the wire in such a way that it does not create a parallel line with the surface of the diaphragm.

But it's always a good idea to make sure when orienting the wire that it will not touch any other surfaces or wire, as this would create an electric as well as mechanical contact that may show up audibly.

As to the exact era of red vs. yellow lead-out wires in newer KK87 capsule heads: I will research and add that to the thread once I have reliable enough information.

Best regards,
Klaus Heyne

Good info. Thank you.
Old 26th February 2010
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
As to the exact era of red vs. yellow lead-out wires in newer KK87 capsule heads: I will research and add that to the thread once I have reliable enough information.Klaus Heyne
Here is a K870 replacement capsule on a M367. This one, made in 1996, also had the red wires (note contamination leading to whistling sounds when spoken into):
Attached Thumbnails
Condition of this U87 Capsule?-capsule1.jpg  
Old 29th April 2010
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

I just inspected an all-original U87i in (#428XX) that was delivered by Neumann in 1984. Its stock-original capsule head contained red capsule lead-out wires.
Old 29th April 2010
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
fimone's Avatar
 

to Klaus

Hi Klaus,
2 questions

do you know how much is important the yellow sponge on these mics? a technician from Sennheiser told me they do not do it anymore because it is useless.

what do you think about the u67 and u87 capsule replacement offered by neumann today? is it the same with the old original or it's better to restore an old one?

thank you !!

Simone
Old 30th April 2010
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Dear Simone,

The yellow-green sponge below the capsule on older U87 served as an acoustic damper, to reduce acoustic reflections between capsule base and top of the screen, which are picked up by the diaphragms.

The sponge was discontinued a long time ago for reasons unknown to me. Maybe because it has a tendency to shred foam particles after a while. When that starts to happen, it's best to just remove it. I have not made any tests to compare the sound of the mic with and without the foam, but am sure that the domed capsule base does most of the suppression of sound reflections.


The second question is one for which I only have a speculative answer, which Neumann disagrees with.

To me, it is obvious that most K67/87/870 capsules over the last seven years or so, have become harder in sound. I.e., the bass response of many of these capsules seems to have been reduced, leading me to the subjective impression that U87Ai (and all U87 mics retrofitted with recent replacement capsules) now sound harsher than they sounded before, due to the frequency balance having shifted upwards. There have been few exceptions to this impression, with only occasional deviations by some specimens to the more rounded, bassier capsule sound of the previous era.

What may be going on?

My speculation: in order to tighten manufacturing tolerances, achieve better side-to-side uniformity, and thereby reducing the number of capsule rejects on this rather expensive component, Sennheiser raised the diaphragm tension slightly, so fewer capsules would fall outside that threshold of rejection. Maybe Sennheiser thought, and again, I admit this is pure speculation, the increase in diaphragm tension was minor enough not to make an audible difference in achieving this goal.

Neumann rejects my contention that the capsules manufactured now have less bass response than they used to have, and, to prove the point, offered to measure two (new, factory-sealed, until I tested them) samples I sent them. Neumann determined that both capsules, one ca. 15 years old, the other from current production, fell within the capsule's tolerance range for frequency response; though it was also conceded that the capsule I felt represented their "old" standard was bassier, but only slightly so.

If your older capsule can be restored back to factory specifications through professional cleaning I would try that first, rather than take chances with a new capsule, unless you have a chance to first audition the new capsule before you purchase it. You may even like the sound of the new capsule better!


Best regards,
Klaus Heyne
Old 30th April 2010
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
fimone's Avatar
 

Thank you Klaus
Old 4th November 2015
  #41
Lives for gear
 
IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
Dear Simone,

The yellow-green sponge below the capsule on older U87 served as an acoustic damper, to reduce acoustic reflections between capsule base and top of the screen, which are picked up by the diaphragms.

The sponge was discontinued a long time ago for reasons unknown to me. Maybe because it has a tendency to shred foam particles after a while. When that starts to happen, it's best to just remove it. I have not made any tests to compare the sound of the mic with and without the foam, but am sure that the domed capsule base does most of the suppression of sound reflections.


The second question is one for which I only have a speculative answer, which Neumann disagrees with.

To me, it is obvious that most K67/87/870 capsules over the last seven years or so, have become harder in sound. I.e., the bass response of many of these capsules seems to have been reduced, leading me to the subjective impression that U87Ai (and all U87 mics retrofitted with recent replacement capsules) now sound harsher than they sounded before, due to the frequency balance having shifted upwards. There have been few exceptions to this impression, with only occasional deviations by some specimens to the more rounded, bassier capsule sound of the previous era.

What may be going on?

My speculation: in order to tighten manufacturing tolerances, achieve better side-to-side uniformity, and thereby reducing the number of capsule rejects on this rather expensive component, Sennheiser raised the diaphragm tension slightly, so fewer capsules would fall outside that threshold of rejection. Maybe Sennheiser thought, and again, I admit this is pure speculation, the increase in diaphragm tension was minor enough not to make an audible difference in achieving this goal.

Neumann rejects my contention that the capsules manufactured now have less bass response than they used to have, and, to prove the point, offered to measure two (new, factory-sealed, until I tested them) samples I sent them. Neumann determined that both capsules, one ca. 15 years old, the other from current production, fell within the capsule's tolerance range for frequency response; though it was also conceded that the capsule I felt represented their "old" standard was bassier, but only slightly so.

If your older capsule can be restored back to factory specifications through professional cleaning I would try that first, rather than take chances with a new capsule, unless you have a chance to first audition the new capsule before you purchase it. You may even like the sound of the new capsule better!


Best regards,
Klaus Heyne
Klaus, more importantly. Do you think there's a sound difference between the late 60s original capsule and the late 70, late 80s because they look different
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
networkresearch / Geekslutz Forum
1
michj / So Much Gear, So Little Time
2
Diegel / So Much Gear, So Little Time
22
Seventies man / High End
1
KROK / Geekslutz Forum
5

Forum Jump
Forum Jump