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Best Hardware Harmonizer and Reverb
Old 2nd May 2003
  #1
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Best Hardware Harmonizer and Reverb

What are you guys using for harmonizing (vocals) stuff?

What would you buy?

I'm considering an Eclipse.

How are the reverbs (for use on vocal) of the Orville (compared to Sys6k and 960)?? Is the Orville a good value?
Old 2nd May 2003
  #2
Hey Doug,

In the past year i mixed 3 records with the DSP7000/Orville alone.

It doesn't get any better.

It does everything well.

I have a KSP-8 and while somethings on it are cool, I would never trade my Eventide units for it.

Everytime i use it, I always think "man wouldn't be great to have 2 more of these".
Old 2nd May 2003
  #3
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Yep, Another big thumbs up for the Eventide. I have two DSP4500's and a DSP7000 along with TC and Lexicon boxes, but the Eventides are the real work horses and have become my DSP Swiss Army Audio Knife. Besides the harmonizer and standard effects, very useful compressors, eq, filters, any yet very wild and very inspiring sounds. The creative and flexability to create your own custom algorithms is unlike any other processor on the market. The new v3.0 OS for the DSP7000/DSP7500/Orville offer even more improved features and performance. The Eclipse has a lot of bang for the buck, and had more features and flexability than most all the other 1-space rack units, but if you want that real great Eventide sound and flexability you'ss want the newer DSP series or the king, Orville which is like a having both a DSP7000 and DSP7500 in one box.

The reverbs are different than the TC or Lexicon. I like them on vocals, guitar, bass and keys, but not on drums/percussion. I would say the newer Eventide reverbs are inbetween TC and Lexicon in tone and density. I like the Lexicon reverb better (PCM91/M300) in general an on vocals, but the beauty about the Eventide is how you can combine a whole chain of effects such as a compressor, eq, detuner, delay,reverb, vocoder, pitchshifter, envelope filters and be able to use a digital mixer to control volume, pan, on/off and even assign these as well as the effects parmeter to footpedals, footswitches, and/or MIDI control.
Old 2nd May 2003
  #4
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RobAcid's Avatar
 

my ORVILLE is the best !!! but not cheap......
Old 2nd May 2003
  #5
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DanV's Avatar
 

amen! i'd say get your hands on some eventide action, also, if you run tdm they have some new plugs out, would love any reviews of them. cheers!
Old 2nd May 2003
  #6
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RobAcid
my ORVILLE is the best !!! but not cheap......
I know it's not cheap, but is it a bargain?
My best reverb right now is Reverb One. I have a M-One Box and a MPX500 box, because on the road I get close to what I ask for and so I bring my practically disposable boxes if I'm in a bad situation. I don't use them in the studio much at all if ever, except the M-One has better algos then a m2000 actually, it's just not built as solid.
Out on the road I get a lot DSP3000s, SPX990s, SPX90s, MPX1s, PCM80s, etc. But I need a world class system for our (unexpectedly growing) project studio and one to take out on the road, so rack space is important and I'm looking for price/performance no compromise swiss army value. I've looked at the system 6k and can get good pricing on tc stuff....So a multichannel box that does pitch shifting and great reverbs is great.
Like the 6k, if it can do multiband compression and Brickwall limiting, all the better, but the 6k is considerably more expensive with analog converters and a few extra algos, even at the price I get it at.

But as far as (vox thicking) pitch shifting, it doesn't seem that anything can compete with the Eventide stuff. And once your throwing around letters and numbers such as 960 and S6000, The Eventide stuff looks like a value. And to hear the reverb comments, that sounds great.

And Thrill, once again, I appreciate your input.

Is there a algorithm quality difference between the Eclipse and the Orville/7000.

Are you guys using the remote?

If you could do it all over again...would you get

-a Eclipse and a M4000
or
-Orville
or
-7000

Anybody using the new TDM plugs yet?
Old 2nd May 2003
  #7
Quote:
Originally posted by doug_hti
I know it's not cheap, but is it a bargain?
My best reverb right now is Reverb One. I have a M-One Box and a MPX500 box, because on the road I get close to what I ask for and so I bring my practically disposable boxes if I'm in a bad situation. I don't use them in the studio much at all if ever, except the M-One has better algos then a m2000 actually, it's just not built as solid.
Out on the road I get a lot DSP3000s, SPX990s, SPX90s, MPX1s, PCM80s, etc. But I need a world class system for our (unexpectedly growing) project studio and one to take out on the road, so rack space is important and I'm looking for price/performance no compromise swiss army value. I've looked at the system 6k and can get good pricing on tc stuff....So a multichannel box that does pitch shifting and great reverbs is great.
Like the 6k, if it can do multiband compression and Brickwall limiting, all the better, but the 6k is considerably more expensive with analog converters and a few extra algos, even at the price I get it at.

But as far as (vox thicking) pitch shifting, it doesn't seem that anything can compete with the Eventide stuff. And once your throwing around letters and numbers such as 960 and S6000, The Eventide stuff looks like a value. And to hear the reverb comments, that sounds great.

And Thrill, once again, I appreciate your input.

Is there a algorithm quality difference between the Eclipse and the Orville/7000.

Are you guys using the remote?

If you could do it all over again...would you get

-a Eclipse and a M4000
or
-Orville
or
-7000

Anybody using the new TDM plugs yet?
Honestly Doug,

I thought the Eclipse was junk.grudge

I had it for a week and dumped it right after.

You can't compare it to the others(DSP7000/Orville).

Also I am not a big fan of the TC reverbs. To my ears they are a touch too thin. I do like the effect boxes though(I have 2290,1210,Fireworx,Gforce,DBmax).

My choice would be the Orville(its also not cheap), but again i have a lot of effects to supplement it with.

In your case I would probably do the DSP7000/M4000 if you can afford it, if not than Eclipse/M4000.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #8
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Quote:
I know it's not cheap, but is it a bargain?
Yea, It is a bargin in several ways.

1) It has the DSP power and capability of two Eventide's with 8-channel I/O and is still cheaper than buying two with only 4-channel I/O

2) I paid $5K for my first 2-Channel DSP4500 and you can have the Orville for that much with at least 8X the DSP power, with at least 2x the presets size, better and more useful presets, and dozens more modules to create and build more complex presets.

3) The flexability to create your own custom algorithims on the machine or using the free PC editor, including how the parameter interface is used and displayed on the front panel is unique to the Eventide units. The TC6000 while having some great features, makes you spend extra to get the license to use those extra features.

4) Presets from the previous DSP4000 series run on the Orville so any development that was done in custom presets can still be used, improved and expanded on.

5) You get 187-second multi-sampler (up to 16 samples) on one DSP engine, and a mono simple sampler (40 seconds I think) on the other DSP engine. very easy and handy to have. Samples can be looped, time squeezed, time expanded, pitchshifted or even be included with other effects.

There are many reasons why it is, or at least why I think it is a bargin. You'll need to evaluate and justify that on your own.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #9
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

I really appreciate all the info you guys have given and opnion about the Eclipse, it really helps with time and money. I know nothing can beat trying it for myself, but I already have an idea from things I've used in other places.

I think I'll try to spring for a Orville over a 7000, as the multichannel thing seems like a better deal, and 4 channels of I/O for two spaces helps too.

Would you reccomend the Orville/R with the remote only...or is it really helpful to have the faceplate too? Do both versions of Orville come with the Eve/NET remote?

How are the converters on the Orville? What would you compare them to? I'm currently using Digi 192s.

How is the compression and EQ?

Thanks
Old 3rd May 2003
  #10
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Quote:
I think I'll try to spring for a Orville over a 7000, as the multichannel thing seems like a better deal, and 4 channels of I/O for two spaces helps too.
Well you get 8-channel I/O. 4-analog and 4-digital all available at once. Two new additional options are now available. The ADAT 8-channel digital I/O and the 4-Ch digital AES I/O.

Quote:
Would you reccomend the Orville/R with the remote only...or is it really helpful to have the faceplate too? Do both versions of Orville come with the Eve/NET remote?
The EveNET remote can be used with DSP7000/DSP7500/Orville as an option. I really like having that big display, and the remote is also very cool and can control at least 4-more Eventide's. Once you buy one, yout gonna want to buy another...

Quote:
How are the converters on the Orville? What would you compare them to? I'm currently using Digi 192s. How is the compression and EQ?
I haven't comparied the converters to anything directly, and they may not be as good as the TC or Lexicon, but I have no complaints. I like the compressors and eq and find them flexable and quite useful. I've done more than a dozen budget mastering jobs with the Eventides with very good results. I now have the TC DBmax which I find to be better for the multiband comps and Mastering work, but the Eventide is about just as good and sometimes I run the DBmax into the Eventide when I need more DSP processing and/or eq after the DBmax multibands.

The Orville is a box that you are very unlikely to outgrow for many years if ever.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #11
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 

How wild can you get with this Eventide stuff? I like intense fx like pluggo. Can you for instance, do a 24 voice chorus from a mono track with pitch shifting and phasing on each voice and have pitch correction on the source and reverb on one voice, delay on another synced to the source track amplitude modulation confragumobobulated with the wiznut and actually sound good?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #12
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
Have any of you used the DSP7000/7500(?) sampler? Is it tricky or useful?
Hey Fae,

I own one and have tried it.

Does it replace an Akai?

Nah.

Its more useful for one shot things though.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #13
Quote:
Originally posted by AudioGaff
Well you get 8-channel I/O. 4-analog and 4-digital all available at once. Two new additional options are now available. The ADAT 8-channel digital I/O and the 4-Ch digital AES I/O.



The EveNET remote can be used with DSP7000/DSP7500/Orville as an option. I really like having that big display, and the remote is also very cool and can control at least 4-more Eventide's. Once you buy one, yout gonna want to buy another...



I haven't comparied the converters to anything directly, and they may not be as good as the TC or Lexicon, but I have no complaints. I like the compressors and eq and find them flexable and quite useful. I've done more than a dozen budget mastering jobs with the Eventides with very good results. I now have the TC DBmax which I find to be better for the multiband comps and Mastering work, but the Eventide is about just as good and sometimes I run the DBmax into the Eventide when I need more DSP processing and/or eq after the DBmax multibands.

The Orville is a box that you are very unlikely to outgrow for many years if ever.
Hey Audiogaff,

Looks like we like a lot of the same things.

I've chained up my DBmax to my DSP7000 when processing/fixing snares.

Also on backgrounds.

I haven't used the comps as much though in the DSP7000.

And i do agree the remote is killer.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #14
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DanV's Avatar
 

lets just say the orville blows pluggo away
ever hear the effects on goplastic by squarepusher? they all orville bro. ... lets just say if you know how to build your algos with the modular bocks in the orville,, you are well on your way to some of the most amazing fx available in a 2u rack. and of course if you decide you don't liek it i will trade you for my soul or perhaps i can sell a kidney? cheers!heh

p.s. here is a new song i have just started - about 2 hours of work so far please listen. copypaste the link otherwise no go.

http://zebox.com/ze/a3/hernan_-_startniquist.mp3
Old 3rd May 2003
  #15
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Hey faeflora, Don't know nuttin bout that pluggo stuff, but you can pretty much get as wild as you can imagine with the Eventide's. Words don't do it justice. You'll have get your ears close to one and thumb through the presets as examples of it's capability. I have yet to find something it can't do that I want it to do.

I use my DSP4500 sampler for kick and snare enchancement/replacement and most often as a songwritting tool. Quick and easy way to mess with loops without having to dick around with a computer. I sold my PCM42 and TC2290 about a year ago for top dollar and find that one of my DSP4500's can pretty much do what they did when I take the time to finely tweak a custom algorithm using it in dual machine dual mono mode. Not exactly the same of course, but with the money I sold them for, I bought two AMEK/NEVE CIB's which I make much better use of. Besides, the PCM42 and the TC2290 will be cheap enough to buy again in few years if and when I find that I really need them..

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrill -
Looks like we like a lot of the same things.
Ya, I've noticed that. I often find myself thinking, "I hope that Thrill dude doesn't think I'm always trying to copy him" As it turns out, your the man and I'm just a Gaff...
Old 3rd May 2003
  #16
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by danv1983
[B
p.s. here is a new song i have just started - about 2 hours of work so far please listen. copypaste the link otherwise no go.

http://zebox.com/ze/a3/hernan_-_startniquist.mp3 [/B]


No Workum.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #17
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 

Well as an investment, would you say that I would not need to buy lots of plugs if I had a 7K/Orville? I work native and I'm always maxing my system and was planning on going PT. Maybe I should pick up a 7K instead?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #18
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
Well as an investment, would you say that I would not need to buy lots of plugs if I had a 7K/Orville? I work native and I'm always maxing my system and was planning on going PT. Maybe I should pick up a 7K instead?

Fae,

I personally couldn't say that either.

Like I said i use it extensively but, I have a ton of other outboard effect processors to augment it...and I mean a ton!!heh

I think your best bet is to mix it up.

Maybe you should look into buying one of those Powercore cards.

Even though i don't use that many plugs, I like the Emagic plugs(especially the new ones they've added in 6.0). I just ordered the Eventide Clockworks and Altiverb. I have a lot of VST plugs on my computer(I am about to try the PSP 42 delay and compare it to the original). The Wavemechanics is kinda cool.

In the end will I stop buying outboard units?...nah(I just picked up an old Dynacord DRP20 and a Korg A1). Hopefully in a month i will be able to pick up the new Princeton Digital Reverb 2016(I've been waiting for this thing for months).

The lust continues!!
Old 3rd May 2003
  #19
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Thermionic's Avatar
 

Harmonisers

Anyone got to grips with the V-SIGFILE editor yet? I've had a 7000 a while, but have yet to find the time to explore v-sigfile..

Also; I notice one member was saying the evenet-remote is good. Does it add anything that you couldn't do with a good midi-fader-bank? Been thinking about evenet for a while, but in the UK it is £1,700, that's a-lot-of-corn for a remote, some dealers would not even quote me for one on the grounds I'd be offended by the price!

Thanks in advance for any comments.

BTW,Thrillfactor, I have a dynacord drp20+15, IMHO they are a well-kept secret!
Old 3rd May 2003
  #20
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DanV's Avatar
 

fae,, did you copy and paste that link into another browser window? it should work. as far as if you will need many more plugs if you gota 7k or orville? i'd say no for the most part, especially if you are into experimental pluggo type things,, but thats only if you are patient enough to program the stuff on the orville that is not already saved as a preset. thermionic, vsig is where it's at,, no gripes,, its almost just like reaktor or msp but your using highquality algos instead! i'm sure that the evenet remote is worth it if you want to get heavy into using the tides and don't have space to put em witih hands reach,, i know my dsp 4000 missed a lot of use because i was too lazy to lean over and tweak and becasue midi control was not as exetnsive as hoped. i think that the 7k-orville series are more advanced as far as the midi control, but if you got the money to blow on the remote and are sure you are gonna use your tide hardcore - you just can't go wrong, i mean,, no midi box will be as complete for control purpose.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #21
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e-cue's Avatar
 

The orville is one of those units you either rent, or pressure the studio to buy for you. I know one of their bigger endorsers and he still had to pay like a couple G's for his. As far as the remote, a laptop computer would be a cheaper, more versitile remote for the orville.

By the way, did it take anyone else like an hour to figure out how to get audio in and out of the unit the 1st time they used it?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #22
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Plan is to get a cheap laptop just for the 7000. Can't help wondering if Eventide may have pre-empted this idea to make you buy an evenet, be good to have comments on this method!


Quote:
By the way, did it take anyone else like an hour to figure out how to get audio in and out of the unit the 1st time they used it? [/B]
NO COMMENT
Old 3rd May 2003
  #23
Re: Harmonisers

Quote:
Originally posted by THERMIONIC
Anyone got to grips with the V-SIGFILE editor yet? I've had a 7000 a while, but have yet to find the time to explore v-sigfile..

Also; I notice one member was saying the evenet-remote is good. Does it add anything that you couldn't do with a good midi-fader-bank? Been thinking about evenet for a while, but in the UK it is £1,700, that's a-lot-of-corn for a remote, some dealers would not even quote me for one on the grounds I'd be offended by the price!

Thanks in advance for any comments.

BTW,Thrillfactor, I have a dynacord drp20+15, IMHO they are a well-kept secret!

Thermionic,

I got my remote second hand. I think it was around $900.

Have you visited the yahoo support website yet? There are a lot of helpful hints how to program it.

I am investigating modifying the DRP20. I know the DRP20U had the balanced inputs and its a little quieter, so I am going to have someone modify it(DRP20) to knock down some of the noise. I've always loved this box since it was around in the old days.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #24
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Quote:
Anyone got to grips with the V-SIGFILE editor yet?
Yea, I got gripes about it. But then I got gripes about every piece of sofftware I've ever used. Vsig is a great tool that has come a long way from what it stated out as. It is Beta software created for internal factory use of preset designs so that they didn't have to use the front panel. Eventide gives it away free to users and makes improvements to it as new features and new products are designed. It is Beta and is a low prioriity project so it is not fully supported, debugged, or updated like software you pay for. It is now very stable, does everything I need to create, modify and design custom and complex presets.

Quote:
I notice one member was saying the evenet-remote is good. Does it add anything that you couldn't do with a good midi-fader-bank?
Yes and No. A good MIDI controller will allow you to do more extensive control of parameters. With the EveNET remote, you get the exact same features as the whole front panel on the Eventide, plus 8-rotary encoders and footpedal/footswitches inputs, as well as MIDI I/O on the back of the remote.
Quote:
Have you visited the yahoo support website yet? There are a lot of helpful hints how to program it.
Be warned that if you bad mouth or mention any other product being as good or better than the Eventide on the group forum, you will be tongue lashed by the moderator who has to approve and will censor all postings.
Old 4th May 2003
  #25
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Renie's Avatar
 

Thrill

so you're talking about two separate boxes right? the Orville and the DSP7000? There isn't a DSP7000 card for the Orville...? I've looked at the Eventide site and it looks like it's the separates. That's a lot of dough!!
And that's obviously what it takes.

I do get confused when i hear artists talking about producing their records with say, the logic plugs and that's about it, oh and maybe Pluggo. OK slight exaggeration. Maybe they just talk about half the story. Quality costs. grudge

I'd love to hear the units.

What's your expectation of the plug-in's, a weedy Eclipsey wash out????

I'm just dying to hear more external processing than PT plug's I'm convinced they are all limited to the same circus. Then again i think it's possible to work fantastic within those tricks, I'd like more choice and more quality options though and must get that happening more!!



Old 4th May 2003
  #26
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrill

so you're talking about two separate boxes right? the Orville and the DSP7000? There isn't a DSP7000 card for the Orville...? I've looked at the Eventide site and it looks like it's the separates. That's a lot of dough!!
And that's obviously what it takes.

I do get confused when i hear artists talking about producing their records with say, the logic plugs and that's about it, oh and maybe Pluggo. OK slight exaggeration. Maybe they just talk about half the story. Quality costs. grudge

I'd love to hear the units.

What's your expectation of the plug-in's, a weedy Eclipsey wash out????

I'm just dying to hear more external processing than PT plug's I'm convinced they are all limited to the same circus. Then again i think it's possible to work fantastic within those tricks, I'd like more choice and more quality options though and must get that happening more!!



Renie,

The DSP7000/7500 is basically the stereo version of the Orville.

I basically don't mix with a lot of plugs. There are not many that I am fond of, but I haven't heard them all.

I've always been partial to the outboard stuff(i've been using them for years). I have my favorites. Basically I just chain them up and make up my own sounds.

I don't think all plugs are evil(like I posted earlier I am getting the Clockworks Package). I just feel that the outboard stuff to my ears sounds so much better.

I didn't like the Eclipse because it sounded like a glorified H3000.
Old 4th May 2003
  #27
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Renie's Avatar
 

Yes as you've evolved with outboard gear it makes sense to stay with it. Especially if it sounds better!

I didn't read you're getting the Clockworks, it should be interesting to hear what you make of it and generally of the next generation of HD plug's.
Old 4th May 2003
  #28
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Yes as you've evolved with outboard gear it makes sense to stay with it. Especially if it sounds better!

I didn't read you're getting the Clockworks, it should be interesting to hear what you make of it and generally of the next generation of HD plug's.
I would say if you are using a lot of plugs, to invest in some outboard stuff to augment them is a great idea.

I freelance at a couple of Digi studios that are setup this way.

Yeah sometimes I wish they had "X", but at that level you just find the next closest thing.
Old 29th July 2003
  #29
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cebolao's Avatar
 

hello.
i've made a search on gearslutz about ORVILLE and found this thread which is already few months old...

i would like to learn more about orville's surround sound capabilities. is it able to create a real 5 channels reverb like m6000 or 960 do? what does the surround reverb sound compared to above?

are other algorhitms available in surround?
Old 29th July 2003
  #30
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
The orville is one of those units you either rent, or pressure the studio to buy for you.

By the way, did it take anyone else like an hour to figure out how to get audio in and out of the unit the 1st time they used it?
Yep! I was afraid that it was just me...
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