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Api 1608: the only console in the world that don't work with Tonelux Shadow Mix
Old 26th July 2009
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Careyn View Post
Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?
Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....
Old 26th July 2009
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Careyn View Post
Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?
Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]
Old 26th July 2009
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....
I see. Thanks for clearing this out for me.
Cheers.
Old 26th July 2009
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]
Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk
Old 26th July 2009
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB View Post
Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk
thats an option but I just cannot do another set of AD/DA.
it changes the sound[not in a good way] too much for my taste.plus another 10-12 k in another 32 plus channels of I/o ,id rather put that into shadowmix,etc
Old 26th July 2009
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB View Post
Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk
If you do it that way, why not just keep it in PT and mix there? I don't see how spending the extra money on extra ad/da's and the console just to do it this way.... And if the API is just a 'summer', there are cheaper ways to do it.... 8816/dangerous/equinox/etc....
Old 26th July 2009
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
If you do it that way, why not just keep it in PT and mix there? I don't see how spending the extra money on extra ad/da's and the console just to do it this way.... And if the API is just a 'summer', there are cheaper ways to do it.... 8816/dangerous/equinox/etc....
Well, I certainly agree it's a workaround and not an ideal solution. And if you want to automate every channel and use outboard compression on a lot of channels, then investing in a automation system definitely makes sense.

On the other hand, if you have a cool analoge console and a couple of good outboard comps, I think this is a somewhat usable scenario instead of relying on plug-ins.

Regards,
Dirk
Old 26th July 2009
  #158
jho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....
Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.
Old 26th July 2009
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
What if I don't have a DAW, and don't want one?

Then obviously his question would not apply to you, that’s what.



Old 26th July 2009
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jho View Post
Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.
So you do all of your automation moves in PT?

Thanks for your time.



Old 27th July 2009
  #161
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]
If you have wildly varying automation on the track with something patched, why not just use a Hardware I/O for pre-fader PT insert, when/where you need it?
Old 27th July 2009
  #162
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How has this degenerated into a conversation about whether mechanical fader automation is worth using?

I keep checking here to see if anyone has found out why shadowmix won't work with a 1608 and there hasn't been any new info. Does anybody actually know? Is it just because they're not allowed to say that it does, or is the impedance of the faders wrong, or what?

Hell, I don't even really want shadowmix for my 1608. I just want to know if it's an eventual option or not.
Old 27th July 2009
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
If you have wildly varying automation on the track with something patched, why not just use a Hardware I/O for pre-fader PT insert, when/where you need it?
See post 159 above.in can work on individual tracks but w/ lots of parallel stuff,its a pain to double check delay compensation phase issues on the fly,it never sounds right to me.. workflow.
also I do lots off parallel stuff on auxes and subs on the console
Old 27th July 2009
  #164
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Noise10's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jho View Post
Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.
Read the post again.... He said with tube gear inserted. Meaning the outboard gear could cause noise, not the console.
Old 27th July 2009
  #165
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I'm going to jump in here because i'm letting my ears rest and I'm virgin flipping a tape:

I have used both the RND alot (working with another GS member and brilliant engineer) tracking drums and also the 1608 and a giant white vintage API console at another studio all within the last few months. I also own the Tree Audio 500.

I was one of the original ordering persons of the 1608. They had my money and me on hold for a while. They were complete ****ing dicks to me at NAMM a few years ago. I cancelled my order and commissioned Steve to start the tree audio 500. On that experience alone i would say automation is not happening. Just my 2 cents.

Don't get me wrond, I like API products, My tree is filled with 550's and 560s and a few 525's, but well, service i don't think is their forte for the little guy (read anyone not being a 100,000$+ console)

The RND is a beautiful beast and truly built in the fashion of the classics. Mic Pres in silk mode is good as gold. Versatility in tracking is great. Tons of headroom good sound. 1608, yeah cool. I like a well maintained 1604 better. The vintage white beast sounded awesome but, you know, don't use that channel, skip this one, etc. Mixing? Tree Audio all the way. Reconfigure and go baby. Inward Connections sound all day long - plus it's shadowmix compatible.

YMMV, IMHO, PEace and all that.

BTW, Roundbadge i got a EAR 660 over here right now on lead vocals with a smidgen of Level-OR in parralel - AMAZING
Old 28th July 2009
  #166
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRadio View Post
BTW, Roundbadge i got a EAR 660 over here right now on lead vocals with a smidgen of Level-OR in parralel - AMAZING
sounds cool.I gotta try that.
I've got 2 on the mix buss w/ the Shadow hills Mastering comp -1 db from each.unreal.
Old 29th July 2009
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
While your looking check out the Rupert Neve 5088 as well.I did and its pretty great.
its on my radar for when i move to a bigger space.

And if you're still looking, check out a Daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on GS
Old 29th July 2009
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmix View Post
and if you're still looking, check out a daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on gs
!Please buy his console so I can stop thinking about selling my organs on the black market!
Old 29th July 2009
  #169
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LordRadio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
sounds cool.I gotta try that.
I've got 2 on the mix buss w/ the Shadow hills Mastering comp -1 db from each.unreal.
Yeah, the gain and knobs on the EAR are weird.. took a second to get used to. AC and DC threshold WTF? But alas, once I got the gain right at the input it was on and on. only thing i wish is it had a hardwire bypass since i'm not using it in parallel. Funny enough, although i'm sure it's cpable of really great high-fi stuff, I'm using it to decimate lead vocals (almost 10 dbs of reduction on transients) and its great. 525 behind it to catch a couple peaks, Using the level-ors in crunch mode and then filtered off the top in parallel to add just a bit of mid-range rasp and the vocals sound huge. No de-esser, no eq. Awesome.

Damn, i have to return this rental in a few days to.

btw
Daking and Wonderbar are also great, modern boutique consoles.
Old 29th July 2009
  #170
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robmix View Post
And if you're still looking, check out a Daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on GS
Old 16th November 2009
  #171
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Honestly it'd be cheaper to just sell the API,get the RNC console and go w/ shadowmix
ShadowMix also uses a custom made fader from P&G that has the identical track as Pro Tools, and when you take the mix elsewhere, it retains all your moves.
Old 16th November 2009
  #172
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux View Post
ShadowMix also uses a custom made fader from P&G that has the identical track as Pro Tools, and when you take the mix elsewhere, it retains all your moves.
And that is what it's all about.
Auto/PT married together AND afforadable.end of storythumbsupthumbsup
Old 16th April 2010
  #173
any more news on this. Any new automation options for the 1608?
Old 17th April 2010
  #174
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimskidog View Post
any more news on this. Any new automation options for the 1608?
This ain't gonna happen.
Old 17th April 2010
  #175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74 View Post
This ain't gonna happen.
what ain't? API providing it, shadowmix working with it, martin sound providing a lower cost option or another manufacturer entering the Market?
Old 18th April 2010
  #176
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Scott's suggestion is the exact setup that I am going to put into my studio later this year. I just recently got into API gear. Last year I bought 2 3124, 1 5500 eq, 1 2500 comp, as well as the Arsenal Audio stuff. I have over 40 channels of very high end pres in the studio (Neve, Focusrite, Amek, Wunder, Portico, Avalon, etc) but have been relying more and more on just the API's. I would love to get another 5-6 5500 eq racks and then my dealer suggested I look at the 1608. I am in the market for an ICON and was about to get one this month but with the Euphonix aquisition I may wait till the end of the year. I am planning to get the 1608 with at least 4 channels of the 527 comp and an ICON. I will use the 1608 for tracking and summing, automation will be ICON. I have and HD6 but have also started to use logic pro and it would be nice to use the 1608 with that as well.
Old 18th April 2010
  #177
er, great. Thanks.

Now, am i hearing that there are no more options on automation?
Old 19th April 2010
  #178
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimskidog View Post
what ain't? API providing it, shadowmix working with it, martin sound providing a lower cost option or another manufacturer entering the Market?
Yeah...sorry I didn't specify. I spoke to an engineer that's very close to API people and API said no automation for 1608. That was the last word almost 2 years ago.

Hope this helps,
Pupo
Old 19th April 2010
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74 View Post
Yeah...sorry I didn't specify. I spoke to an engineer that's very close to API people and API said no automation for 1608. That was the last word almost 2 years ago.

Hope this helps,
Pupo

Thanks man. Yeah I spoke to them myself and got the same message.. The real question is whether there's a sensibly priced useable alternative. I guess if there isn't I may be in the market for a used Legacy.
Old 19th April 2010
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimskidog View Post
Thanks man. Yeah I spoke to them myself and got the same message.. The real question is whether there's a sensibly priced useable alternative. I guess if there isn't I may be in the market for a used Legacy.
I guess u r better off with a Legacy, no sense to me if you don't have automation. If you use it as a big summing box with EQ's or as a tracking console then I guess is a beautiful thing to have but you cannot work on your gain structure automating before hitting the board.
Cheers,
Pupo
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