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Hardware EQ with sweetest sounding top end / "air" ?
Old 1st July 2009
  #61
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Ben F's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I've yet to hear another EQ that is as gentle at boosting around 4k to 6khz with the exception of a mastering Sontec and that is out of my price range.
Hi Thrill, The Sontec 250EX reissue is actually very close to the mastering version sonically, and has the advantage of sweepable shelves for the low and high frequencies. I think they go for around $2890.
Old 1st July 2009
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
Hi Thrill, The Sontec 250EX reissue is actually very close to the mastering version sonically, and has the advantage of sweepable shelves for the low and high frequencies. I think they go for around $2890.
I had an EX a while ago and even though i liked the sound better than the 8200 up top, the mastering version always had a gentler tone in the mid range that was a just a step above.

Also i refuse to buy anymore gear(especially EQ's) that can't be recalled at an instant or almost. It just takes too long to store and recall the gear these days especially with variable pots. Clients expect the instant recalls and don't want to hear any excuses.lol

With that being said the price of the mastering version of a Sontec is just out of my league right now or in the immediate future. Its a shame because i wanted to try the new Buzz EQ, but the price makes it a real "buzz" kill.
Old 1st July 2009
  #63
11413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
...i just believe that the hi's or "air" especialy when working with digital tracks is just not something that's lacking. Actually lately i've felt that a couple of things that i've either tracked or have been offered to mix has too much hi's. Its like a struggle to make things sound like one whole piece and gel or one whole body work. Also when mixing rock its really the vocals and cymbals that setup the hi freq levels and those are pretty easy to get right if you know what you are doing.
Everything else is pretty much bandlimited down to the kick, bass, snares & electric guitars.
If you boost the highs in the guitars they get fizzy, lots of string noise and if there were pedals used you boost the noise. If you boost the hi's too much on the snares you get alot of hat and the sound gets brittle. If you do it for the kick it gets clicky or pointy and for the bass it starts to stick out.


there's not a lot over 6.5k on any instrument sounds on big records... except for a few reverbs, vox, and OHs.

this myth that ppl are mixing tracks together @ full bandwidth has got to finally die
Old 1st July 2009
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11413 View Post


there's not a lot over 6.5k on any instrument sounds on big records... except for a few reverbs, vox, and OHs.

this myth that ppl are mixing tracks together @ full bandwidth has got to finally die
You know its funny even on most of the effect aux sends its band limited all the way. Delays and reverbs in natural spaces are all bandlimited in some way.

The one thing i read alot on GS is HP everything because there is no low info, but no one mentions LPassing. You do need good sounding filters though, because just like you can hear & feel the effects of the ringing further up when HPassing, it works the other way as well.
Old 1st July 2009
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I've been mixing through Ozone for the last few years more for the limiter, multiband compressor and Mbit dither.
Thrill, does that approach of mixing through Ozone help tightening lowend cos you said that's the part of spectrum it's harder to get right than highs when mixing ITB? I suppose using multiband in Ozone is for that purpose
Old 1st July 2009
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlast View Post
Thrill, does that approach of mixing through Ozone help tightening lowend cos you said that's the part of spectrum that's harder to get right than highs when mixing ITB? I suppose using multiband in Ozone is for that purpose
I use it because i was over at Sterling one day and they were using plugins(limiter and multiband compressor, EQ) for mastering and they got the music to sound really loud and good. No outboard even though the stuff was in the racks. That made me change my tune a little bit about using plugs. So now i mix analog or hybrid with the analog comp & or EQ on the mixbuss like usual and through the Ozone already cranking. By the time the mix is done it not only sounds good but LOUD!!! Which is what the clients expect anyway. This way you can shape the sound around what Ozone does and incorporate into the final result.

Sucks when it goes to the ME though because it will be already smoking, but if i did my job right he/she won't really have that much to do.
Old 1st July 2009
  #67
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u b k's Avatar
 

Old modular synth gear is a great way to get sweet sounding lo-pass without breaking the bank. If you're a diy guy, it's cheap as hell to construct a very tight filter.

On the flip side, I can't stand the sound of hi-passing, I prefer shelves.

As for band-limiting, this is why god gave us dynamic microphones. The only thing I use condensers on these days is acoustic guitars, and those are sdc's.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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Old 1st July 2009
  #68
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
And lets not forget, some people HP almost all of their tracks by default.

Certain HP filters ring further up top. You stack too much of them together and it builds up where things will sound separated and edgy over all.
I've been doing this a lot recently but with a 6dB p o on the MDW EQ and it works. I love that plugin.
Thrill, do you do this as well? I think it tightens things u a lot.
And if the OP wants hardware I bet it'll be hard to beat the 8200 for this specific purpose.

Cheers,
Pupo
Old 1st July 2009
  #69
11413
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Old modular synth gear is a great way to get sweet sounding lo-pass without breaking the bank. If you're a diy guy, it's cheap as hell to construct a very tight filter.

On the flip side, I can't stand the sound of hi-passing, I prefer shelves.

As for band-limiting, this is why god gave us dynamic microphones. The only thing I use condensers on these days is acoustic guitars, and those are sdc's.
YES on dynamics (and ribbons). if you dont need anything over 6k, why record it in the first place....

YES on the old moog filters..

filter or shelf on case by case basis... i wasn't splitting hairs. it's hard enough getting ppl off of the full bandwidth train

the other thing i've been realizing lately is how useful MONO reverbs are for shaping the decay of sounds...
Old 1st July 2009
  #70
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I use it because i was over at Sterling one day and they were using plugins(limiter and multiband compressor, EQ) for mastering and they got the music to sound really loud and good. No outboard even though the stuff was in the racks. That made me change my tune a little bit about using plugs. So now i mix analog or hybrid with the analog comp & or EQ on the mixbuss like usual and through the Ozone already cranking. By the time the mix is done it not only sounds good but LOUD!!! Which is what the clients expect anyway. This way you can shape the sound around what Ozone does and incorporate into the final result.
In case I missed it...which EQ are you using on the mix buss? And what kind of shaping are you doing to the whole mix?

thanks,
Brad
Old 1st July 2009
  #71
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

I was using EQ on the bus for a while but stopped. I'd prefer to create contrasts within the mix and get the frequencies I'm looking for from the individual tracks rather than in bulk on the master. That said, the Sontec 250 (I have an old version C) sound incredible on the bus, especially for hi end air. If the reissue's sound like the original, that's a very nice ticket to hi end on the overall mix.
Old 1st July 2009
  #72
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duvalle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I use it because i was over at Sterling one day and they were using plugins(limiter and multiband compressor, EQ) for mastering and they got the music to sound really loud and good. No outboard even though the stuff was in the racks. That made me change my tune a little bit about using plugs. So now i mix analog or hybrid with the analog comp & or EQ on the mixbuss like usual and through the Ozone already cranking. By the time the mix is done it not only sounds good but LOUD!!! Which is what the clients expect anyway. This way you can shape the sound around what Ozone does and incorporate into the final result.

Sucks when it goes to the ME though because it will be already smoking, but if i did my job right he/she won't really have that much to do.
very interesting ... thx for sharing!
Old 1st July 2009
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I use it because i was over at Sterling one day and they were using plugins(limiter and multiband compressor, EQ) for mastering and they got the music to sound really loud and good. No outboard even though the stuff was in the racks. That made me change my tune a little bit about using plugs. So now i mix analog or hybrid with the analog comp & or EQ on the mixbuss like usual and through the Ozone already cranking. By the time the mix is done it not only sounds good but LOUD!!! Which is what the clients expect anyway. This way you can shape the sound around what Ozone does and incorporate into the final result.

Sucks when it goes to the ME though because it will be already smoking, but if i did my job right he/she won't really have that much to do.
Thanx for answer Thrill.
Old 1st July 2009
  #74
Here for the gear
 

+1 tonecontrols.
i shot them out with an 8200 (which i'd had for about a year), 5500, hammer, fearns, lil freqs, and the ibis, for mastering duties (my job.) i preferred the tonecontrols to the hammer overall, and thought their high end was comparable, but they do treat it differently. i thought that for sweetening and airy high end the ibis was the best out of the bunch, but for mids and low it was not my bag so that ruled it out. one other option is the millenia nseq with the forsell mod which a lot of mastering engineers use for air. if you're going to just get one eq though i'd consider the 8200. you should demo.
i'm also gonna put in a +1 for ozone, especially 4, and the intelligent 2 algorithm in the limiter stage.
i am trying to eliminate analog eqs (also use a pair of eqh's) in favor of digital but so far have not been able to. of course since i'm using tc's and eqh's i use plugs for surgical cuts, but for broad boosting i haven't had as much success yet, but i don't doubt its possible. its very hard to say really - since any real test has to be blind and matched (for me rms), i wonder when i shoot out my analog eqs with my plugs if i don't favor the analogs because of a natural compression thats occurring and subsequently louder rms to the plugs. how much to compensate? becomes subjective.
Old 1st July 2009
  #75
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A big plus one concerning nothing on the 2 buss. I eq and compress individually for each element in the mix. I don't like homogenizing the whole mix. Let each individual element sound unique and balance the different elements to create a nice whole = yin yang.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #76
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
A big plus one concerning nothing on the 2 buss. I eq and compress individually for each element in the mix. I don't like homogenizing the whole mix. Let each individual element sound unique and balance the different elements to create a nice whole = yin yang.
Yeah, I started to use the Sontec on the bus to boost highs during a project on which I had recorded everything first to 2" 16 track and it needed to have the modern bright pop sound. It seemed like a simple solution to get the sheen, and it worked...but half way through I decided I wanted to have control over which tracks created the "sheen" and which things could stay more mellow etc. These mixes were more interesting in my opinion. Although I don't mind mixing into a bus comp, there's something I don't like about mixing into an EQ curve.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #77
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Something to keep in mind is that if someone only has one golden pair of eq, these are the options for their mix:

1. No mix processing, use however many plugins to lift the top on sounds, which generally includes mission critical ones like overheads & vocals.

2. Golden eq to open up the mix, use however many plugins to darken the sounds you don't want lifted.

In my experience, plugs and other non-magical eq's tend to be less damaging when taking something away than when adding something in.

I've lost count of how many stages of iron and discrete love I jam every track thru, both tracking and mixing. Why I'd want to stop this insanity when it comes to the mix buss itself is unclear to me; every piece of gear I use acts in part as an eq, in for a penny in for a pound I say.

But to be fair, I favor a/d/a converters with transformers in the path so take my p.o.v. for what it's worth.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #78
tekis
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I'll do whatever is necessary to make my mix sound good at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicSlut666 View Post
I am looking forward to get my first Hardware EQ for tracking, mixing and some light mastering use (for artists who can not afford an additional mastering engineer).

Most of the time the EQ will be strapped across my Master Buss to give my ITB mixes some top end lift. So i am looking for a versatile Hardware EQ that would give my mixes some nice sounding "air". I am doing Rock, Metal , Punk and Acoustic stuff and tend to like more colored sounding hardware boxes.

It would be great if you can share your experiences regarding the top end sound of the follwing "usual suspects":

API 5500
Chander Curve Bender
Chandler Tone Controls
Manley Massive Passive
A-Designs Hammer
Great River EQ-2NV


I have already done some intensive research and have read positive feedback about the A-Designs Hammer.

I own a NightPro EQ3. I love what the "Air" and 2.5khz shelving bands do sometimes. I've used a pair of API 550A's, A-1's and 550B's in shelving mode from time to time. I've used Pultecs and Lang PEQ2's too. Once I used an SPL exciter and once I used an APHEX on a parallel mix buss. I'd got with the API if I were you. It is a known quantity and has been around the longest. It has many nice mid and low settings too. EQing the mix is not something I do as a rule, but sometimes I need to get the mix more happening and this is another way to do it. Remember, there are no rules! "If it sounds right, it's right!" Joe Meek
Old 2nd July 2009
  #79
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
I own a NightPro EQ3. I love what the "Air" and 2.5khz shelving bands do sometimes. I've used a pair of API 550A's, A-1's and 550B's in shelving mode from time to time. I've used Pultecs and Lang PEQ2's too. Once I used an SPL exciter and once I used an APHEX on a parallel mix buss. I'd got with the API if I were you. It is a known quantity and has been around the longest. It has many nice mid and low settings too. EQing the mix is not something I do as a rule, but sometimes I need to get the mix more happening and this is another way to do it. Remember, there are no rules! "If it sounds right, it's right!" Joe Meek
The original poster asked for 'air' - the Hammer does "air" WAY better than the API 5500. In my opinion.

I own both.

Old 2nd July 2009
  #80
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t-hiho's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
The original poster asked for 'air' - the Hammer does "air" WAY better than the API 5500. In my opinion.
I own both.
Right, and the Avedis does air even better than the Hammer at least to my ears. Or to be more precise: The Hammer does beautiful "air", the Avedis does the brightest "sunlight" You could ever think of without being any kinda harsh. I would recommend borrowing an Avedis pair, a Hammer and GML. Then go and see...
(I have 4x Avedis, 20x API, Great River Mastering EQ and some pultec style designs)
Old 3rd July 2009
  #81
tekis
Guest
"Air" is a subjective term, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
The original poster asked for 'air' - the Hammer does "air" WAY better than the API 5500. In my opinion.

I own both.

My NightPro EQ3 has a band called "Air." The API 550B has 20khz shelving. Some people might hear air as 7K, though. I think the API 550B can do "air" and a whole lot more than the Hammer...He also asked for a versatile eq. The Hammer is a 3 band eq with not as many frequency choices as the more versatile API 550B (which happens to include 12.k, 15k and 20k)--more air-type bands. AND it can eq the heck out of an unruly bass drum or electric guitar to boot.
Old 3rd July 2009
  #82
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-hiho View Post
The Hammer does beautiful "air", the Avedis does the brightest "sunlight" You could ever think of without being any kinda harsh.

Now that I like... "sunlight".


Gregory Scott - ubk
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Old 3rd July 2009
  #83
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
My NightPro EQ3 has a band called "Air." The API 550B has 20khz shelving. Some people might hear air as 7K, though. I think the API 550B can do "air" and a whole lot more than the Hammer...
I own Nightpro, the Hammer and share equipment with another studio that owns a 5500. Just curious if you have spent a lot of time A-Bing all of the above to come to your conclusion. I have and came to a different conclusion than yours.
Old 3rd July 2009
  #84
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
whereas a 550a (e.g.) will just smooth it right over and give you brightness like you never knew possible itb..
I was going to say 550A as well. 12.5k. A boost on the 550A right there is how my mind has defined "air" for the last 20 years.
Old 3rd July 2009
  #85
tekis
Guest
I haven't spent much time with the Hammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I own Nightpro, the Hammer and share equipment with another studio that owns a 5500. Just curious if you have spent a lot of time A-Bing all of the above to come to your conclusion. I have and came to a different conclusion than yours.

It just didn't do much for me. The Night and the 550 series (all of them) but NOT the 5500, I've been using for nearly 21 years. They are by far my favorite eqs. They are what "I grew up on." I remember when the 550B came out with its "20khz" freq and I was like "wow--stream!" Pultec EQP and Lang PEQ-2's are good up there at 15 or 16khz too. I feel like if I'm going to give advice who's a little newer than myself, I'm a fan of the VERSATILITY of the API 550 series. They can do "air", but SO much more than the Hammer, in my experience. Thanks.
Old 4th July 2009
  #86
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Hammer "Air" here.
Old 4th July 2009
  #87
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Upfront2K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
It just didn't do much for me. The Night and the 550 series (all of them) but NOT the 5500, I've been using for nearly 21 years. They are by far my favorite eqs. They are what "I grew up on." I remember when the 550B came out with its "20khz" freq and I was like "wow--stream!" Pultec EQP and Lang PEQ-2's are good up there at 15 or 16khz too. I feel like if I'm going to give advice who's a little newer than myself, I'm a fan of the VERSATILITY of the API 550 series. They can do "air", but SO much more than the Hammer, in my experience. Thanks.
I have the 5500 and the Hammer and of course a while back I owned 550Bs along with the Nightpro EQ3d needless to say I'm familiar with both. While the APIs are certainly special and more versatile than the Hammer to a degree they in no way can do "air" like the Hammer nor can they quite shape tone like a Hammer can do. Niether is necessarily better than the other as they both bring their own something special to the table. And you want to be sitting at that table. The same can be said for the Great River EQ2 NV which I own. I think Thrill once stated it sounded like a cleaner API and I've found that to be pretty on point though I'd have to add a more crisp definition. It has a sound all it's own, again neither being better just different for any given application. They all compliment each other quite nicely.

Hope that Helps
Old 4th July 2009
  #88
Gear Addict
How come nobody has mentioned the Tube TEch EQ1A ?
Geez you'd think at $5K a pop that it would a least get a mention.
Old 4th July 2009
  #89
AB3
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No mention of the IBIS either. A very sweet high end.
Old 5th July 2009
  #90
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
No mention of the IBIS either. A very sweet high end.
Actually, if you look again, you'll see the Ibis was mentioned at post #14.

It also gets mentioned at posts #42 and #74. But easy enough to miss.
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