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Neve 31105 Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 28th April 2003
  #1
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XHipHop's Avatar
Neve 31105

I just bought a pair of these racked by Dan Alexander for $1300. Not being that familiar with Neve stuff except for what i read about 1073, 1081's, 1272's, etc, what should i expect when i get these shipped to me? What sources will the 31105's be killer on?

Thanks!
Old 28th April 2003
  #2
Is this or with out the EQ'S?

$1300 for a pair sounds suspect.

Unless its a remake in which its not the real thing. I think Shep makes the same thing.


A Neve 31105 module itself raw will run you around $3K.
Old 28th April 2003
  #3
Jax
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I wish you luck with that Dan Alexander stuff. I've heard many a horror story about its poor build quailty.
Old 28th April 2003
  #4
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It's with Eq's. Let's just say that not all employees at guitar center know about boutique companies such as Dan Alexander and thus are prone to being "ripped off". I'll leave it at that. Moreover, I do have an evaluation period and can return it if not satisfired. It is a real Neve racked by D.A.

I just did a Google Groups search and apparently these are super rare (in rack form). I wish someone would give me their 2 cents as far as sound and uses though.
Old 29th April 2003
  #5
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Hi,

a racked pair of 31105 for 1300 $ ??????

Could it be that these are 33115 or modules with a 33xxx ???

If these are real 31105 (which I doubt) than it was a good deal.

31105 are the modules from a Neve 8078 console, Class AB. Pretty much like a 1081 from the EQ bands.
The difference is a relay switching from mic to line status to be switched central from the master section. And if I recall right, they have a different output transformer as the 1081.
Old 29th April 2003
  #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by toolstudio


31105 are the modules from a Neve 8078 console, Class AB. Pretty much like a 1081 from the EQ bands.
The difference is a relay switching from mic to line status to be switched central from the master section. And if I recall right, they have a different output transformer as the 1081.
I appreciate the info. But what i don't get is why when we had the 'best gear deals ever' thread all of you weren't like "yeah right, i'm sure you found a real neumann in someone's garbage. it was probably a marshall mxl." or "yeah i'm sure you got an 1176 for $400 at some radio station."

I'll post pics tommorrow when they come and hopefully I'll have some time to try them out on some different sources.
Old 29th April 2003
  #7
Maybe because it has the name Dan Alexander.

There are are 1073's out there that are not real 1073's.

Just like there are a couple of 31105 copies that are not the real thing.
Old 29th April 2003
  #8
Jax
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Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
what i don't get is why when we had the 'best gear deals ever' thread all of you weren't like "yeah right, i'm sure you found a real neumann in someone's garbage. it was probably a marshall mxl." or "yeah i'm sure you got an 1176 for $400 at some radio station."
Why don't do you get it? These kinds of steals happen all the time. Seems you go beyond skeptical right over to cynical, my friend.
Old 29th April 2003
  #9
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XHipHop's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
Why don't do you get it? These kinds of steals happen all the time.
That's my point.

Quote:
Seems you beyond beyond skeptical right over to cynical, my friend.
"Is that Latin?" - Max Fisher (from the movie Rushmore)
Old 29th April 2003
  #10
Jax
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Great flick! I was doing my best Bill Murray with the skeptical/cynical thing. Guess you had to be there...
Old 25th August 2003
  #11
Gear Head
 

A standard neve 31105 module is the mic/line input with 4 band equalizer module from a normal 8078 console.
At one time, we manufactured a stereo micpre only package that was built from modified neve 3415 line amps in a configuration that electronically (not physically) cloned the pre amp section of the 31105. we called it a dan alexander audio 31105 mic pre, although we certainly never described it as a Neve product nor does it look anything like a neve 31105. They originally sold for 900 - 1200. with power supply. they were intended as a budget cloned pre and physically they are not built like a tank. However, they sound great,and the last time we got one back for repair was at least 6 months ago. Once they are racked or placed in a rack case, there is no reason to think they will be any more trouble than the rest of your rack gear...they are simple and easy to use and repair. They sound Just like a neve module. And they sound great on ANY signal source, period!
We have racked thousands of modules, fixed and restored thousands of tube mics, pultecs,fairchilds ,langs and urei's and everything else...sold dozens and dozens of old neve consoles , etc. In 1979,we didnt know as much, nor have as much experience, nor have the internet as we do in 2003. Our "build quality" is better now than it was in 1984.
PLease check out www.danalexanderaudio .......
Old 25th August 2003
  #12
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Hi

The Neve 31105 was the four band EQ channel amplifier from a 8078 console.

An authentic 31105 will have fairly low profile dual concentric knobs, both made of charcoal grey ABS plastic, and with blue inserts in the top. Inside, the mic/line switching will be by a BA618 opto PCB and the output transformer will have a yellow label underneath that says Marinair Radar.

Plenty of fakes abound, usually quickly identifiable by the chunky and unnaturally tall Sifam collet knobs that are used because the manufacturer has no clue where to get the real ones from.

Sadly, due to the fact that a collet knob grips at the very bottom, the shafts on the switches are too short to adapt the module back to having the Neve style plastic knobs.

St Ives/Carnhill never made the output transformer for this module and I know of folk that have had issues after purchasing them that they didn't sound the same as the originals. I've posted a history of Neve transformers on my web site though you'll have to log in to read it.

A real 31105 should fetched a sight more than $1300!


Old 25th August 2003
  #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by danalexander
a standard neve 31105 is the mic/line input with 4 band equalizer module from a normal 8078 console.
at one time, we manufactured a stereo micpre only package that was built from modified neve 3415 line amps in a configuration that cloned the pre amp section of the 31105. we called it a dan alexander audio 31105 mic pre, although we never described it as a Neve product. They originally sold for 900 - 1200. with power supply. they were intended as a budget cloned pre and physically they are not built like a tank. however, they sound great,and i cant remember the last time we got one back for repair. once they are racked or placed in a rack case, there is no reason to think they will be any more trouble than the rest of your gear...
Hi Dan

Your link doesn't work when I click on it....

When you made your "not really a 31105" clone out of the 3415, did you just crank the gain on the gain boost pins or did you rewire the module to exactly replicate the wiring of the 31105?

Old 27th August 2003
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
JohnnyTooLoud's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoff_T
Hi Dan

Your link doesn't work when I click on it....

It is http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/ .

---JTL
Old 1st September 2003
  #15
Gear Head
 

geoff- i would guess ( i am not the tech that did the work,and he aint here no more) that the pre is actually identical to that in a 33114. the output tranny wouldnt be the same as in a 31105, i dont believe. we have never built a mic pre by just "cranking the gain"; we modify the circuit to emulate the neve designs. variable amp gain,etc....you are the Neve man!! dan alexander
Old 1st September 2003
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Some of you may know of this, but for those of you that don't, here's a great Neve History link:

http://www.audio-toyshop.co.uk/Tech_...h_archive.html

A little difficult to navigate, but very informative.
Old 1st September 2003
  #17
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael
Some of you may know of this, but for those of you that don't, here's a great Neve History link:

http://www.audio-toyshop.co.uk/Tech_...h_archive.html

A little difficult to navigate, but very informative.
Hi

With respect to a brave effort... it's not without inaccuracies.

For instance, a niggly point because I believe their main source of info built them, but a 1091 does not have a line input. The photo and details they have of a 1091 are incorrect.

In reality the 1091 and 1093 modules were customed designed for the 7 EMI-Neve consoles A3094-3098 and A3269/71.

Whereas the 1093, used on most of the consoles, had a mic/line input stage (and is actually the cloned one in the photo) A3096, 7 and 8 (EMI Cologne, Abbey Road, and Pathe Marconi Paris) were fitted with separate line input modules that had a Bach Simpson VU meter over a dual concentric gain switch and two source selector TJ switches. You can see this module on the Abbey Road photo on my web site.

As a consequence of having an external line input stage, with stepped and pot adjusted gain and three sources, the 1091 did NOT have a line input nor need one.

But that doesn't stop someone from making fake Neve modules, labelling it incorrectly, and then posting it on a web site to create more Neve BS.

Sigh....

Old 1st September 2003
  #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by danalexander
geoff- i would guess ( i am not the tech that did the work,and he aint here no more) that the pre is actually identical to that in a 33114. the output tranny wouldnt be the same as in a 31105, i dont believe. we have never built a mic pre by just "cranking the gain"; we modify the circuit to emulate the neve designs. variable amp gain,etc....you are the Neve man!! dan alexander
Hi Dan

Whatever you did, I'm just sad that you described it as 31105 because now we have confusion between the 12" high 4 band EQ "31105" and the modified 33415 no EQ "31105"...

As if there wasn't enough confusion with Neve titles anyway
Old 1st September 2003
  #19
Gear Head
 

geoff-considering that the dan alexander audio package is SO different than ANY neve item, anodized a totally non neve colorand DOESNT say Neve anywhere, the idea that someone would actually think the daa is a neve product is wishful thinking perhaps......they were Never represented as such. however, they sound swell...dan
Old 2nd September 2003
  #20
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by danalexander
geoff-considering that the dan alexander audio package is SO different than ANY neve item, anodized a totally non neve colorand DOESNT say Neve anywhere, the idea that someone would actually think the daa is a neve product is wishful thinking perhaps......they were Never represented as such. however, they sound swell...dan
Hi Dan

I'm sure that it's a great package and the bargain of the century...

The thing that originally brought my attention to this thread was the following...

Neve 31105
I just bought a pair of these racked by Dan Alexander for $1300. Not being that familiar with Neve stuff except for what i read about 1073, 1081's, 1272's, etc, what should i expect when i get these shipped to me? What sources will the 31105's be killer on?

Thanks!


I don't know about anyone else but it confused me! A pair of Neve 31105's for $1300... what a deal!

Except they aren't Neve 31105 Channel Amplifiers with 4 band EQ, they are Neve 33415 line amplifiers (or whatever) with no EQ.

You don't think, sight unseen, this is confusing?


Old 20th April 2004
  #21
Gear Head
 

hey - of course, in hindsight (about 10 years) , i should have called it gobbldyguk, but what can you do? A little more confusion amongst the gear slutz cant be all bad...you get to answer their emails and phone calls and i bet they camp out in front of your house with questions....damn... i should have kept all those old strats too...Goeff, lets write a book....dan alexander
Old 10th May 2009
  #22
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i thought 31105's were also in 8058's and 8068's... ?
Old 10th May 2009
  #23
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benkweller View Post
i thought 31105's were also in 8058's and 8068's... ?
Hi

Another resurrected 5 year old thread!

You think totally wrong. A 31105 is a 12" high module, the 31099 and 31102 modules in the 8058, 68 and 88 were 8.75" high.

You would need a very big hammer to fit them! 31105's came out of 8078's.

heh
Old 10th May 2009
  #24
Gear Addict
 

So I guess you bought a pair od Dan Alexander EQs Neve Style.....because Dan Says they never put neve on it.....


or ..Dan did you rack those Neve too?


I think we need Pics!
Old 10th May 2009
  #25
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Svens's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
I wish you luck with that Dan Alexander stuff. I've heard many a horror story about its poor build quailty.
You "heard".
Old 12th August 2009
  #26
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Hi Geoff

The mic pre on the 31105 is dual concentric. Is one a coarse stepped input of 5dB and the other a fine gain? Or is the top a line trim?

And do you know what the difference is between the 31105 and 31105a?

Thanks so much!
Old 12th August 2009
  #27
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
Hi Geoff

The mic pre on the 31105 is dual concentric. Is one a coarse stepped input of 5dB and the other a fine gain? Or is the top a line trim?

And do you know what the difference is between the 31105 and 31105a?

Thanks so much!
Hi

The switch is the mic gain, the pot is the line gain.

I've not heard of a 31105a but it was 30 years ago... memory dims, etc.

Old 16th November 2009
  #28
Here for the gear
 

I have a pair of 3415's racked up and converted into mic pre's with 48v etc. by Blake Devitt (as "Blakeyboys").

They sound just fine to me, but I'm no techy, anyone have an idea how the mod was done by Blake?

And again just from curiosity, which consoles did the 33415 line amps originally come from?
Old 16th November 2009
  #29
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Heal View Post
I have a pair of 3415's racked up and converted into mic pre's with 48v etc. by Blake Devitt (as "Blakeyboys").

They sound just fine to me, but I'm no techy, anyone have an idea how the mod was done by Blake?

And again just from curiosity, which consoles did the 33415 line amps originally come from?
Hi

Answer to first question would be "properly". I am sure Blake would explain how he did it if you asked him directly rather than asking here for someone's opinion of someone else's work procedures....

Answer to second question, 5312, 5315, 5316, 8058 and 68 (TB only), 8078 and many, many custom Neve consoles.

Old 17th November 2009
  #30
Gear Head
 

Greetings everybody
I did many different versions over ther the years, but, if they are 3415's and not 3416's, i generally dropped the overall module gain to 20dB,without attenuators, then gain boosted both amp stages, often with the output amp's boost lagging behind the first amp's boost by 10dB or so-this consistently gave a lower noise floor. I always make sure of all combinations before building anything. Empirical observation reaps it's own rewards, and you learn something each time. Blind copying teaches you nothing. I know this is a mantra that Geoff adheres too as well!!! ( It's also how the classic Neve stuff was done, If my past conversations with ex-Neve designers are anything to go by.)
The biggest problem with any two stage module from which you hope to get 70db of gain is how to make it do 15db only without throwing away gain and keeping a lousy noise floor. I solved this on a 24ch balancing console I have (Kelso sized) that was built for a British TV company. It was fitted with 3416's, which I swapped out for 3415's, and decided to make them 1093's without EQ. To do this, you have to bring the unused pin ( 7? ) on the 438 stage into play by fitting the extra socket and building the gain boost around the 1081/1091/1093 component values. This works a treat, as it obviously would. If you don't bring the extra pin into play, all you have is a gain boosted line amp, nothing more. That pin is used on the channel amps, which is how so much gain is on the first amp with no problems. You try this sort of boost on a 438 without this type of circuit and see what happens. The designers at Neve _really_ knew what they were doing. There are loads of ways of making a module into a mic amp, and ,with a Neve module , it's very difficult to make it sound lousy, though I have seen it one a few times! Making an accurate sounding imitation of a particular channel amp requires a bit more work and attention to detail,and this is difficult to justify when sitting in an expensive workshop with loads of employees, which is why I guess no-one does commercially.
I am wondering whether those '33115' units are Shep modules are in fact the line only '33116' modules made about 15 years ago with class A output stages. They were well made,and so long as the caps are OK, they should sound great, but I still prefer the original tertiary wound output transformers on drums.........B.
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