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Need a good Small Diaphram condenser
Old 29th June 2009
  #31
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Buy Beyerdynamic MC 930 Small Diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

your answer. in that price range, I would also be looking atthe AT 4041, 4049, and 4022. AT consistently amazes me. Best value in audio... you *may* be able to find a Gefell SMS70 series(mv692 with one of the caps) for a great price..those are also really nice.

never heard any noise when i had c42 Josephson, on any source, whether quiet or loud. I find it rather incredible that some folks condemn mics for noise values while in the same breath lauding microphones(km84) that are noisy as all hell. guess the noise is ok though because they are old and so and so uses them, they are vintage, doooood.

lifes funny like that. heh at any rate,

along with the above, id be looking at

Gefell m300s

Gefell m200

Gefell m295

c42


no 184s or sennheisers for me, thanks.
Old 29th June 2009
  #32
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Quote:
guess the noise is ok though because they are old and so and so uses them,
I find that quite offensive Teddy especially from someone who is always keen to jump on the rudeness of others.

I am also quite suprised when you know that I, along with yourself, do a lot of acoustic recording where noise can certainly be a consideration.

That aside, the fact of the matter is that the C42 is a noisier microphone than some others that I choose to use, and as I already stated, that might or might not be an issue for some people depending on application and other considerations.

the same can be said for the miniature DPA's and, like the C42, their price also reflects that...

The KM84 is noisy but, because of its other attributes, that fact can sometimes be deemed less of an issue in certain applications. And I personally couldnt give a rats ass who uses them and for what purpose BTW
Old 29th June 2009
  #33
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la grange's Avatar
 

Haven't tried the 69 yet but the 84 is awesome as a mic with personality.
sure it might be a bit noisy but nothing that can't be dealt with. Specially with nowadays preamps.
Big plus on this one
Oli
Old 29th June 2009
  #34
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Since we found (yes!) our 582, we've never found anything better for acoustic guitar. But I've used an 84, and liked it. The new Neumann (not Gefell) SDC have no life in them.
Old 29th June 2009
  #35
Sen
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Sen's Avatar
I like shure KSm137 on snare..usually needs the pad in..sounds good with it too.
Old 29th June 2009
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
Well noise isnt a problem for me until it distracts me from the source and with the C42 it did just that. A nice mic otherwise but I guess in the end you get what you pay for.
YMMV. It's interesting to me that it's been a problem for you, since mine are very quiet.

I don't see how the cost reflects the noise specs though. There are certainly more expensive mics that are noisier, and less expensive mics that are quieter.

I recently had the fortunate opportunity to record with a KM86 (more than twice the cost of a single C42), and it was one of the noisiest mics I've ever used. A LOT noisier than my C42s.

.... but I didn't care, because it sounded good. I'll just say "it's tape hiss man" .

Not trying to be argumentative... just food for thought.
Old 29th June 2009
  #37
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warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman4254 View Post
I need a really good quality SD condenser for my small studio. I will be using it for snare and acoustic gtrs.
I own a pair of original KM84 in great shape, and still reach for the Oktava MK-012 on acoustic guitar most times. I would consider one of the "MSP6" sets which gives you two bodies and 6 factory matched capsules with omni, hyper and cardioid capsules so you could tackle lots of jobs with them.

Don't let the low price fool you, the MK-012 is a serious performer and those kits are outstanding. That omni capsule impresses me more and more also, just a very natural sort of sound with great detail and low noise, and pressure design of course that you can stick right on top of anything without bass response issues. All 3 capsules have a different sort of tone to them too.

War
Old 29th June 2009
  #38
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman4254 View Post
I need a really good quality SD condenser for my small studio. I will be using it for snare and acoustic gtrs. I bought a matched pair of rode nt5 for overheads when I first got started and I want to sell them for a good single mic. I have 2 shure ksm44's that I use for overheads, vocals, gtrs, everything. Im looking for a single mic that I can get for under(a good bit) $1000 new

I have been looking at the Neumann km184 and km 84, the shure sm81, and the josephson c42.

What kinds of recommendations can I get on these or any other SD condenser for my purpose?

Also, what do you guys think about selling one of the shure ksm44's and getting 2 high quality small condensers? The only reason that I own 2 ksm44's is for drum overheads. I only use one of the 44's obviously for vox, but also for acoustic gtrs. So are there any suggestions on maybe for a good pair of small condensers that would fare better that the 44's for overheads?
Hi vanman,
I think you would be better off with a Neumann KM40 than a KM184, way smoother...

If you can save and buy a Schoeps MK4 then you'll have a VERY GOOD SMC!

Cheers,
Pupo
Old 29th June 2009
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
If you love KM-84's [and I know I do] when we built the KM-69 it's goal was to replace a KM-84 [which I didn't have and couldn't find a great one that was for sale for under $2,500].
$2500 USD????? I don't think I've ever seen them that high. When did the price go up on them?
Old 29th June 2009
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I own a pair of original KM84 in great shape, and still reach for the Oktava MK-012 on acoustic guitar most times. I would consider one of the "MSP6" sets which gives you two bodies and 6 factory matched capsules with omni, hyper and cardioid capsules so you could tackle lots of jobs with them.

Don't let the low price fool you, the MK-012 is a serious performer and those kits are outstanding. That omni capsule impresses me more and more also, just a very natural sort of sound with great detail and low noise, and pressure design of course that you can stick right on top of anything without bass response issues. All 3 capsules have a different sort of tone to them too.

War
I have a pair of mk-012 and they are probably one of my least favorite mics I've ever used. They just flat out suck. If microphones were wine, the mk-012 would be 'blue nun'.

However, with all the people on this site raving about them, I'm seriously beginning to think something is wrong with mine.
Old 30th June 2009
  #41
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Beyer MC930 is a very nice mic, with an extremely good price.

Loan one and try it.. You'll probably like the top end especially.
Old 30th June 2009
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EqnoixStudios View Post
I have a pair of mk-012 and they are probably one of my least favorite mics I've ever used. They just flat out suck. If microphones were wine, the mk-012 would be 'blue nun'.

However, with all the people on this site raving about them, I'm seriously beginning to think something is wrong with mine.
Well, if I'm not mistaken, quality control was always questionable with Oktava mics. So it isn't entirely surprising that one person's experience would be wildly different from the next. I've even heard said that the Chinese Oktava knock-offs are better in this regard (though Michael Joly hates them and won't touch them).
Old 30th June 2009
  #43
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Just to clarify:

Oktava did have QC issues at the end of their time being sold at Guitar Center

Chinese knockoffs were only temporarily available at Guitar Center, and those days are long gone

Oktava dropped GC and went straight to "mom and pop" smaller sellers via the Oktava USA distributor in Iowa. Their quality control has been excellent, they sell less mics at a higher price rather than the Wal-Mart style of churning out crap that GC preferred.

War
Old 30th June 2009
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Just to clarify:

Oktava did have QC issues at the end of their time being sold at Guitar Center

Chinese knockoffs were only temporarily available at Guitar Center, and those days are long gone

Oktava dropped GC and went straight to "mom and pop" smaller sellers via the Oktava USA distributor in Iowa. Their quality control has been excellent, they sell less mics at a higher price rather than the Wal-Mart style of churning out crap that GC preferred.

War
Good to know. I knew nothing about the quality issues until I happened to stumble on a closeout deal at our local GC—MK012's for $69—that I couldn't pass up. Only then did I learn about the hot Russian/Chinese authenticity controversy, and, of course, that I'd bought the copies. I've still gotten good use out of them as tom mics and on tablas and other percussion, but don't like them on acoustic. But hearing people rave about them in that capacity has me interested in possibly getting ahold of at least one "real" version.

Identifying the Chinese models is easy enough, but is there a way to identify the Russian versions that were manufactured after the GC debacle, that are more likely to be superior? Or is it just a safe bet to buy new?
Old 30th June 2009
  #45
Gear Head
 

Are you not getting the sound your looking for out of the KSM 44's?

Pretty good and versatile mic IMO
Old 30th June 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I own a pair of original KM84 in great shape, and still reach for the Oktava MK-012 on acoustic guitar most times. I would consider one of the "MSP6" sets which gives you two bodies and 6 factory matched capsules with omni, hyper and cardioid capsules so you could tackle lots of jobs with them.

Don't let the low price fool you, the MK-012 is a serious performer and those kits are outstanding. That omni capsule impresses me more and more also, just a very natural sort of sound with great detail and low noise, and pressure design of course that you can stick right on top of anything without bass response issues. All 3 capsules have a different sort of tone to them too.

War
I will have to agree with the MK-012. I have it (mk-012) the SM81 and the km184. I use the SM81 on acoustic gtr and overhead drums when I want more pick noise on the acoustic, or ping on cymbals, the MK-012 minimizes the pick and ping and the 184 is right down the middle. Thankfully I have not been spoiled by having a KM84 so I think the km184 sounds great. the SM81 is a bit strident, but at times that is what you may want, the Oktava is very pretty sounding, got mine for 100.00 with three capsules . I have had good results with the 451 and the audio technica SDC as well. I also like using my little EV 635's and RE20's with the AEA TRP. I think the combination of that pre and a dynamic is pretty wonderful.
Old 30th June 2009
  #47
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EqnoixStudios's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Just to clarify:

Oktava did have QC issues at the end of their time being sold at Guitar Center

Chinese knockoffs were only temporarily available at Guitar Center, and those days are long gone

Oktava dropped GC and went straight to "mom and pop" smaller sellers via the Oktava USA distributor in Iowa. Their quality control has been excellent, they sell less mics at a higher price rather than the Wal-Mart style of churning out crap that GC preferred.

War
Thanks for telling me this. I did check though, they aren't the ones from China, at least according to the information on the web about spotting the fake ones.

I'll probably end up selling them and putting the money towards the one mic I've been saving up for. The Brauner VM1.
Old 1st July 2009
  #48
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There is a shootout with the Oktava and 5 other cardio SDCs (Audio Technica, Josephson, Rode, Samson, Schoeps) on piano here: Six cardio SDC pairs on grand piano
Old 1st July 2009
  #49
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Good to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EqnoixStudios View Post
Thanks for telling me this.
No worries, and I am cool whether anybody likes a Russian mic or not, new or old. I just wanted to be sure that there was no confusion continued on with the Oktava mess that is years old now. I still get contacts from people all the time asking if they are Chinese etc.

Buying new Oktava mics from an authorized dealer in the USA guarantees a great mic, of course at a higher price than the old GC days though.

War
Old 1st July 2009
  #50
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Kris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I own a pair of original KM84 in great shape, and still reach for the Oktava MK-012 on acoustic guitar most times.
War
I thought I'd finish your sentence for you...

"because I want to keep my 84s in great shape for future resale purposes... NOT because the mk-012s make acoustic guitar sound better."
Old 1st July 2009
  #51
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
I thought I'd finish your sentence for you...

"because I want to keep my 84s in great shape for future resale purposes... NOT because the mk-012s make acoustic guitar sound better."
Yeah, these acoustic guitar players keep using asbestos picks and I hate it when that stuff gunks up my Neumann capsules!!!

haha

No, seriously....I love what the MK-012 does for my ac gtr tracks...real-i-o...and what not...

War
Old 1st July 2009
  #52
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kyle lee's Avatar
 

Studer SKM5 is the only one I've ever used that truly blew my mind. I know it's the same as one of the Schoeps...I believe the CMC5.
Old 1st July 2009
  #53
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lm66's Avatar
Schoeps CM5 or CMC6 with caps you need are one of the good choices.

I found Oktava MC012 useful though a little bit noisy.
Old 10th July 2009
  #54
Gear Nut
 

What do you guys think about using MC012 for Drum OHs?
Old 11th July 2009
  #55
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VicD View Post
What do you guys think about using MC012 for Drum OHs?
The MK-012 has great depth for sure, it really reaches down low for a full kit sound. Cymbals are natural with a slight lift. On drums and acoustic instruments I find them to deliver the "wood" and body of things nicely.

War
Old 11th July 2009
  #56
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Jonathan Starr's Avatar
 

Lot of nice choices. Too bad that 84's aren't still available. They are excellent.

The Schoeps (mk21 wide card is my favorite) and DPA's are excellent without compromise.

Recently a friend brought over one of the new Sennheiser 8040's and we used it in place of my CMC6/Mk21 for recording an old Gibson SJD playing slack key. It was really good, close to the Schoeps and a lot less expensive.

I don't think any of the other choices are as easy to get great sounds from. I went through finicky Km184's, Gefell M300's, 4041's and modded Oktavas and the small Peluso's before getting the Schoeps. Wish I had just spent the bucks for them the first time around.

The older Schoeps, the CMT series without interchangeable caps, sound just as good as the new CMC ones and are occasionally available on evilbay for around 700 bucks. I have a bunch of these, ugly beaters which work perfectly, which I use for remote work since my minty CMC's don't leave the studio.

Last edited by Jonathan Starr; 11th July 2009 at 01:55 AM.. Reason: mistake
Old 11th July 2009
  #57
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr View Post
Lot of nice choices. close to the Schoeps and a lot less expensive.
The prices for CMC6 + MK21 and MKH 8040 from Thomann are about 1300 € and 1200 €.
Old 4th August 2009
  #58
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I'm on a similar search. I have a pair of KM184s that I like for some things, but as everyone says, the highs can be problematic. I'd love a mint pair of KM84's, but they are getting harder and harder to find. Has anyone compared the Gefell M295 with the Beyer MC930? Those look like a couple of good options?
Old 6th August 2009
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
The C42 is too noisy for acoustic sources (unless within a dense mix perhaps), the KM184 is a bit scratchy and the KM84 is beautifully lush with some 'acceptable' transformer noise.
My pair of C42's are not noisy at all. In fact, I'd call them quiet. They are very hot, and so you can keep the preamp gain down, making them even quieter. Could some of you guys complaining about noisy C42's have gotten bad ones? I did a test and maxxxed the gains on my Pacifica with the C42's--totally quiet--except for the miles-away construction sounds that they were picking up through the walls of my studio! I'm using my own ears, not the spec sheet. C42's are sweet mics, less dull on OH than SM81's, which need a lot of eq, IMHO.
Old 6th August 2009
  #60
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SDC Mics

My two cents.... We now own two Neumann KM84's and two Gefell 692's with two each of the UM70 and M70 capsules (Thanks to Dr. Bill's shootout). But it took me a while to find decent used mics at the price I was willing to pay. In the interim, the Mercenary Guys sent me the MGefell 295 and 296's to try. I kept the 295, it's a great little mic, works great on acoustic guitars. FWIW.....
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