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Soundelux E47 or Wunder CM7 GT
Old 2nd June 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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TheMarqueeYears's Avatar
 

Yes true.

I was just going on other clips I have of yours where you are singing in your higher voice.

You do make me laugh though.

The point is, your such a good singer that you of all people don't need to worry about these things.

We're talking about differences that only a Slut could pick. Your fans will simply focus on the photo not the frame. Yes you need a great mic, of course, but ALL the mics you have had are great.

I actually loved the Tele251va on your voice, I thought it was fantastic.

I have recordings of Steve Winwood with traffic where he has clearly used the wrong mic, but boy I still love his voice.

Really, man you've got the main ingredient - TALENT!

However your search for the "holy grail" is/has been fun to watch!

Best
Rob
Old 2nd June 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears View Post
Yes true.

I was just going on other clips I have of yours where you are singing in your higher voice.

You do make me laugh though.

The point is, your such a good singer that you of all people don't need to worry about these things.

We're talking about differences that only a Slut could pick. Your fans will simply focus on the photo not the frame. Yes you need a great mic, of course, but ALL the mics you have had are great.

I actually loved the Tele251va on your voice, I thought it was fantastic.

I have recordings of Steve Winwood with traffic where he has clearly used the wrong mic, but boy I still love his voice.

Really, man you've got the main ingredient - TALENT!

However your search for the "holy grail" is/has been fun to watch!

Best
Rob
What he said!

Let us know when your CD is done so we can all buy it. We won't care if you used a CM7 or Korby, Neve, or Manley pre; regardless of which mic or pre you use, you sound amazing. Your production is also up the with what I hear on the radio. I have not been able to get an acoustic guitar in my studio to sit and sound so well with vocals like you have done on "Your like the Ocean". CM7-GT and 2247 LE samples
Old 2nd June 2009 | Show parent
  #33
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mdjice's Avatar
 

NO!!I won't buy his CD if he didn't record it using a vintage U47 (WITH VF14 of course!), into a neve and a la2a, i don't care how good he sounds, this is GEARSLUTZ!!! LMAOhehhehheh
no but seriously...stop making test and trying to find the gear just put a cd out !!! I will buy it too and it's not even my kind of musicthumbsup
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
Thanks, guys...I've got to work on getting a digital cd out...Basically, they're all demos. I have a bunch of songs you can either stream or buy here: John Kennedy - ReverbNation

Back on topic...I wonder why no cheaper mics can just roll off the top and try and get the EQ curve the same as a typical 47? I guess that's a simplistic thing to say...
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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DeepSpace's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Back on topic...I wonder why no cheaper mics can just roll off the top and try and get the EQ curve the same as a typical 47? I guess that's a simplistic thing to say...
Hi John,
Frankly, I think that is exactly what a number of the cheaper mics try to do, but while it may get them in the general ball-park superficially, it doesn't get them all the way there. Several look (on paper) like they should stack up to the real deal, but they don't really deliver.

My take is that there are several other things going on with the classic mics that go beyond the response curve - to do with both resonances and harmonic distortion - and maybe also the handling of transients - that may contribute to the response curve, but are not adequately measured by it.

That's because the response curve is not much more than a series of quantitative measures and is two-dimensional (amplitude vs freq) and does not adequately capture or reflect the qualitative dimension. You can determine how *much* high end, high mids etc is present, but it's another thing altogether to get them so sound the same (silky, thick, smooth et al). For example, there is a particular quality of mid-forwardness, mid thickness and high end silk that I hear in a '47 that often-as-not translates to a certain honkiness in the wannabe mics, even though their FR may look promising.

The CM7 gets closer than most. FWIW, the Wagner totally nails it. Can't comment on the E47, as I haven't used it.
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Thanks, guys...I've got to work on getting a digital cd out...Basically, they're all demos. I have a bunch of songs you can either stream or buy here: John Kennedy - ReverbNation

...
Great stuff!
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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ARIEL's Avatar
Vocal sound was excellent ! warm and lush , smooth as well - whoever said it was thin and harsh may have to get new speakers I am just astonished at some ears or comments at times- but i guess we all listen differently .
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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Tube World's Avatar
John, when are you going to finish "Your like an ocean"? I have played that sample so many times.
Old 3rd June 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky View Post
Hi John,
Frankly, I think that is exactly what a number of the cheaper mics try to do, but while it may get them in the general ball-park superficially, it doesn't get them all the way there. Several look (on paper) like they should stack up to the real deal, but they don't really deliver.

My take is that there are several other things going on with the classic mics that go beyond the response curve - to do with both resonances and harmonic distortion - and maybe also the handling of transients - that may contribute to the response curve, but are not adequately measured by it.

That's because the response curve is not much more than a series of quantitative measures and is two-dimensional (amplitude vs freq) and does not adequately capture or reflect the qualitative dimension. You can determine how *much* high end, high mids etc is present, but it's another thing altogether to get them so sound the same (silky, thick, smooth et al). For example, there is a particular quality of mid-forwardness, mid thickness and high end silk that I hear in a '47 that often-as-not translates to a certain honkiness in the wannabe mics, even though their FR may look promising.

The CM7 gets closer than most. FWIW, the Wagner totally nails it. Can't comment on the E47, as I haven't used it.
You are correct on the complexity on making a microphone. To design a good capacitor capsule is extremely complex and very expensive. Many parameters are needed to consider from the diaphragm material, shape, thickness and tension. There is also spacing on the back plate, signal connection, isolation dielectrics, polarizing voltage and damping arrangement. Other factors that come into play include the rear chamber labyrinth, which affects the linearity of the off-axis frequency response. Once the capsule has been designed, it has to be mounted to a mic body. The grill size and shape all come into play on the tonality of the capsule. There is the impedance converter circuitry, powering circuitry, and output circuitry — all of which affect the sound of the mic further.

A lot of the cheaper mic's as you said can get close, but to nail it is expensive. This is the reason why many engineers are more attracted to getting a Neumann, Brauner, Korby, Wunder, Bock, higher end Telefunken, etc. because these guys got it right on many of their mic's. I have my eyes on the Brauner Valvet X for my next tube mic, by the way.

Tube World, I also love Your like an Ocean song, but I think John told me his producer did not think it was strong enough. Perhaps if we get a petition going on gearslutz, we can encourage John to finish the song. Heck the demo sounded pretty good. Just finish singing the rest of the song, and we will buy it. heh
Old 4th June 2009
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
europa78's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tguy View Post
Any thoughts here? Both are used and for sale for aaround the same price. Any direct comparisons? Thanks!

-Tguy
Used to have an e47 no complaints. they're both great. get the Wunder, it looks cooler.

Look are important, makes you excited again. Aint that why we buy?
Old 4th June 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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Hammer Mark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
This is saying that anyone who doesn't pick the Korby has no taste? That would be uncharacteristically harsh and, of course, inaccurate. I must be confused.
To say that "you can't account for taste" is not at all the same as "if you disagree with me, you lack taste". It just means that in the subjective area of "taste" you just can't predict what people will choose.
Old 4th June 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Mark View Post
To say that "you can't account for taste" is not at all the same as "if you disagree with me, you lack taste". It just means that in the subjective area of "taste" you just can't predict what people will choose.
Understood, but on the tails of "I give up" it had a different ring to it. Anyway, John clarified.
Old 4th June 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
I also love Your like an Ocean song, but I think John told me his producer did not think it was strong enough.
If that's the case then it's time for a new producer.
Old 4th June 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
There was no producer - these were just demos to try and get songs cut...The people at my last publishing deal just didn't get it...Plus, in this market, it's hard to get a song like that cut...So, I just kind of bailed on it. You guys are making me want to finish it though! I don't know how I would, though...that was about 5 mics, one pedal steel, several amps and 9 guitars ago... heh (Yes, I have a problem) That'd be a bitch trying to match all of that.
Old 5th June 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
There was no producer - these were just demos to try and get songs cut...The people at my last publishing deal just didn't get it...Plus, in this market, it's hard to get a song like that cut...So, I just kind of bailed on it. You guys are making me want to finish it though! I don't know how I would, though...that was about 5 mics, one pedal steel, several amps and 9 guitars ago... heh (Yes, I have a problem) That'd be a bitch trying to match all of that.
Dont' you have the song on your DAW? I would be curious to know how many tracks, and parts are on the song. It sounds so amazing...professional........full.....detailed......with a great melody........honest.......free of a dated sound.........a touch country, a touch folk.....sort of like your own sound.......James Taylor look out, here comes John.
Old 6th June 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Thanks, guys...I've got to work on getting a digital cd out...Basically, they're all demos. I have a bunch of songs you can either stream or buy here: John Kennedy - ReverbNation

Back on topic...I wonder why no cheaper mics can just roll off the top and try and get the EQ curve the same as a typical 47? I guess that's a simplistic thing to say...
Hey John, I tried to download the songs but it says that it is not available? The download area is grayed out.

Personally I like your acoustic songs the best. Never realized how great a pedal steel guitar sounds. Besides your like the ocean song, the other song that starts out "once a year" is not on there either. Those two are my favorite out of everything I have heard. However I also like Choosing to believe, Just like yesterday, Every little feeling, Edge of the world, and Clearly.
Old 7th June 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
Hey John, I tried to download the songs but it says that it is not available? The download area is grayed out.

Personally I like your acoustic songs the best. Never realized how great a pedal steel guitar sounds. Besides your like the ocean song, the other song that starts out "once a year" is not on there either. Those two are my favorite out of everything I have heard. However I also like Choosing to believe, Just like yesterday, Every little feeling, Edge of the world, and Clearly.
Well, thanks! I think those are only available to stream or buy there...I'll post another home thing I just finished in the "Work In Progress" forum so I quit hijacking this thread...
Old 7th June 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Maniac
 
kjetillunde's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
By no means did I mean for this to get into a thread about my vocal sound...I am just passionate about what I think sounds good...and you guys are right, the sibilance could be subdued a little.
I spent a TON of time trying to love a U47...I found a vintage 47's that I thought sounded fantastic - they didn't have that "bite" in the 2-4.5K range - something I find more annoying than sibilance...Clone wise, I was never able to find one that I thought had that incredibly smooth top end with the big thick bottom. The last CM7 I had - after trying a bunch of different heads from Mike, came the closest. Ultimately, I think I started leaning towards wanting that clean, precise, un-colored sound on vocals...I just missed that pristine top end.
I was kind of trying to be funny with my response about choosing the Korby - sorry it took this thread off topic and I came off as a smartass. I prefer that sound. However, I wouldn't be scared to record on a Wunder mic for ONE SECOND. They're great mics and sound fantastic on the right singers.
Have you tried a Soundelux 251? How is the "bite" in the 2-4.5K range compared to the Soundelux U47?
Old 7th June 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
I tried a Soundelux 251 briefly a while back but I didn't have it long enough to really work with it...I remember thinking it was really nice, though...The Tele 251V AC was pretty much bad ass though...
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #50
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Agno's Avatar
 

Man where are all the E47 users? I'd like to hear their impressions on both mics and what they thought.
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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I really like my e47. Before there were 8 million u47 cones out there, many respectable people stated that it was every bit as good as 90% of the u47's they had heard. I think David Bock knows what he is doing. And for the prices you can find them for now (recession and all) they are a steal.
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlesaustin View Post
I really like my e47. Before there were 8 million u47 cones out there, many respectable people stated that it was every bit as good as 90% of the u47's they had heard. I think David Bock knows what he is doing. And for the prices you can find them for now (recession and all) they are a steal.
Have you compared the CM7-GT to the E47? That's really what I'm curious about. I'm sure Soundelux going under around the time that the GT was released (if I'm not mistaken) has a lot to do how many people were able to compare the two. Still I want to know their opinions. Who chose the E47 over the CM7-GT?
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Nut
 

I didn't think you could buy a new e47 or e47c anymore .... I bought one of the last two e47c's in Oz last year ....

I HAVE a soundelux e47c and love it to pieces .... it is a most exciting mike on all sources .... vocals (m/fm), ac gtr, bass cab, overheads ..... it seems to bring out mojo in everything I record with it .... I experiment with mike placement a lot and it brings stunning results .... great mic, david, .... cardiod only, but is possibly my go to mike .... but ....

I also have a Gefell um900 which has a traditional Neuman (gefell) m7 capsule (as I understand it) .... it is also totally awesome in a less obvious way .... possibly flatter frequency reponse .... maybe more 'accurate' (less 'colored' or more accurately less subtlely 'hyped') than the e47 .... and takes eq very nicely .... so these days ....

I always set up both because sometimes the e47c does it's magic and at others, the gefell just sounds more balanced or rich or m7ish ....

I compared and bought these two over the cm7gt because they had more character, depth, sweetness, etc, and it was one of the last new e47's to be gotten ....

I do occasionally lust after a cm7 or wagner 47 but they are twice as expensive as the e47c and you can get the gefell at a really competitive price....

Either mike would be amazing ....

I have plenty of other work to do before my skill levels catch up to the euphonic perfection and pleasure of any of these great mikes .... enjoy whichever you get ....

Michael V
Tassie

Last edited by beginagain; 23rd August 2009 at 11:27 AM.. Reason: typos, more info
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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Agno's Avatar
 

Still looking for someone who's chose the E47 over the CM7-GT
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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One thing that always sort puzzles me about 47 threads.....there is no one 47 sound-there is a range of them. Posters write as though there is an absolute. Most folks who rent them/use them frequently (or own several) are quick to point out they are all different. Some amazing, some great, some OK and some that are just not good at all. So comments here along the lines of "I heard XYZ mic smoke a real 47" could mean almost anything from a nice mic to rubbish. Some 47's sound their best as the original transformer begins to fail (and cannot be replaced exactly)...

And to the posts that discuss the enormous array of variables that contribute to the end sound-spot on. I always must remind myself that it is the transducers we know the least about scientifically. The combination of electrical, mechanical and acoustical issues that combine is mind boggling and mysterious even now. It is not coincidental that it is one of the areas in pro audio that is an artform led by the most experienced........

Brad
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beginagain View Post

I compared and bought these two over the cm7gt because they had more character, depth, sweetness, etc, and it was one of the last new e47's to be gotten ....

Michael V
Tassie
Thanks for updating/adding that detail.
Old 23rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #57
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 

I love my pair of e47s, but I've only used them on low brass and low strings where they are incredible at giving copious amounts of low-end beef with clear extended highs. And, I did use them as a stereo pair on a brass-ensemble recording (huge Viennese polka band, actually), and they sounded friggin' amazing.

Never used any on vocals, because I don't need all that low end getting in the way, and there are other mics that sound as nice in their own way from the mids up.

Never compared with anything else because I'm totally happy with our e47s and don't need another pair.

yet...

Greg

.
Old 24th August 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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UpNSmoke's Avatar
 

I have owned both the E47 and the CM7GT, and while I prefer the sound of the latter -- the E47 was definitely a better built mic in my opinion. And to top it off I've had a hell of a time with wunder audio trying to get my CM7GT repaired. I had the mic for little over a year, and I had quality control issues with it -- specifically a white noise sound that would intermittently cut in and out. I first sent the cable back to them to be repaired, and they found that there were problems with it, and supposedly fixed it and sent it back to me all the while charging me $40 for FedEx shipping.

After I got the cable back, I still had problems with the mic. So I agreed to send the mic in with the power supply to be looked at, at my own expense. Mind you I've only had the mic a little over a year. This was last month, and I haven't heard back from anybody at wunder about the status of my mic. I've called quite often, and also e-mailed Mike -- but have yet to hear anything about the repair status.

So while the CM7GT is a great sounding mic for the price, you might want to keep that in the consideration. It surprises me that Mike would do this, as he seemed nice enough over the phone -- but I'm pretty much done with Wunder.
Old 24th August 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
I have owned both the E47 and the CM7GT, and while I prefer the sound of the latter -- the E47 was definitely a better built mic in my opinion. And to top it off I've had a hell of a time with wunder audio trying to get my CM7GT repaired. I had the mic for little over a year, and I had quality control issues with it -- specifically a white noise sound that would intermittently cut in and out. I first sent the cable back to them to be repaired, and they found that there were problems with it, and supposedly fixed it and sent it back to me all the while charging me $40 for FedEx shipping.

After I got the cable back, I still had problems with the mic. So I agreed to send the mic in with the power supply to be looked at, at my own expense. Mind you I've only had the mic a little over a year. This was last month, and I haven't heard back from anybody at wunder about the status of my mic. I've called quite often, and also e-mailed Mike -- but have yet to hear anything about the repair status.

So while the CM7GT is a great sounding mic for the price, you might want to keep that in the consideration. It surprises me that Mike would do this, as he seemed nice enough over the phone -- but I'm pretty much done with Wunder.
That sucks that you're going through that, but Mike seems like a good enough guy. I'm sure that there's a good reason for you not getting a response. I'd pm him on here as well if you haven't tried that. Good luck with your situation.
Old 24th August 2009 | Show parent
  #60
I've heard them both a lot over the years, if anyone is interested in my opinion please give me a call.
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