The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Looking For L.A. Area Mixing Engineer for Digital Performer project
Old 8th August 2005
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Looking For L.A. Area Mixing Engineer for Digital Performer project

Hello,
Just joined the site today but I've been lurking for several months now. I've learned a ton and am amazed at everyone's generosity in sharing their knowledge.

So my band and I recorded a bunch of songs in a studio on 2" tape and then dumped to Protools. I've been working in Digital Performer at home adding vocals and fixing/adding guitar stuff. Originally I thought I wanted to do the mixes myself but the deeper I get into the recording thing the more ridiculous I realize it is to think I can learn in a few months what a good engineer has learned over many years. If someone has been as into engineering as I've been into guitar over a decade or two, how could they not be light years ahead of me?

My band is Guitar/Bass/Drums/Vocals, pop rock somewhere between Radiohead and Led Zeppelin. I want to go back into a good studio here (L.A.) with a really good engineer and mix the stuff so that it lives up to it's potential. I realize the engineer will be limited somewhat by the fact that they didn't have a hand in the recording of the tracks, but I'm sure they'll be able to take it to a much higher level than I could trying to do it myself. I'd like to use someone whose work I'm familiar with if I can afford to.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments, and sorry about the long message.

Option
Old 8th August 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 
zimv20's Avatar
 

is there a reason that the mix engineer must work in DP? everything should be dump-out-able.
Old 8th August 2005
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Looking For L.A. Mixing Engineer for Digital Performer project

I was under the impression that if I export the tracks out of DP (as SDII?), not all of the information will export into Protools. Please correct me if I'm wrong (quite likely).

Option
Old 8th August 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 
zimv20's Avatar
 

if you fully render the track, then it'll have all the plug-in changes on it in the audio file. same w/ the edits you made.

but if you're paying a pro to mix it, do you really want him to have to use your track w/ the plug-in changes? or should he use his own EQ, compression, etc...

in short, you can do whatever you want, but first you must decide what you want.
Old 9th August 2005
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Great! So you're saying I CAN mix it in Protools? That sure opens up my options on where I can mix. And no, I definitely don't want to use my plug-ins.

That being said, who would you recommend in LA for my project? Probably can't afford world-class but would like to get some great mixes on about 8 songs for a grand or two. Am I dreaming?

Option
Old 9th August 2005
  #6
Lives for gear
 
zimv20's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Option
Great! So you're saying I CAN mix it in Protools?
absolutely. just export all your tracks as AIFFs (or WAVs, or SDIIs, iow, audio files) from the beginning of the song and you're good to go.

can't help you on finding an LA mixer, sorry.
Old 9th August 2005
  #7
Gear Addict
 
DC11's Avatar
 

PM me. We'll see what we can do.
Old 9th August 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Option
8 songs for a grand or two. Am I dreaming?

Option
Total for all 8? Or per song? If it's $2k for all 8 I'd say
that's pretty low for anybody with a track record.
Old 9th August 2005
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by recorderman
... I'd say
that's pretty low for anybody with a track record.
That's pretty low for anybody.
Old 9th August 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 
audioez's Avatar
 

at the same time you must start somewhere,
Old 9th August 2005
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioez
at the same time you must start somewhere,


Then you should do it for free.



Because it drives what we can make further down.



Its a struggle as it is these days trying to get payed what you feel you are worth.



If we continue hurting financially who is going to support the studios?
Old 9th August 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Lord Fear's Avatar
 

PM me i could totally help you out with that...
Old 9th August 2005
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Then you should do it for free.
That is totally selfish....and 'bent'.

Either be 'good' enough...be at a 'specific level defined by whatever (and have the track record) to charge $10,000 to mix a record...or do it for free?

Earth to Thrill...Hello?.... ...hey bro...What about the majority of folks who are 'in between' those levels? 'The MOST of rest of the world' folks?

This isn't a major release...this isn't even an Indy release...This is SELF produced..HOME recorded album....PLEASE show some support for that market.

Where and when does an 'inspiring' "up and coming or bonafide mix person, engineer, or producer get paid?
When is it 'OK' to accept money for your years of experience? (Despite your track record)
It's not through 'years' of Interning at some successful studio...


Quote:
Because it drives what we can make further down.
Gee...wonder why the industry turned this way?

Doesn't anybody ever consider why musicians chose SELF recording?

Quote:
Its a struggle as it is these days trying to get payed what you feel you are worth.
In business...any product is only worth as much as your customer is willing to pay...And if you charge too much..Someone else will be HAPPY to do as good of a job for less.
It is a struggle for EVERYBODY Thrill...the musicians as well...It is a struggle for the 'Indy level mixer..a struggle for the basement studio...this isn't 1975~ or even 1990~ We all have to survive and the 'studio' 'over charge' has been dying (not suddenly) for years.

The studio is not part of the Music business mass machine anymore.

Quote:
If we continue hurting financially who is going to support the studios?
Why save YOU...why not save ME?
Who cares about YOU when I need to care about ME?
Who cares about 'another' head in my beer story? ...I have my own....

The 'pro audio' industry is alive and BOOMMING...It is only the expensive, high overhead studios who are having trouble...few people can AFFORD them.

You want to support the 'studios'?...Then support the person who get's the 1k mixing job for a home record. That guy is working...that 'home' record may end up with 500,000 downloads.

That gig is BELOW you and your level...Cool. It goes down the line.

Your point is valid...we should all get paid what were worth. Few do. And they are alot of folks who work a hell of a lot harder.

P&B,
Old 9th August 2005
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Option,

8 tunes for $1000 is totally do-able in LA.

Keep checking back here at the site...and keep checking your PM. I suspect a couple of folks will contact you if they see this thread...And they are worth the look into.

Good luck...and by all means let us hear how it comes out.

P&B,
Old 9th August 2005
  #15
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
Option,

8 tunes for $1000 is totally do-able in LA.
I know LA is a different market then NYC metro, but the indie market is the indie market. IMHO, 8 tunes for $1000 seems pretty low unless the mixer can get four tunes off the desk per day and that's a REALLY fast pace. Most cats I know get two, maybe three a day if everything sounds good coming in and there isn't much to organize in each song before you get to actual task of mixing.

That's assuming the client cares about having quality mixes that bring out everything possible in the song. If they don't care, then why bother hiring a cat to mix the project??

Just my two cents.
Old 9th August 2005
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
That is totally selfish....and 'bent'.

Your opinion not mine.

I believe you should get paid what you feel you deserve, not what other people are charging.



[QUOTE=Rodney Gene]
Either be 'good' enough...be at a 'specific level defined by whatever (and have the track record) to charge $10,000 to mix a record...or do it for free? /QUOTE]

Bro don't put words in my mouth.

I never said $10K.


I said 8 songs for $1000 is too low.

The averages out to $125 per song..

What if the mix takes 8-10 hours.


That's $15 an hour.

Interns get paid that much here in the city.


If you feel that's what your worth than more power to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Earth to Thrill...Hello?.... ...hey bro...What about the majority of folks who are 'in between' those levels? 'The MOST of rest of the world' folks?

I didn't see him post:

Wanted unknown or unproven mixing engineer to experiment on my mixes and hopefully give me something that i will like.

He says he wants a good engineer with work and sound he is familiar with.

That means someone with a name and some kind of record.

And these guys don't come cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
This isn't a major release...this isn't even an Indy release...This is SELF produced..HOME recorded album....PLEASE show some support for that market.
Dude i mix records like this all the time.

Budgets are tight and clients now care more about haggling for the best price than the sound.


The name mixers i know right now are doing the same also.

The majority of the work out there right now is independent.

The major projects just take too long to get paid.

You have to balance both somehow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
Where and when does an 'inspiring' "up and coming or bonafide mix person, engineer, or producer get paid?.
To be honest my friend i couldn't care less.

I feel the market is full of wannabees killing the marketplace.

Everyone with a freaking home studio is charging bottomn rates to pay for all the gear they spent reading forumns like this.

They call themselves engineers,mixers,Mastering Engineers and producers when they have no business doing any of the above.

Stick to being an artists,writer or private enthusiasts.

Or just make producing your private hobby.

This way you can justify it to yourself,your wife and your accountant.

Let the work go to the people who have really earned it and deserve it.

This is my opinion only.

And yeah i don't care what you or other people think on this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
When is it 'OK' to accept money for your years of experience? (Despite your track record)
It's not through 'years' of Interning at some successful studio.

Gee...wonder why the industry turned this way?

Doesn't anybody ever consider why musicians chose SELF recording?.
This sounds to me like one of the biggest excuses.


People will pay Jonathan Anton $500 for haircut at his salon.


They will pay up to $1k for a pair of shoes, a handbag, $5K for an Armani suit.


You pay $100-150 an hour to get things repaired.


Here in NYC people pay $11 to go see a movie.


Why should it be different if you are an excellent engineer?


I don't see people cutting their own hair to get the Anton look at home(even though he makes housecalls and charges up to double).


Or making their own Prada shoes and handbags and suits.


I see some of the techs here encouraging the engineers to do their own techwork, but who is actually doing it?

You just want things to work and you will pay whatever it takes.


You think $11 bucks is too high for a movie(I do)?


But you don't see me or others trying to make their own movies for their enjoyment.


This is the only business where things are ass backwards.


Everyone wants to be the Superstar artist,who produces an engineers his own stuff, with the project studio with all the gear to be King Gearslut and at the same time make all the money and pay nothing if you need outside services.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
Why save YOU...why not save ME?
Who cares about YOU when I need to care about ME?
Who cares about 'another' head in my beer story? ...I have my own....

The 'pro audio' industry is alive and BOOMMING...It is only the expensive, high overhead studios who are having trouble...few people can AFFORD them.
The guy said he wanted to go to a big studio with a big board.

He didn't say i want to go to someone's home studio and mix on your computer through some controller.

Engineers over the years build relationships at some of the bigger studios for situations specific as this.

Because its a smaller project you can negotiate a fair rate and not have the client get involved.

This works best for everyone.

If you don't have those contacts its a moot point.


You build contacts by bringing them business not schmoozing with them at some party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

You want to support the 'studios'?...Then support the person who get's the 1k mixing job for a home record. That guy is working...that 'home' record may end up with 500,000 downloads.

P&B,

No i will tell that guy to fuuck off and open his eyes to see things around him.


The lower he charges the lower the next client will try to get away with.

That's the way business works.

If he holds to his standard(a reasonable rate even for a nobody) than everyone around him benefits.

This business will only survive if we stick together or in the end it will just end up as an expensive hobby.
Old 9th August 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

Get em thrill.
Old 9th August 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
If the guy has $2k to spend (I read 2k, not 1k), then that's what he's got to spend.
Although it is unrealistic to get a name mixer on a SSL for that kinda money, I think 2K for 8 songs is a good indy budget just for mixing. If he shops around I think he can get a professional to do a solid job...

But I wouldn't go shopping in LA or NC with that budget.

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 9th August 2005
  #19
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
I feel the market is full of wannabees killing the marketplace.

Everyone with a freaking home studio is charging bottomn rates to pay for all the gear they spent reading forumns like this.

They call themselves engineers,mixers,Mastering Engineers and producers when they have no business doing any of the above.

Stick to being an artists,writer or private enthusiasts.

Or just make producing your private hobby.
At the risk of yet another person here calling me "Dick" ... I'll just say this:

AMEN BRUTHAH!
Old 9th August 2005
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Helsing's Avatar
 

Interested. Shoot me an email at [email protected]

I live in San Diego so LA is no problem. There are a few good studio options in your budget range if you stay in Pro Tools.

Jon
Old 9th August 2005
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Thrill...I didn't have to put words in your mouth...I understand your point and your message is very clear...

I appreciate your wanting the 'business' to stay the same...but it isn't the same, it will never be the same again... and if you choose to cling old beliefs then you may end up dissapointed.

I appreciate your 'perspective' on 'not liking' the 'home studio' stealing your 'work' either...but I don't believe that is the case in the least.

This job was far too low for your level and rates...in which case the person at hand can not afford you...so he has to move along to the next appropriate person.

Wannabees? OF course...But the some of these 'wannabees' you are talking about (many of them here on the board) are mixing real records...for real artists who write real songs.

Per hour?

My current contract producing a great INDY artist is for $20,000...I might make $1.50 an hour....maybe... I work my ass off.

I am BARELY surviving...But that is my musical REALITY...


Stick together? Absolutley...and that includes this cat asking for a mix engineer.
There will be somebody here who will do an excellent job (appropriate job) for the budget at hand.

You MAY VERY WELL BE worth alot more cash...But someone else isn't and they deserve the opportunity to grow and earn..period.

There is no golden rainbow one walks through before they can 'charge for work'.
That is silly.
What seperates a 'wannabee' from a non-wannabee? I don't know. But if somone is mixing a record..and the client is happy...he is a working engineer.


My point...we are all trying to survive...even the home studio...
His clients aren't yours..he isn;t stealing your thunder...not in the least.

Nothing but respect brother Thrill...

P&B,
Old 9th August 2005
  #22
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
There is no golden rainbow one walks through before they can 'charge for work'.
You can charge for the golden shower though, but that usually involves having to work with Chuck Berry.
Old 10th August 2005
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
Thrill...I didn't have to put words in your mouth...I understand your point and your message is very clear...

I appreciate your wanting the 'business' to stay the same...but it isn't the same, it will never be the same again... and if you choose to cling old beliefs then you may end up dissapointed.
I never said i want things to stay the same.

Actually things suck right now as it is.

These aren't the 80's where everyone made absorbent tons of money.

Right now its about fighting for survival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

I appreciate your 'perspective' on 'not liking' the 'home studio' stealing your 'work' either...but I don't believe that is the case in the least.
The home studio will never steal my work.

Its people charging so low that's making us lifers having to bail out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

This job was far too low for your level and rates...in which case the person at hand can not afford you...so he has to move along to the next appropriate person.
I never said i wanted the project.

Its not my choice of project to want to work on.

My issue was about undercharging and undercutting others who are capable and would want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Wannabees? OF course...But the some of these 'wannabees' you are talking about (many of them here on the board) are mixing real records...for real artists who write real songs.

That's great and more power to them.

I am sure these guys will be the future when us "dinosaurs"die out. heh

Again the guy said he wanted someone with a name and sound he'd heard of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Per hour?

My current contract producing a great INDY artist is for $20,000...I might make $1.50 an hour....maybe... I work my ass off.

I am BARELY surviving...But that is my musical REALITY...
And i am sad to hear this.

You sound like you are really passionate and take seriously what you do.

But undercharging yourself will not help.

It will hurt you in the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
Stick together? Absolutley...and that includes this cat asking for a mix engineer.
There will be somebody here who will do an excellent job (appropriate job) for the budget at hand.

My personal belief is if someone can pay almost nothing i'd rather they ask me to mix it for free.

That way if i say no there are no feelings hurt.

If i decide to do it on spec at least they will know its a favor and they won't be tempted to obsess over every little minutae(which self produced artists tend to do).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Nothing but respect brother Thrill...

P&B,
Same here. thumbsup
Old 10th August 2005
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

I'd love to mix this for you, as Radiohead & Zeppelin are 2 of my favorite bands. That budget is a bit too low but maybe we can work something out. FWIW I've been recording & mixing for over 25 years, If I have anything like a specialty it would be psychodelic, atmospheric rock. I currently base most of my work out of Lingo which is a PT HD3/Control 24 based room.
Send me a PM if you're interested, I can play you some of my work, & I'd like to hear what ya got going.
Old 10th August 2005
  #25
mml
Gear Addict
 
mml's Avatar
 

Sent you a PM yesterday. Email me through my website if interested. I'm not "well known", but I'm in your budget and professional. If you want "well known" in LA, you probably don't have the budget. You never know though, if someone's slow and likes the music...
Old 10th August 2005
  #26
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 

ya... I go with finding someone to do it for free....You need to find a believer who will spend way more time to mix it right then your budget can afford... otherwise you would be better off spending a year and mix it at home ...and you don't need PT , DP is plenty powerful for a good mix with a few outboard toys.....2000 could rent you a nice mix rack for a couple of weeks...are you likely to find a good engineer and studio that will take 2 weeks to mix it...nope,,,if the Band is any good someone will spec it..... and heres the next thing anybody good enough to make a difference won't want you to be at the mix sessions... so why limit yourself to LA you can send files anywhere...at any rate good luck

cheers
SP
Old 10th August 2005
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A View to a Thrill
Actually things suck right now as it is.

These aren't the 80's where everyone made absorbent tons of money.

Right now its about fighting for survival
I was a full time musician in the 80's...I have no idea what the studio scene' was like or how it 'used to be'...Except from a musicians standpoint which meant paying $50 an hour to record my first 2 records in 87' and 89'. They still sound really good.

Survival? I do understand that...My wife and I think about it 3400 times a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawberry Thrills
The home studio will never steal my work.
Its people charging so low that's making us lifers having to bail out.
I understand...I just don't see this scenario as being relevant. I think 'name' or 'known' means different things to different people...depending on your level and interest in this field....That is how I read it anyway.

Budget... That is really the only dictating factor here IMO. If the budget is $1000 to mix...then the budget is $1000 to mix. What do ya' do? If I was the producer in charge of getting the album mixed, I would have to find a solution....which probably means mixing myself . Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoot to Thrill
My issue was about undercharging and undercutting others who are capable and would want to.
If someone accepts a job...I can't see how it is undercharging?

Someone steps up and says.."Hey I got $1000 to mix my record".."Anybody Interested"?
Anybody willing to do it...is willing to do it. Thier reasons are thier reasons...It is true that most people don't maintain a high level of personal respect and Integrity when they feel they can make a buck...but some people feel like $1000 is a great (and fair) exchange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrills down my spine
And i am sad to hear this.
You sound like you are really passionate and take seriously what you do.
But undercharging yourself will not help.
It will hurt you in the end.
I don't consider it sad...I feel alive and breathing!!

Am I worth more?..Holy hell yes!! As a producer (Not an engineer)...I could NEVER get what I am worth from an Indy artist!!

Token pay? Yes...Honestly...how can you pay for someones blood sweat, tears and creativity?I am sweating and grinding in 12-14 hour days on a great rock record....Which means I am not just 'working' on it I am a 'part' of it.

I get paid to work on music...albeit not much.

I am working with a positive artist and great human being who I believe in. I have an opportunity to be a coach, an advisor, a spiirtual role model and a musical influence. I am catalyst for his goals...he is a catalyst for mine.

I have 3 choices...
1. Not do a record for $20,000 because that is below what I am worth (trust me my wife laughs and cries over my 'wage')

2. Do a record with 'minimal' effort and time (which is what my musical business advisors recommend!) Oh' $20,000 Budget" 6-8 weeks! (No kidding)

The contract is 6 months.

3. Develop each song to it's fullest for the artist...one by one like the old days.
Budget for Mastering...Budget for Duplication.

Low pay...High credits...Plus...Mechanical Royalties...Plus and most important...put out a QUALITY record that we believe in.

How could I ever consider that sad?
I can always make money somewhere and I suspect this album will sell a ****load of downloads as I have a motivated artist with a motivated team behind him...maybe I make more then? Who knows...it isn't MY driving factor.

I want to DO this... not think about or talk about doing it.

As far as I am concerned I am not 'hurting' the industry..I am 'helping' the industry. I am working for the Artist...not the label. I care about the music, not the cash. The music is NOT a means to an end.

I am an artist...I produce as an artist, I maintain Integrity and resoect with myself as human being. Am I working for cheap? Yes, but not for the money...I am working because I want to.

Peace AND Respect.
Old 10th August 2005
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Zarathustra's Avatar
 

Engineers.... Hungry buzzards on roadkill.


Z
Old 10th August 2005
  #29
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
'Ya know, Thrill is right-on the mark with regards to rates. When you undercut your rates and don't charge what your skills are worth, you’re hurting not only yourself but everyone else INCLUDING your clients and future clients.

Part of being successful and being able TO MAKE A LIVING at this is realizing what level of the ladder you’re on.

This is SERVICE INDUSTRY. A real audio engineer has a skill set...the understanding and knowledge of the art and science that goes into making a recording. Don't forget that maybe 50 years ago...AE's had to wear lab coats!!!

What other service industry's have rates as low as $15 an hour? Would you expect to find a quality mechanic to work on your car for $15 per hour?

Would you even take your car to a $15 mechanic?!?!

That's what a real engineer does...we fix and build records and charge accordingly for it. And unlike a mechanic, most of us can be negotiable on rates but we SHOULD have our standards and minimums in place, both for rates AND from the quality of work perspective. If you don't have those, then your business card should read "audio w.h.o.r.e" and not "audio engineer".

How many people have actually asked a client to NOT give them credit, stopped work on a project or even just passed on it because it wasn't going to meet your standards?
Old 10th August 2005
  #30
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
As far as I am concerned I am not 'hurting' the industry..I am 'helping' the industry. I am working for the Artist...not the label. I care about the music, not the cash. The music is NOT a means to an end.

I am an artist...I produce as an artist, I maintain Integrity and resoect with myself as human being. Am I working for cheap? Yes, but not for the money...I am working because I want to.

Peace AND Respect.
Man, I've got a lot of respect for you...and your right, for some people it's NOT about making money. You can charge what your worth AND still maintain your integrity and self-respect if you wanted to. If you do a great job and have a half-way decent business sense then the money will come.

But, if you undercut yourself to the point where you’re barely surviving AND your CONCIOUS of that fact, you have zero right to bitch about it.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump