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Looking For L.A. Area Mixing Engineer for Digital Performer project
Old 12th August 2005
  #91
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
if it's hardly rocket science and it's so simple, then why are people always asking how do do things that to me are so basic?
its rocket surgery and sure... tehy are learning. i help those people out in every way i can.... and ya know what? it makes me think back to when i learned it, maybe think about it differently... and maybe triggers something i had forgotten over time and things becoming like breathing rather than doing.

honestly, im a perfectionist.... i am not proud of a damn thing i have done. with ANYTHING, well i take that back.... im proud of my son that i helped make and raise. that kills music and puts stupid conversations like these into idiocy. but musically, artistically in the many fields i work in... i can always find faults with the work i do which keeps me moving foward. when i hit something i am proud of, i will let you know because that will be my retirement project. BUT, whiel i take compliments as poison to my ears, i get them from others... here is one from the godfather of this board:

"I would inject this if I could. GLORIUS. When life support machines are switched off, this is what floats out the window seconds after. SOUL. It's a classic Alpha! Hats off and props to ya. It's hard to capture it and you did it here IMHO." -Julian Standen
Old 12th August 2005
  #92
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
well that i agree with... but i would call "low end" people simply inexperienced, or untrained.... instead of low end.... entry level? **** i dunno.
Yeah, I dunno...call it what you want. I have plenty of low-end gear in my room that I like and use all the time. But yeah...IMHO this isn't the forum for people to come in and ask a basic question.

Quote:
BUT what IF some guy with name and credits simply wanted to take this guys project simply as a challenge? what if right now they are so far in teh black they COULD do it w/o justification.... just hypothetical.
That would be AMAZING!!! But lets face it, the chances of that happening are slim to none. Not impossible, but not probable either. From where I sit, all I want is to hear better records and not see people get funked over in the process. I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who's looking for someone to mix his record. I asked who the other cats are, and there were a couple of names he mentioned where I can honestly say that although I'd rather mix it and I think I'll do the best job, I really don't mind losing the gig to the other guys because I know that the mixes and the record won't suck. It's about putting my personal ego aside for the greater good. But at the same time, I'm NOT going to drop my pants to get a gig and because that doesn't help ANYONE.

Quote:
the conundrum i see however [especially in TODAYS enviroment] is having name and credit certainly doesnt justify any talent other than marketing and bull**** for the most part... and propogating crappy music most should be shot, and NONE are worth the inflated prices they charge. maybe that is because the guys i respect through time arent the ones who marketed themselves taking advantage of the willingness to put bands heavily into debt.... i have heard too many great albums done by meager means to argue against that way being the only way towards success. of course, there are many more reasons...
Are you honestly telling me that you'd turn down $25-40K for two weeks of work to mix a record? Keep in mind that the $40K is being spread out...the assistent gets a cut, the mix room gets a cut, the mix AE gets the biggest cut. And keep in mind that we're talking about records with a budget of $100 to $500K. IMHO, that's WAY too much money to make a record, but it's NOTHING in comparison to what a label will FORCE a band to spend on a single video.

And yeah...I've had friends that mixed killer records on a Smackie or whatever...but this conversation isn't really about that aspect, the tools. It's about pro's charging what they're worth. This IS a service industry.

Quote:
but "high end" aside from being a state of mind has little to do with what they charge people. nor does simply owning "high end" [which i see more as no compromise] gear mean anything really. or tchad blake would be out of a career of driving costs of low end gear through the roof.
But Tchad Blake IS high end LOL

Man, like I said...it's about charging what your skills are worth in a market. Recording is a service industry, just like auto mechanics. Would you take your car to a $20 mechanic and expect it to be right?
Old 12th August 2005
  #93
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
Alpha, you are on crack. First off, if there is a 'gatekeeper mentality' with audio professionals.
not audio professionals... the industry.

MW also charges for that knowledge now too and good for him for coming up with that idea... i think he needs to put out video of it for others as well [and make some dough for his trouble of putting it together]. MW is a great guy, a VERY sharing, honest and open person. i had a wonderful time doing a surround mix at his place. he is definately NOT one of the guys i have issues with. of course he certainly doesnt go around anon either.

i have worked with all kinds of engineers over the years... and lots of projects [which i prefer] to produce/engineer myself with the band. i like that relationship the most while recording.

and no, im not on crack... that **** is bad for ya.
Old 12th August 2005
  #94
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Nice cop out. Maybe you aren't proud of anything because it sucks? Man, even some people who suck have balls enough to put their stuff in forums to ask for feedback. I want to know whether or not to take you seriously, and the only way I can do that is to hear your work. If you rule, I will give you props. If you suck, however I will never take anything you say seriously.

Here, I'll do it. Here's some random stuff that I did soup to nuts.

mp3s
Old 12th August 2005
  #95
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Are you honestly telling me that you'd turn down $25-40K for two weeks of work to mix a record? Keep in mind that the $40K is being spread out...the assistent gets a cut, the mix room gets a cut, the mix AE gets the biggest cut. And keep in mind that we're talking about records with a budget of $100 to $500K. IMHO, that's WAY too much money to make a record, but it's NOTHING in comparison to what a label will FORCE a band to spend on a single video.

Man, like I said...it's about charging what your skills are worth in a market. Recording is a service industry, just like auto mechanics. Would you take your car to a $20 mechanic and expect it to be right?
i think we are pretty much on the same page for alot of things...

the first thing i quoted, i would have ethical issues with. i think that is WAY TOO MUCH for the band to recoup on a project for mixing. especially if you consider the units sold involved and the average number for major label bands [i think i recall was @ 1k units, IOW.... only a FEW recover the fees and make money, i think albini's article kinda summed up that area].

one reason, is i think technology is changing the overhead now of mix rooms... once the old guys let go of their religious notions of how mixing MUST be done. assistants really arent needed. mixers can afford their own mix rooms now.... so basically that CAN keep it all [and dont forget points, which is an idea some frown upon in the DIY world, yet i dont and see it as a partnership for the greater good, and payoff]. and second reason, labels are [now known] dropping HUGE sums on payola which is the artist has to recoup before they make a dime. i think a LOT of things need to change in this industry.

there actually is a $20 mechanic in town here who does a great job that i do use he isnt about living large or making money... just enough to survive. have to respect that in a way. sure beats getting taken to the cleaners by the dealers that cost 100x's as much and arent alwys doing it right either [in fact, i have had more problems with their work than the other guys]... jsut something to chew on.
Old 12th August 2005
  #96
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
Nice cop out. Maybe you aren't proud of anything because it sucks?
nah, i have posted songs before... mostly roughs to see if people were digging it at that state or if i should kill it and start over.

okay, i will play... those black sabbath covers crack me up [done well]...

some of these could [probably] be roughs [but far enough along to hear where they are going.... all i have on my server currently... and my studio is packed up right now heading to another location to record an album] we have completely different styles, you mix more mellow than i do... and im sure you will flame away... but its not like i care [p.s. song jules commented on isnt up in this list, not on my server, i do love that song too... it is like the immaculate hit]....

[mixed/mastered] -rock
[tracked/mixed/mastered/let the band mess with mixing] -funk roots rock
[totally tracked live, no od's, 20min mix, 'mastered'] -alt.country
[tracked, mixed, mastered] -roots rock
[mixed, mastered]- rock tune
[tracked, mixed, mastered 4 songs in 4 hours... drummer never heard the song until i hit record] -singer/songwriter
[song that happened after a frustrated botched take but i kept rolling and caught this... i like doing that. something never played before or since... some rough spots in the jam but i dig it, all live, no od's] -psychedelic rock

not my "best" but what i got up right now... course i dont know what IS best anyway, subjective **** ya know.
Old 12th August 2005
  #97
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
i think we are pretty much on the same page for alot of things...

the first thing i quoted, i would have ethical issues with. i think that is WAY TOO MUCH for the band to recoup on a project for mixing. especially if you consider the units sold involved and the average number for major label bands [i think i recall was @ 1k units, IOW.... only a FEW recover the fees and make money, i think albini's article kinda summed up that area].
It just goes to show that we're on really different levels. High end is about the cats doing big indie to major label stuff, the bands that sell a bunch of records and do festivals, have radio airplay and videos on TV. Some of those records cost a few hundered grand to make and some of 'em were done front to back for $8K and they get played next to each other. The band that presses 1000 discs with Europa or Discmakers isn't high end. That doesn't mean that I treat them differently though. I treat EVERY record like it's the last one I'll ever make because once it leaves my hands and hits the market, you'll never know what can happen.

Quote:
there actually is a $20 mechanic in town here who does a great job that i do use he isnt about living large or making money... just enough to survive. have to respect that in a way. sure beats getting taken to the cleaners by the dealers that cost 100x's as much and arent alwys doing it right either [in fact, i have had more problems with their work than the other guys]... jsut something to chew on.
I've been using the same mechanic for about 15 years and four cars. I went to high school with one of his kids and I've NEVER asked him for an estimate or what the hourly rate is. I tell him what the problem is and ask when I can pick it up. It's always been fair, sometimes I get charged and sometimes I don't...but it's ALWAYS fair and it's ALWAYS right.

Just something else to chew on.
Old 12th August 2005
  #98
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
It just goes to show that we're on really different levels. High end is about the cats doing big indie to major label stuff, the bands that sell a bunch of records and do festivals, have radio airplay and videos on TV. Some of those records cost a few hundered grand to make and some of 'em were done front to back for $8K and they get played next to each other. The band that presses 1000 discs with Europa or Discmakers isn't high end....
i dont see it that way... MOST major label bands fail miserably... and few sell many records at all. out of the THOUSANDS of records released each year, only a few handful break platinum. mtv doesnt even play videos anymore [except rap on mtv2]....

commercialism is NOT high end.... its marketing. its behringer. its mcdonalds. its walmart.

most bands i buy and listen to dont get much [if any airplay] and certianly no videos on mtv.

so what bands are you working with who are on that level?
Old 12th August 2005
  #99
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
OK. It doesn't suck. You're getting pretty good sounds, but if you disagree with my point in my 'about us' about actual gear and techniques vs. the emulations, and you think even the first of those mixes, which is the best, is on par with stuff coming out of hi end studios using real engineers, I don't know what to tell you. It sounds to me like this was recorded by somebody with a decent idea what they are doing, but there's a serious prosumer vibe to my ears. You obviously know how to mic things, etc. which 90% of the people who have a PT rig don't know how to do.

I'm not going to flame the mixes. They are indy for sure, but I respect the effort. However, I hear the difference that your post (to which I initially objected) insinuates does not exist. Maybe you need to reread the Oz comment you made. But the way I read it, you're saying that anybody with a DAW can now do what I do, and I couldn't disagree more forcefully. You said that this is not a scientific skill and that now that the shroud of secrecy that we have maintained to make people think they can't do this without us has fallen away because DAWs have leveled the playing field. Honestly, in and when somebody proves me wrong, and anybody in the world can make a record that sounds as good as the ones I respect, I'll be the first to cop to it. But I don't see it now, nor in the immediate future. And if you don't understand that, then you are never going to move to the next level, because you ain't hearing what the rest of us are hearing.
Old 12th August 2005
  #100
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

no, i dont prefer what you are hearing, so i will never go that route.... im not after your influences... i can put up my mixes and have MORE ENJOYMENT than major label mixes because most of the commercial stuff sounds boring, thin and weak.... i have my mixes in rotation on my player with lots of others and they compete hard and fast against them. and on radio they hold their own quite nicely. i prefer my sounds to others [hell i mixed them, so they are suited to my tastes].... however pretty much one guy who absolutely makes me want to crawl into a corner and quit is dave fridmann. there are a couple others as well, but you probably have never heard of them.

i learn somethign new almost every single day, at LEAST one thing... sometimes many more... im always improving my sound but i can garauntee you that my final results wont ever travel in your direction... dont see that as a superior thing, see it as personal differences, and realize we are both unique at what we do and that is what is wonderful about music... and great for bands. some bands might hate my style and love yours, others might hate yours and love mine. i get people coming up to be saying they are blown away by the way i make things sound [i never think so... again, that poison compliment thing]

you also have to remember in that statement. we have VERY different influences. i listen to mostly independant music. i listen to underground rock, etc. it is a different aesthetic. i enjoy my style mixes more than yours personally. its not a wack at you... but i think mine sound harder, cleaner, and more open than yours do, which sound soft [not loudness] and a bit closed in but not edgy, which i prefer edgy.... though i do like that bass sound on that sabbath cover band, but i could pretty much bet that is the player right?

you call that indy, which i guess i will take as a compliment because at least you didnt say they sound like CLA [which i think are horrendous mixes] or JJP [same deal... and shame on him with all that gear he has... it must be causing some horrible reflections]


i also think you misunderstood my post that you objected at. i followed with one more clear later:
i have already been through this change in that business, and i believe i have mentioned it a few dozen times before... i saw what happened [and is still occuring]... and its exactly the same thing happening here. there were people like me who saw the power in desktop publishing and took advantage of it.... lots of others did to, but some got in that lacked design skills. i steal jobs from those people all the time... instead of getting irritated at them i just went in and took the clients who would pay more [and didnt bother with the ones who couldnt, cause that is just a headache you dont want regardless], and people pay my rates [which are MUCH higher than the one who hosed it in the first place].... but its simply a matter of taste. SOME clients cant tell they are getting bad design in the first place. some can once they see good design. some simply cant afford good design. some clients have no taste at all and simply like bad design all together and wouldnt know something good if it hit em in the head.

im saying, it puts the power in front of them... if they can handle it or not is up to them. if they want to learn or not. before it was a closed system... now anybody can get a DAW, isnt goign to give them talent [although garageband surely tries, yet just makes musak]... so we do agree on that front. and i have seen many people come and go that dont realize what it actually DOES take to mix a song, it isnt listening to it once and its done... its over and over and over and over and over and over for 4 hours straight sometimes.... sometimes more. that kills a LOT of people to boredom quick.

i think we might be in agreement yet from different places. YES, having a DAW wont automatically make you know what you are doing, one can learn... some have natural instinct and actually CAN do it... ****, you think everyone haveing a DAW is bad, there is a studio here in town claiming to be an analog studio [1"/16track] with no MRL tape! i go in there and wonder how they even get signal to it [honestly]... but im still willing to help anyone out if i can.

and some of my ideas and concepts dont translate well over the internet either... in person it is much easier to get ideas across more clearly so its understood.
Old 12th August 2005
  #101
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
you think even the first of those mixes, which is the best, is on par with stuff coming out of hi end studios using real engineers, I don't know what to tell you.
so you are calling me a "fake" engineer?!? i think they are not only on par yet from a different vantage point... in fact i think they surpass a LOT of major label stuff.... cant say i have heard great things in more than 10 years now.... so you REALLY DONT KNOW what to tell me. because you dont come from where i come from. just to give you a hint, i do things RAW, i dont SR, i dont AT, i dont BD... i like things bloody and live. i like mistakes. i like real rock and roll. mine sound REAL to me... i would suggest you put some of those in your playlist and let them shuffle about and they will stick out above the perfect mediocrity that is taking down the music business as we know it.... and most of those are roughs... once i get back on line with my studio setup, ill gather some **** for you that is finished that i like. whole albums... singles aint my bag baby.
Old 12th August 2005
  #102
Here for the gear
 

iI have some good songs!
Old 12th August 2005
  #103
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Option
iI have some good songs!
lets hear em!
Old 12th August 2005
  #104
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

pfffff .... closed. WAY off topic by now and the namecalling is uhm ....

If anyone has a problem with some of the more 'personal' stuff, PM me and I'll take it out.

Rather then editing this one I'm closing it.
Old 12th August 2005
  #105
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
Rather then editing this one I'm closing it.


Really?





Sorry...I had to. heh



BTW, AJ, I'm not getting in the middle of all this hogwash, but jj is right about what's coming out of major studios these days. What your doing is good stuff, and you don't suck, but the stuff coming out of the big studios is quite a bit "different" than what your doing.
Old 12th August 2005
  #106
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5

Sorry...I had to. heh

Argh ... forgot to close it
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