it seems alot of vocals in the genre, especially hardcore and all of its subgenres, seem to have a poorly done vocal screaming, seeing as this is a prodominent form of music coming into me im asking for advice on this...what mics/pre's would you sudjest to give a scream that full sound that it deserves. sorry about the grammer, im tired,

A SM57 does the trick here.

You certainly don't want to use anything too detailed.

A scream is a scream and mostly the artist wants the impact. Sometimes they want you to understand what they're singing. At that point I ask them to at least scream 'in tune'.

heh

haha scream intune, most of the bands dont really of lyrics per say....im using a 57 actually, but im trying to achieve somethign alittle more, think bleeding throughs' new album.

I had good luck with a MD441 on screamers. Take a good listen how the scream sounds in the room, some can really scream hard, but very thin...

Good luck,
Dirk

I dig the SM7b on screamers.

-CJ

In order of what I'd try after the 57:

SM7
RE20
MD441
MD421
ATM25

Basically, any large dynamic.

later,
m

SM7B.

end of story!!

Check out the Soundelux 195. Pretty hearty mic for that style.
-justin

That's why I think there are better mics than the SM-7 for screamers (but not for the price), it seems a little nasally on a lot of screamers, not enough ballz for my tastes. It's not naturally compressed sounding enough for me either on voxs, meaning I have to use more compression than I usually do on a condenser. Absolutely love it on amps though for that very reason, it's dynamically very free (so it's not adding further to the amps already squashed sound, and the proximity up close seems natural so I can stick in the grill without all the accentuated resonance in the lows). Just my $.02.

M88 works well, as do many of the mics mentioned above.

with screamers you're not going to get a lot of takes out of them, because they physically can't maintain that sound for very long. so you're not going to get a lot of engineering indulgences. just make them comfortable. i find that a sm58 is what they are used to, so that's where they should start. if they are willing and have more studio experience, then maybe a LDC.
preamp should be pretty bright and crunchy. i use either a hardy, daking, altec or this thing my friend made called the "no toasters nice pair"
for compression, you probably want to do it in two stages. first something VCA or Jfet set really fast with a low ratio. then something opto set medium with a higher ratio.
do a practice take of the first song and tweak your levels. then get the headphones set. then go. and don't have him sing for more than an hour if you want him to sing tomorrow.
i usually start doing vox as soon as drums are done and before any guitar overdubs start. then i'll just pick at it whenever the singer feels up to it.
good luck!

I used a 57 and an ADL compressor on my singer and I was shocked at how well it worked together. My singer needs a hand held mic and room to go off in to get the performance. He knows how he needs to stand to get the most power out of his scream, so thats the only mic that worked that we have. That m*f*cka had mad stamina too. Screaming vox for 6 hours and could still talk, ehhehehehehe.

thanks for all the advice guys!! its very appreciated
cheers

Sounds like Jeremy Enigk (Sunny Day Real Estate and The Fire Theft).

The only man I've ever heard who can scream in tune and still sound like he's saying words... an absolutely beautiful voice, frickin stunning live - has a ridiculous range.

a good old SM58 with a foam ball into a Neve prism with the compressor hitting about -10 on the peaks, set to fast. that combo has been getting me great Screamer sounds for 10 years. a DBX160X is also a favorite here.

I have a few foam balls that I swap between songs to avoid screaming into a ball of spit, as Im sure thats not very nice.

Shure SM 58beta did the job

preamp: mackie vlz pro

Comp: Rane CLX-52

Hehhee, it's not him. My singer can't sing at all, but he can scream like crazy and is fast as hell, so he makes up for it there.

I noticed that most of them cant really even scream, they have to have a handheld mic and have thier mouths practically wrapped around it because they use all the proximity effect to give it balls. They also "cup" the mic with thier hands. Throw them on a condensor from a foot away and see what happens, its pathetic.
I did give a screamer a 421 for handheld one time and after about 10 minutes of trying to figure out why it sucked so bad, I walk in there and hes singing into it sideways. The look of the mic threw him off.

I hear ya. Thats the one thing I never liked about Howard from BHBS and KSE. He cheats a bit. It's probably smart for longevities sake, but otherwire he's a great frontman.

Try and talk to Jamie Jasta after shows from before Perserverance came out and he can barely talk. He's gotten alot better at it nowadays.

Too many scream from the throat and not the gut.

I use a 421 with a foam thingy on a stand... let the guy grip it, and supplement that with a 414 about a foot away.

Now there is even a "How to Scream" DVD... saw it at the Sounds of the Underground Tour.

Check out the demo of my band. We are recording a full-length now.
http://myspace.com/deadthoughtsmemory

Couldn't disagree more...

Melissa Cross is a "scream-o" vocal coach. No ****....She coaches Randy from Lamb Of God and Lots of others.

She has a dvd out that teachs you how to scream properly. I know it sounds stupid, but my singer got it and he's really improved. I recommend it for anyone trying to do that kind of stuff.

http://www.melissacross.com/

shure sm-7b > great river mp-2nv is my first 'at bat'.
joshua

WERD

I love the GR on heavy vox. I miss mine :(

This is a fact.

I think she does a good job with the kids.

Wayyy more than half the stuff that comes outta here in any given year has some kinda screaming on it.

In my experience, 90% of the battle is providing the kids with a workable system in tracking. That is, something that will CAPTURE the performance in a fashion that you can manipulate easily downstream in mix, AND build his confidence as the sessions progress. Systems that provide the singer with a feeling of immense and seemingly effortless POWER are often the most high yield. Even, or maybe I should say....ESPECIALLY, if the screamer does not REALLY have a very powerful voice/much endurance.

Traditional concepts of recording are often pretty much abandoned. Handheld mics(both dynamic and SDC), multiple compressors, crazy gainstaging, expansion type noise reduction schemes and even guitar amps are often the order of the day.

It's some of the most difficult, fun, and creative engineering work you can do in tracking these types of records, IMHO.

Best regards to all.

SM.

I have been doing a decent amont of this recently.
My last 2 favs were...

1. A Peluso 251 in a Fearn into the Fatso to tame the sibilance( I know, I couldn't believe it either!) He preferred to not have to hold the mic so I figured what the hell....worked fantastic!

2. A 57 and 421 duct tapped together and hand-held with the singer running around the live room like he was at a show. Smashed the **** out of the 57 in a Fearn thru a 1176 and left the 421 naturally compressed through a Neve. Probably my fav harcore sound I have heard.

Even though these guys are already raunchy, I still slam the comps hard, really putting it in your face. To me it rawks.

The most improtant factor for these guys is the feel....period. If they are happy, they will kill it.

I just had a band in..Bloodsimple singer did his stuff with SM7 and LTD-1.
They were adding some stuff to what they already did in NY.
I was suprised at how much compression was used. The gtr player engineered it. The producer asked for some different verses..When they came in they wanted to use my dbx160 and distressor to get the same sound they had. It sounded good in the track...Just way more comp then I normally use. When FedEx dropped off the session and I loaded it in...I was thinking every vocal seems small and squeezed to death...But it did cut well in the track when very thing was on.

We did eq a bit on the LTD to match what was already there.

A big problem with the screamers is they often get really weirded out hearing them selves scream in cans. Most of these bands have a really loud stage volume and the screamer/singer has never really heard themselves. I usually end up blasting things through wedges for them.

As for mics. pretty much everyone else's suggestions. Audix om-2 isn't bad either. Got a great take once out of a cheap toy karaoke mic as it overloaded nicely (the beastie boys often used vocal distortion effect on check your head/ill communiction was a toy karaoke mic).

Just helped some freinds do some tracking and we used an AT ae2500 mic to good effect (it's marketed as a kick mic but it has two elements-condenser and dynamic guarenteed to be inphase)

A stedman n90 once worked really well on someone who insisted on screaming into a 'real' mic and not some crappy handheld dynamic as it looks more like your typical LDC.

Nice, I toured with those guys for a bit.

I don't mind a heavy singer with handheld mic, but when they start cupping it, I lose my mine

It depends on what the vocalist can scream into. I know a lot of metal/grind guys who have to use a handheld mic and they have to cup it to get certain sounds, i.e. the super low gutterals. A 58 works great for those guys because it's a microphone that they know how it sounds and how to get what they need out of it. Some screamers can get away with yelling into an LDC. C414s can sound really good if they know what they are doing.