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Genelec 1031 > Adam S3A help
Old 6th August 2005
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
1031's work best with the right sub.

With the right subwoofer it becomes a whole other speaker in its own right.

The mids becaome easier to hear.
I had mine set up with the Genelec 1094 sub,

Folks with 'golden ears' said they could hear the crossover point and it bugged them..
Old 6th August 2005
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
I had mine set up with the Genelec 1094 sub,

Folks with 'golden ears' said they could hear the crossover point and it bugged them..
I think this is the reason I never considered a sub. Even in larger studios when listening back to a track through the mains with sub, I could hear a seperation in the music. Always was bit disconcerting ( and I don't have golden ears ). That being said, I have been in some studios using subs where things sounded great. I thought my room was a bit on the small side for subs.
Old 6th August 2005
  #33
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bukarin's Avatar
 

Just had my first experience with the Adam S3a's after using 1031s and NS10s for quite some time, totally blown away and quite scared too! All the rooms in our studios have 1031s and NS10s, at a clients request we just bought some S3a's for our main mix room. Quite a few house engineers really don't like them compared to the 1031s (I think maybe the detail and completely different bottom end is a massive departure from the Genelecs and freaks people out) but I loved them as soon as got in the sweet spot. After assisting on a mix session until 3am I fired up my iPod and just listened to loads of stuff, the detail is incredible compared to the Genelecs. Did my first mix my using the Adams on monday, first impressions were very favourable, I especially found setting compressors and Q settings far more precise.

IMO moving from 1031s to S3A's is a big jump but well worth it, unfortunately for me the studio isn't planning on upgrading the other rooms. I would love to do a tracking session using the S3A's I'm sure they'd be amazing for mic position, checking phase etc.

Old 6th August 2005
  #34
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
As you said, to each their own. I LOVE my S2A's, absolutely love them!! I do wish that I had that last bottom octave which I might make up with a sub at some point but to say that S2A's are severely lacking in anything is just not my experience at all. Not even remotely and I have used plenty of speakers. Even without the sub I can mix on these like no other speaker I have ever used... period. They suprised the hell out of me the first time I turned them on.
It's not just that the S3a's have a more extended bottom, I found them better in all aspects, with no small margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Also there are others in some pretty hefty studios that have actually picked the S2A's over the S3As so I think I am not the only one who is digging them.
I haven't heard anyone actually preferring the S2a's over the S3a's except for budget reasons. But I'm sure there's somebody to be find...
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I just don't understand why you are so against the S2A's??
I'm not against them at all, they just didn't do it for me. JJ mentioned he was going to audition the S2a's. Well, look at his mic locker, the guy could afford the S3a's and I'm giving him my first hand experience. If you have read some of my posts, you'll see that I only comment on things I have tried myself and I share that info when I think it could be helpful. I guess that's what these forums are for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new

Again to each their own.
Sure, if you like your S2a's, I'm sure you really like them and they work for you, great!

Not to be an ass, just out of curiosity, did you try the S3a's in your room?

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 6th August 2005
  #35
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Bryce's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB
I haven't heard anyone actually preferring the S2a's over the S3a's except for budget reasons.
I have...

I took a set of S2As and S3As over to Mad Hatter Studios for Bernie Kirsh to play with. He had them for a while and put both sets through their paces, and he ended up buying the S2As.

I also played the S2As and S3As for Timothy B. Schmitt - he also ended up with the S2As. Bob Clearmountain also said he liked the S2As better then the S3As when I demoed them both for him.

Heck, there are people who prefer the P series to the S series. They're not wrong - it's just what their ear prefers.

dB
ADAM Audio USA
Old 6th August 2005
  #36
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce
I have...

I took a set of S2As and S3As over to Mad Hatter Studios for Bernie Kirsh to play with. He had them for a while and put both sets through their paces, and he ended up buying the S2As.

I also played the S2As and S3As for Timothy B. Schmitt - he also ended up with the S2As. Bob Clearmountain also said he liked the S2As better then the S3As when I demoed them both for him.

Heck, there are people who prefer the P series to the S series. They're not wrong - it's just what their ear prefers.

dB
ADAM Audio USA
Cool, now how many times did it go the other way?

To be clear, I'm not dissing the S2a's here, just shared my experience. I think anyone who is trying to seriously upgrade his monitors to one of the Adam's series and has the budget, should at least try the S3a's.
I listened first on the Frankfurter Messe last year (weren't you the guy spinning my favourite disk at that time Peter Gabriel's UP?). That got me excited about the S series and in the end I chose the S3a's and been loving them everyday.

Now, to show I'm not close minded, I'm going to contact Amptec to make sure there demo S2a pair is working properly. Cause one way or another, the difference was very signifant and it was definitely not just a question of the S3a's having another octave in the lowend.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 6th August 2005
  #37
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce
Bob Clearmountain also said he liked the S2As better then the S3As when I demoed them both for him.
BTW, what do you mean "demoed them for fim"? Did he mix on both speakers and decided the S2a's would work better for him? Just curious. If you think this is confidential, I can understand...

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 6th August 2005
  #38
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Bryce's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB
BTW, what do you mean "demoed them for fim"? Did he mix on both speakers and decided the S2a's would work better for him? Just curious. If you think this is confidential, I can understand...
Not at all...

By demoed, I meant that he and I were both at one of my dealers who had both pairs set up, and he spent some time listening to both sets and he said he preferred the sound of the S2As to the S3As.

BTW - please don't get defensive. The S3A is definitely the best selling ADAM in the US (and the set that I own as well) - I was just responding to your having said that you hadn't heard of anyone choosing the S2A over the S3A for any reason other than budget.

dB
Old 6th August 2005
  #39
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce
Not at all...

By demoed, I meant that he and I were both at one of my dealers who had both pairs set up, and he spent some time listening to both sets and he said he preferred the sound of the S2As to the S3As.

BTW - please don't get defensive. The S3A is definitely the best selling ADAM in the US (and the set that I own as well) - I was just responding to your having said that you hadn't heard of anyone choosing the S2A over the S3A for any reason other than budget.

dB
Cool, I guess I'm just excited about my S3a's heh .

So please don't come with an improved version that would make me need to spend another 3.5K heh

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 6th August 2005
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB
Sure, if you like your S2a's, I'm sure you really like them and they work for you, great!

Not to be an ass, just out of curiosity, did you try the S3a's in your room?

Greetings,
Dirk
I think I mentioned in one thread or another if not this one that I did not have the budget for the S3A's so I only demoed (and then bought) the S2A's. Sure maybe the S3A's are that much better and the S2A's are not very good (junk as you seem to be implying) but I do not regret my decision in any way.

Including all the gear upgrades I have done over the years this single purchase, without a doubt, has had the most impact on my projects.

I don't feel like I settled and I don't feel that they are "seriously lacking" in any area. They are light on the bass but not seriously and I have mixed on worse in the low end department. They are better than any NS10 and I have heard many a good product mixed on NS10's with no sub.

In a different thread on this same subject you said that you would rather mix on a pair of Mackie 824's over the S2A's.... I find that unbelievable, at least in my experience and I switched from 824's to the S2A's.

As Byce pointed out there are people who have picked the 2's over the 3's for sonic not budget reasons. I guess that is my point you are knocking the S2A's when you heard them in one environment and you now swear that they are "seriously lacking" but that is not my personal experience and obviously not the experience of some others.

If someone is looking for speakers and has the budget I would recommend that they check out both the S2A's and the S3A's... but that is just me.

We agree to disagree I guess.

Old 7th August 2005
  #41
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i actually want my S3A's to have a new cabinet.... already have the design in my head... thinking about building it myself [unless dave wants me to give up the design to have adam do it for me .... its REAL easy] and i think would be a MASSIVE improvement over the current S3A's, but certianly wouldnt be "bridge" monitors anymore.
Old 7th August 2005
  #42
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

oh btw, about learing the speakers by listening to CDs... man i REALLY had to look[listen] to find material that was truely stunning.

two that are just obscene is sparklehorse 'its a wonderful life' and flaming lips 'clouds taste metallic' for "indy rock".... material's 'hallucination engine' is a great one as well.
Old 7th August 2005
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukarin
IMO moving from 1031s to S3A's is a big jump but well worth it, unfortunately for me the studio isn't planning on upgrading the other rooms. I would love to do a tracking session using the S3A's I'm sure they'd be amazing for mic position, checking phase etc.

You are not kidding. It is a big jump from the 1031s. I'll be tracking a great jazz quartet this Thursday. It will be interesting with the S3As. At this point, with about 20 hours of work on them, I am thinking about keeping them. I had to take part of today of because it's my anniversary, and I took my wife out to a great dinner (I think I needed the break too). Back to work on Monday.
Old 7th August 2005
  #44
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I think I mentioned in one thread or another if not this one that I did not have the budget for the S3A's so I only demoed (and then bought) the S2A's. Sure maybe the S3A's are that much better and the S2A's are not very good (junk as you seem to be implying) but I do not regret my decision in any way.
Well, junk is very harsh, but yes I was completely unimpressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Including all the gear upgrades I have done over the years this single purchase, without a doubt, has had the most impact on my projects.

I don't feel like I settled and I don't feel that they are "seriously lacking" in any area. They are light on the bass but not seriously and I have mixed on worse in the low end department. They are better than any NS10 and I have heard many a good product mixed on NS10's with no sub.

In a different thread on this same subject you said that you would rather mix on a pair of Mackie 824's over the S2A's.... I find that unbelievable, at least in my experience and I switched from 824's to the S2A's.
And I meant that. If the S2a's were the only ones I had heared, I would have stayed with my HR824's (on which I did some serious work and just know...) but my monitor quest would not have been over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new

As Byce pointed out there are people who have picked the 2's over the 3's for sonic not budget reasons. I guess that is my point you are knocking the S2A's when you heard them in one environment and you now swear that they are "seriously lacking" but that is not my personal experience and obviously not the experience of some others.

If someone is looking for speakers and has the budget I would recommend that they check out both the S2A's and the S3A's... but that is just me.
If the Adam series didn't have the S3a, there would be a lot less entousiasm about Adam. Now if they didn't have the S2a's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new

We agree to disagree I guess.
Definitely
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 9th August 2005
  #45
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jjblair's Avatar
Well, I received a pair of S2As that DB sent me today and put them through their paces against my 1031s. Very interesting. When A/B'ing them I really noticed the cross over on the 1031s. The S2As felt more solid in the middle, and didn't seem to have a noticeable crossover point. However, I can tell that I am going to need to demo the S3As. There is just not enough extended low frequencies. The other thing that was interesting was even though I had my 1031s set flat, I had to boost the hi end on the S2As a couple db to get them in the same neighborhood as the Genelecs on the top end. And the other thing that was shocking was that the Genelecs seems airier. You could hear some of those subtle reverb trails a little clearer. Even my assistant noticed it.

I can see how Clearmountain would prefer the S2As coming from NS10s. Unfortunately, Bryce is going out of town for a spell. I'm curious to hear what the deal is with the EQ, like if there's a standard tweak people do. They're great sounding, and I could definitely work on them, but they're not a big enough improvement that I'm going to ditch my 1031s for them. We'll see if the S3As are as different as Dirk claims. I really want to hear what people keep saying about how they mix faster and get less ear fatigue. I could really use some of that.
Old 9th August 2005
  #46
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DirkB's Avatar
When you get the S3a's, make sure you also test them in the upright position, I liked them like that, with the subwoofer up and the tweater at ear level, definitely best.

Interested what you're experiences will be...

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 14th August 2005
  #47
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It's been about 10 days since I have been using the S3As and here are my thoughts.

I have the monitors set up vertically with subs on top, using an O2R96s analog out clocked to an Ardsync. All settings on the speakers are flat. I have mixed 4 songs for an R&B CD (mostly samples with vocals and some sax and guitar) and tracked a jazz quartet ( piano, acoustic bass, drums, and trumpet, using a Spider, API 512s, OSA L3, and Pendulum MDP-1) over 2 days. Here are my thoughts for those interested.

1. Stereo seperation is excellent with a nice wide sweet spot (in my control room)

2. Very easy to hear reverbs and other effects especially decays. I find this takes some getting used to, because I ended up mixing with a little less verb than I thought I had. Works out very well when you get a feel for it.

3. Mids are very true. This is the best difference with the 1031s

4. The high end translates very well and sounds pretty natural to me.

5. Lows take some work getting used to, but my mixes ended up working well. I found acoustic bass easier to hear. I did feel like I was guessing on frequencies below about 70hz, but that may be me just getting used to them.

6. I found the S3As to cause a little more ear fatigue than the 1031s (after about 6 hours).

I ended up getting a decent price for my 1031s so I guess you know what that means heh

It's been and interesting transition. One thing I have to mention. I still think the 1031s are good speakers. I know there are many Genelec haters out there, but I did good work on them and have no doubt that the 8050s work well. The S3As are an improvement for me, so off we go.
Old 14th August 2005
  #48
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns
I found the S3As to cause a little more ear fatigue than the 1031s (after about 6 hours)
OK, that's fascinating. I kept reading that people work faster on S3As and don't get ear fatigue, which is what made me want to try ADAMs. I'm really fine with my Genelecs, but I've been feeling beat up at the end of a rock mix, which is why I am interested in the ADAMs. Can you please talk about this in a little more detail?
Old 14th August 2005
  #49
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Hi JJ,

I have been running my S3As for about 50 hours a week this last year and a half. My experience is completely different to Johns in the ear fatigue department. I am very sensitive to high end and was always fried on the 1031s at the end of a day of rock mixing or electric gtr tracking (you know how the level creeps up during those sessions.) Since switching to the S3As I never suffer from ear fatigue. I generally mix at lower levels now than I needed to on the Genies and even when I do crank them (as I have been doing all this last week) I don't suffer any ill effects.

Perhaps Johns will revise his opinion in time or perhaps we really do hear the high end differently but if you are suffering at the end of long days the Adams are definitely worth a spin. I feed mine with a DAC1, don't know if that colours my experience or not as I've never really used any other DA with the Adams,

cheers,
Ruairi
Old 14th August 2005
  #50
Gear Head
 

JJ

You really should try the 8050's also.
They are not as in your face, image better, and go lower than the 1031's

Mike Chafee
Old 14th August 2005
  #51
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I had a feeling most who use the S3As would disagree about the ear fatigue comment. It seems this is very personal. I never had any problems with the 1031s in that department (and the S3As are not bad by any streach, or I would not have made the purchase). It could be the week I had with long sessions, maybe I was tired, but that's how they affected me. I don't do many loud rock sessions. The DAC-1 may make a difference, I don't know. The 1031s were always fine for me and my NS-10s kill me after about 1 hour.
Old 14th August 2005
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns
I had a feeling most who use the S3As would disagree about the ear fatigue comment. It seems this is very personal. I never had any problems with the 1031s in that department (and the S3As are not bad by any streach, or I would not have made the purchase). It could be the week I had with long sessions, maybe I was tired, but that's how they affected me. I don't do many loud rock sessions. The DAC-1 may make a difference, I don't know. The 1031s were always fine for me and my NS-10s kill me after about 1 hour.
I have not had a chance to use my S2A's enough yet to know but I would assume (obviously) that they will soften up a bit after a few weeks of use. Unless you already gave them 24 hours of static at low to medium levels maybe they just need to burn in a bit for a few weeks? That might he take the edge off the speakers and help with the ear fatigue but YMMV right?

heh

Also in the very limited mixing experience with my new S2A's I find that I am able to listen at much lower volumes and hear the detail I want. I think I used to compensate with louder mix levels to get that detail, not that it works that way but subconsciously I think that is what I was doing. Lower volume is great, to me at least and that is a happy plus to my upgrade.

I don't find myself automaticly reaching for the DAC-1 volume knob at all, kind of set it and forget it unless I want to change volume level. Does that make sense?
Old 14th August 2005
  #53
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matucha's Avatar
s3a definitely sounds different after 14days of use... fuller ;-)
Old 14th August 2005
  #54
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Yeah I checked the S3A's out this week..need more time with em ,but I like what I've heard so far.nice mid action.
I also wanna check the K+H's
And those Barefoot micro mains look cool ....if and when they're avialable.
Old 15th August 2005
  #55
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jjblair's Avatar
And a quick question for all you S3A users: You're listening with the EQ flat, right?
Old 15th August 2005
  #56
Harmless Wacko
 

If you like WHAT THEY MAKE YA DO IN MIX, and enjoy the way they sound during mixing... God bless. Use them.

They must be "learned".

I can tell you that with some certainty.

I am doing exactly THAT right now.

It hasn't been pretty.

Best regards and wishes.

SM.
Old 15th August 2005
  #57
When you say ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman
They must be "learned".
.... I assume you are talking about the S3As then? So you are not liking them?
Old 15th August 2005
  #58
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chap's Avatar
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Dave, but I think I was one of the earliest converts to the S3A's.

I've worked with most types of monitors and was considering the Genelecs.
After spending time with the Genelecs, I noticed I was mixing much faster and much better than I ever had. Then came the sad truth as I listened to my mixes in other environments and considered a career in can collecting.
Dave let me hear the S3A's at the 2001 AES show at 8:30 in the morning.
I had been playing at a booth for 8 hours a day and had 'booth leg'. Not a good situation to audition new speakers. Dave put on Rubber Soul and I heard stuff in there that I had never heard in the 3 vinyl copies that I've been through and the CD.

I ordered them as soon as I got home and they were amazing out of the box.
Being an early pair with the older amp, I had a problem one day. Dave had a new set
on my doorstep the next morning.

These are great, accurate and non fatigueing speakers and your mixes will translate and not just sound pretty in your room.

peace,
chap
Old 15th August 2005
  #59
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

When I got the S3A's I didn't really care for them and after a month or so was ready to send them back to fletcher. Then as I was driving to work I popped in a 15 minute reference mix I had done of a tune I was working on, and it was almost perfect. Every instrument was glued into the place I had put it. The balance was superb, etc. In other words, the Adams had translated my non-conscious instincts into musical reality. End of story. I reluctantly kept them. It's a lot of money for grownup NS-10's, which to me is sort of what they are. But now I can't imagine life without them, and don't really feel the need to reference my mixes on anything else. (I keep my LSR28's around for when I want a big, rewarding soffit-mounted sound)

BTW, when I did the mirror trick and eliminated reflections off my console the S3A-s really improved.

(Chap, thanks for the nice PM way back when. I owe you one back.)

-R
Old 15th August 2005
  #60
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jjblair's Avatar
I don't have any of the translation problems that some of you guys talk about with my 1031s. My room is very accurate and I don't take mixes to another sutuation and get any surprises, so I stopped doing the car check years ago. The only thing I'll do is listen from down the hall to get an idea of over all balance. I mean, I know it ain't broke, but the only times I ever feel like I'm struggling is when there is a lot of loud rock going on. That's really the only thing I'm hoping S3As make my life easier with.
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