The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Pre for contrast with Great River ME-1NV only for vox
Old 2nd August 2005
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Pre for contrast with Great River ME-1NV only for vox

Have been searching all over Gearslutz for an answer to the title question. I'd like to add another preamp for vocals only that would be a good contrast to my Great River ME-1NV Mic Pre.

I have been confused by some of the threads trying to discern the differences in sound based on descriptions offered.

What I would like to avoid is getting a pre that sounds similar to the Great River.

Vocals only I narrowed it down to these three:

AMI TAB-Funkenwerk V-78

JOHN HARDY M-1 Mic Preamp Single Channel

DW FEARN VT-2 Dual Channel Vacuum Tube Mic Pre

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I record a variety of male and female voices.

Thanks, and sorry for the redundancy.

Santo
Old 2nd August 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 

i would look at the pendulum mdp-1a and the d.w. fearn vt-2. i have the great river mp-2nv and the fearn and they compliment each other nicely (not similar). my next purchase will be a pendulum quartet (which has the mdp-1a pre in it).
joshua
Old 2nd August 2005
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Hey brownmouse,

pendulum mdp-1a and the d.w. fearn vt-2.

Both contrast to the Great River. Would you say that the pendulum mdp-1a and the d.w. fearn vt-2 are similar to each other?

Santo
Old 2nd August 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Both contrast to the Great River. Would you say that the pendulum mdp-1a and the d.w. fearn vt-2 are similar to each other?
no, i think the pendulum adds a flavor i don't already have (otherwise i wouldn't be getting it). you may find that one suits your specific needs better than the other, but there's no way to know that without hearing them both in your studio 'in combat'. i hope that helps.
joshua
Old 2nd August 2005
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks Joshua,

I like going to restaurants where there are only a few menu items. That way you are less likely to be confused.

Unfortunately, I can't critically listen very easily. I am not aware of a pro audio dealer in my local area that carries of variety of product to try. Having items shipped in is a chore I am trying to avoid.

I think if I narrow it down to a couple of choices it won't be such a task.

Thanks for the input.

Santo
Old 2nd August 2005
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Can't resist ...

How about my nearly new A DESIGNS MP-2R tube pre ?
See the classified section for details ... triple mint condition !!!

This is a top of the line unit ... and a very very nice "tube IN - tube OUT" mic pre that differs substantially from much of the solid state pre's out there ... I'd also say its comparable to the FERN's ... my .02 ...

jls.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Martech MSS-10

Martech
Old 2nd August 2005
  #8
1484
Guest
Manley pre is smooth and has flexibility in sound due to the gain control
Old 2nd August 2005
  #9
Personally i would focus more on getting different mics.

On vocals this makes a greater difference.

A contrast mic pre for a vocal would be an API.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Martech MSS-10
What is it about the Martech MSS-10 that makes it a contrast?

Quote:
Manley pre is smooth and has flexibility in sound due to the gain control
The Great River also has a gain control. Is there a pronounced tonal difference between the Manley and Great River in your opinion.

Quote:
Personally i would focus more on getting different mics.

On vocals this makes a greater difference.

A contrast mic pre for a vocal would be an API.
It's very timely that you brought up microphones. I am just about to buy a Soundelux e250 with the goal being contrast with my Soundelux U99 which I like on some things. If you could only have two mics for vocals (not vintage), which would they be. I am down to decision time because I need them for talent coming in next week. I have a Rode NTK with a telefunken tube. I can't find a place to use it on vocals since I got the U99.

Thanks for the input.

Santo
Old 2nd August 2005
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by santo


If you could only have two mics for vocals (not vintage), which would they be.


Thanks for the input.

Santo
Non vintage for vocals?

Sony C800-G.

Works on all pop,r&B, and rap.

For a second mic i haven't encountered anything that makes me forget the older stuff.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

I think the Sony is a bit out of my price range at 8K.

Thanks for getting back.

Santo
Old 3rd August 2005
  #13
Dot
Lives for gear
 
Dot's Avatar
santo, there are a lot of preamps that contract/complement the GR NV. But you really haven't given any info about the kind of music you're doing or the kind of sound you want out of the new pre.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Right now I am working on a pop/showtunes type of project ala Miss Saigon, but probably more pop.

Singers are all young and well trained (conservatory style both classical and theater). In fact, most of the singers on the project are from a well-known music conservatory. Some are professional theater performers. Song styles range from ballads, just voice and strings, to pop songs with rhythm section and heavy guitars.

The Great River worked great on male vox. Recording cuts well through tempo rhythm tracks.

I think I need something primarily for female vox, where the voice will dominate the mix against a very economical instrumental arrangement. A very upfront vocal where all the detail and color of the voice recording will be heard.

The lyrics are important because it is show music, that is, a story is told in the lyric. I want the recording to pick up the subtle nuances of the vocal performance. Mainly for the females. I like what I am getting on the males with the Great River.

Sorry for the rambling. I could of said theater music.


Santo
Old 3rd August 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Right now I am working on a pop/showtunes type of project ala Miss Saigon, but probably more pop.

Santo
I'm not so sure you need another preamp for the reasons you state. Have you tried working on the interplay between the Output Level and Gain on the Great River? I'd adjust the Output Level to max or near max. It'll give you the cleanest shades you'll get from the Great River.

Otherwise, you might consider the A Designs MP-1 or MP-2. It's my fave vocal channel.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
I'm not so sure you need another preamp for the reasons you state. Have you tried working on the interplay between the Output Level and Gain on the Great River? I'd adjust the Output Level to max or near max. It'll give you the cleanest shades you'll get from the Great River.
Steven,

After experimenting with my male vocalist on the pop tracks, I did settle on the output level at near max with a gain setting of 20. That seemed to give the performance some character.

When tracking one of the females, the same setting sounded thin, so I began to experiment with increasing the gain. Upon comparison, I liked the fullness that the increase in gain seemed to add, however, I did not like the tone or the color. It sounded slightly processed to my ears.

This is one of the reasons I was looking for a contrast to the Great River. I loved it on this guy's vocal. He is a great singer. Actually they are all very good.

Santo
Old 3rd August 2005
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
I think the Sony is a bit out of my price range at 8K.

Thanks for getting back.

Santo

Santo,

You can always rent one(www.dreamhire.com)

In the end probably a cheaper alternative.

Just an option.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Steven,

After experimenting with my male vocalist on the pop tracks, I did settle on the output level at near max with a gain setting of 20. That seemed to give the performance some character.

When tracking one of the females, the same setting sounded thin, so I began to experiment with increasing the gain. Upon comparison, I liked the fullness that the increase in gain seemed to add, however, I did not like the tone or the color. It sounded slightly processed to my ears.

This is one of the reasons I was looking for a contrast to the Great River. I loved it on this guy's vocal. He is a great singer. Actually they are all very good.

Santo
For the kind of music you're recording I'd definitely try to keep the Output Level in a range of 11 o'clock or so all the way to max.

I'd suggest the A Designs again. You might do some searches to check opinions on it. Here's a PR piece featuring a Gear Slutz regular on the A Designs gear... http://mojopie.ipbhost.com/index.php...518&hl=dresdow
Old 3rd August 2005
  #19
Dot
Lives for gear
 
Dot's Avatar
santo, I don't think you're rambling at all. That info is important.

I think in that case I'd recommend you get into something that's not as heavy on the transformers or as colored. A pre in the clean to transparent range will allow you to pick up more subtle nuances.

The GR NV is sort of syrupy thick, and a bit slow. Very good for adding energy and even "balls" to the source, but not as good for picking up finer details. As you get into cleaner and cleaner preamps you tend to get into faster preamps [ faster "slew" rate ] and it's in those types of preamps where you'll start picking up finer nuances.

I'd recommend you consider:

A Designs MP-1 or MP-2: A clean sort of "hi fi" sounding tube mic preamp, that still gives a warm but uncolored tone.

John Hardy M-1: The quintessential clean SS preamp, IMO. Just a bit of "traction" from the transformer. Also an excellent pre for close-miking acoustic instruments.

Millennia HV-3: Transformerless, transparent, and fast. Amazing detail, imagery and clarity - especially when used with 2 channels in a stereo mic configuration.

Martech MSS-10: Crystal clear and stunning.

Avalon M5 or 2022: Take your pick. A good balance between clean and transparent with a crystaline airy sort of quality.

Just to give you an idea of some of the preamps on the market - and where they fall on the transparent/clean/colored scale - have a look at an in-progress preamp graph I'm working on at http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micpregraph.htm

If you could only have two mics for vocals (not vintage), which would they be.

I'd choose a Neumann M149 and a Sony C800G [ which is not really $8K, BTW ] . The Neumann for that full, big colored sound with creamy, silky mids with airy an high-end, and the Sony for clarity and picking up subtle nuances in a vocal performance. Those two mics complement each other like salt and pepper. I used an M149 and an 800 together on a session recently with a male and female singer on a pop project where their voices needed to blend and complement. The M149 was for the male vocals, which was a raspy tenor who had problems with sibilance on some other mics. And the 800 on a female vox who had a voice that was subtle and needed a sensitive mic to pick up the little things she was doing with her breath. I ran the C800 through a Millennia M-2b tube pre to thicken it up a bit, and ran the M149 through a Millennia HV-3 to let the sound of the voice and mic come through without coloring anything on the preamp side of things.

My 2¢
Old 3rd August 2005
  #20
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Singers are all young and well trained (conservatory style both classical and theater)...

I think I need something primarily for female vox, where the voice will dominate the mix against a very economical instrumental arrangement.

tube gefell -> hardy.

THAT will contrast with your u99 -> great river, and having all 4 pieces gives will cover some serious ground.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 3rd August 2005
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
You can always rent one(www.dreamhire.com)

In the end probably a cheaper alternative.

Just an option.
Thanks for this info. I assumed that rentals were not possible outside of the music markets (LA, NY, Nashville). This will be very helpful.

Quote:
I'd suggest the A Designs again. You might do some searches to check opinions on it. Here's a PR piece featuring a Gear Slutz regular on the A Designs gear... http://mojopie.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=518&hl=dresdow
__________________
Steven
I spoke on the phone with Peter. He liked the Brauner mic paired with his pre's, specifically the Pacifica and the MP-1

Quote:
I'd choose a Neumann M149 and a Sony C800G [ which is not really $8K, BTW ] . The Neumann for that full, big colored sound with creamy, silky mids with airy an high-end, and the Sony for clarity and picking up subtle nuances in a vocal performance. Those two mics complement each other like salt and pepper. I used an M149 and an 800 together on a session recently with a male and female singer on a pop project where their voices needed to blend and complement. The M149 was for the male vocals, which was a raspy tenor who had problems with sibilance on some other mics. And the 800 on a female vox who had a voice that was subtle and needed a sensitive mic to pick up the little things she was doing with her breath. I ran the C800 through a Millennia M-2b tube pre to thicken it up a bit, and ran the M149 through a Millennia HV-3 to let the sound of the voice and mic come through without coloring anything on the preamp side of things.
I think I will attempt to rent the Sony mic to see how it sounds because of the cost before I consider a purchase. Thank you for the detailed gear descriptions. Very helpful.

Quote:
tube gefell -> hardy.

THAT will contrast with your u99 -> great river, and having all 4 pieces gives will cover some serious ground.


gregoire
del ubik
Gregoire, Which Gefell?


Thank you all for the the detail. I have two females coming over early next week. One lady is classical trained and has a big full alto voice...very controlled and consistant. We've done demo tracks, watching her, she doesn't even move. Very controlled. The other young lady is a mezzo, big range, very bright head tone-ish sound. Very much a contrast. The u99 Great River did not work on her.

I'm going to try and rent and purchase some gear for the sessions to have as much variety as possible to try.

Thanks again for the input.

Santo
Old 3rd August 2005
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Steven,

I just read the mojo pie article. Thanks again.

Santo
Old 3rd August 2005
  #23
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

give the umt70 or 71 and the um or m92.1 a shot. they're more honest, even a little creamier, than the u99.

a gefell and a hardy will be stunning on acoustic instruments.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 4th August 2005
  #24
You may want to consider the Buzz Audio MA2.2

http://www.buzzaudio.com/products/ma2.2.htm


Tim Farrant makes world class gear IMHO.
Old 6th August 2005
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

I went ahead and bought a Soundelux e250

I desided to go ahead and try the Soundelux E250. It will be here next week when I have two female vocalists on my project coming to record.

After I buy something, I usually wonder for awhile if or if not I made the right decision. Think that is kind of a common response. So I went searching for reviews on the E250. This is the one I found. http://mixonline.com/news/headline/s...x-eden-080105/

The engineer in this article likes the Rode NTK with the API 512 pre with female vocals. I have a Rode NTK with an NOS tube that I don't use since I got my U99.

Then all of a sudden, it occurred to me, that if the NTK really does sound good on female vocals through an API 512. Maybe if I get the API, I will now have three choices for mics instead of two (U99, E250).

Then I read the thread in Gearslutz on Josh Groban. He uses a Schoeps mk4 according to the article. Thought that it might be a good choice also for recording classically trained singers.

Anyway, I am still going back and forth on the preamp selection. I've based my short list on the great suggestions from y'all that took the time to respond to my query.

Any thoughts on the api 512, given my application?

Santo
Old 25th November 2005
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Have been searching all over Gearslutz for an answer to the title question. I'd like to add another preamp for vocals only that would be a good contrast to my Great River ME-1NV Mic Pre.

I have been confused by some of the threads trying to discern the differences in sound based on descriptions offered.

What I would like to avoid is getting a pre that sounds similar to the Great River.

Vocals only I narrowed it down to these three:

AMI TAB-Funkenwerk V-78

JOHN HARDY M-1 Mic Preamp Single Channel

DW FEARN VT-2 Dual Channel Vacuum Tube Mic Pre

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I record a variety of male and female voices.

Thanks, and sorry for the redundancy.

Santo
The answer is the V-78! Buy it rent it! If the great river doesnt sound good on the vocals the V-78 will, and vice versa. thumbsup
Old 25th November 2005
  #27
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
These are all fine suggestions... FWIW, and I can't explain why, but I've found that the Phoenix Audio DRS-1 goes with the Great River ME-1NV like they were made with the other in mind.

Both are great sounds, but for some reason I will probably never understand in a million years, the two just compliment each other in a manner that no two other mic pre's I've ever experienced have ever achieved... I know I've used this analogy about a bazillion times... but the two go together like raspberries and choclate... two great treats individually, but together they elevate each other to new and exciting levels.

Best of luck with your search.
Old 25th November 2005
  #28
Lives for gear
 
SoZo's Avatar
Avalon 2022
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump