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Guitar chain options, little help?
Old 31st July 2005
  #1
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MikeMitchell's Avatar
 

Guitar chain options, little help?

I'm in the market for a better guitar sound, which won't be hard to accomplish considering my tracks suck at the moment. Currently my chain is LPstandard stock pup's -> marshall tsl602 -> 2 sm57's -> digi002pre's (and converters).. crap. Or sometimes I run direct into the digi pres and use amplitube, also crap. I'm putting a seymour duncan distortion on the bride, and a 59 in the neck.

Two options I have been considering. I'm getting a nicer pre, testing out an API512 and GR mp1nv in a couple of weeks. Going to use this for vocals also. I'm dumping the marshall and replacing it with either a mesa recording preamp or a mesa head and cab and micing it. The mesa recording preamp wouldn't be going through my new API or GR preamp, the mic'ed cab would. Don't know which I should go for. I hear mixed reviews about the mesa recording preamp.

I'm going for a heavily distored, 'crisp', guitar. Ala nine inch nails 'Broken', or manson anti-christ superstar. Any other chain suggestions, pre, guitar, pup, recommendations are MORE than welcomed. Screw playing live I'm only conerned about recording (if that effects any decisions)

Adam
Old 31st July 2005
  #2
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enharmonic's Avatar
 

Lose that particular Marshall before you spend on front end. Get a JCM800 and send it to Splawn for modification. You wont have tripple supper lead hoo-hah, but what you will have is an amp that will rip your face off in a good way.

http://www.splawnguitars.com/marshall_mods.htm

You can't argue with a good Les Paul. There's different, but not better. Though FWIW, Chris Spencer of the Unsane gets one of the sickest heavy guitar sounds I have ever heard with a Telecaster.
Old 31st July 2005
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMitchell
Currently my chain is LPstandard stock pup's -> marshall tsl602 -> 2 sm57's -> digi002pre's (and converters).. crap. Or sometimes I run direct into the digi pres and use amplitube, also crap. I'm putting a seymour duncan distortion on the bride, and a 59 in the neck.
i would change amps to start with (maybe check out some of the randall mts stuff or really there are a ton of good options in the amp department). once you have the rig sounding killer in the room (before you ever plug in a mic) then you can move on to the recording chain. shure sm-57's often work great (so maybe upgrade the other stuff first). the great river mp-2nv (or me-1nv) preamp would be a huge, huge upgrade from the digi 002 preamps. next, i would look at upgrading converters as well. in a reasonable price range the lucid stuff would be a considerable upgrade.
good luck,
joshua
Old 31st July 2005
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
stedel's Avatar
 

Hmm. Tricky question. And you have how much cash at your disposal?
Cool guitar.
Cool mic (the Shure).
Yeah..not too brilliant mic pres and converters.
Ditto the above comments re the Marshall.
But you know a way to getting a big crunchy guitar sound is to either
1. Place one big ****in heavy amp in a room that's got SERIOUS sound proofing and blast the **** out of it.
and/or
2. Get a smaller amp and crank it up.
You can probably pick up a valve (that's VALVE) Marshall Artist 30watt combo amp for a decent price.. OK reverb on the thing also. Maybe dirty it up a wee bit with a SansAmp device -maybe not personal preferences here....
Great for blues type guitar as well...and shock horror also erm...Country and Western
(sorry don't mean to scare).
Then.... realising this is just MHO but better AD converters.
Seriously. Better AD Converters.
Oh yeah..did I mention better AD Converters?
Kind regards
Old 31st July 2005
  #5
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chrisrulesmore's Avatar
 

I struggled for quite a while getting a decent mic'ed guitar sound and, though I'm not there quite yet, I think my front end signal path is pretty close, at least for indie rock/punk.

I'm running my Mesa MKIII through a 1x12 ported widebody Rivera cab, close mic'ed with a 57 into my new Great River ME-1NV and Apogee Rosetta 200 into Pro Tools. The Great River made a dramatic difference on my guitar tracks vis-a-vis my Digi pres (I had a Universal Audio LA-610 before that and it sounded terrible on electric guitars!).

As far as guitars go, I have owned just about every les paul in the lineup, but they all pale in comparison to my P90 equipped Melody Maker that was $300! Run a P-90 through a hi-gain amp and you get all of the balls whilst retaining some modicum of clarity--A/B with a Gibson humbucker and you will never go back. I do have a 335 as well, but it doesn't get used as much. But honestly, you can't go wrong with a Les Paul.

If you are looking for a killer heavy Mesa sound that is not going to break the bank, I would get one of the little F-30 or F-50's...these things will only do clean and scooped-mid punk/metal, but they sound freaking incredible for the money.

Lastly, I hear the Royer 121's are the mic to have these days on electric guitars. And though this is blasphemous to say on gearslutz, I've gotten some pretty amazing tones out of a PodXT.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #6
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MikeMitchell's Avatar
 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm definetely upgrading the A/D but not anytime soon. Going to demo a GR and API this week, got the pre fever. Next coming is a better monitoring system, gotta travel outta state though to a\b some. Damn Kentucky.

I took the F-30 mesa suggestion to hart and I went to the local guitar shop and played with one for about half an hour today, not bad.. Also tried out a dual rec but I still have doubts on my capabilites to successfully mic a cabinet. I'm going to take home a mesa recording amp this weekend also, but I don't have high hopes.
The tsl602 is definetely going, if nothing else I'm ready for a change.

Thanks for the suggestions, Id like a few more ideas if anyone is willing.
Adam

Thanks on the guitar, I think I own the heaviest LP ever produced. heh
Old 2nd August 2005
  #7
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5down1up's Avatar
 

the only thing that changes the tone for real ... is practice

i spend my available time doing that , brain is slow so i hope it will sound good someday . for me its all about the skill .

you could gimme a 10k mic ... when i start to sing ... youll run away


Old 2nd August 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enharmonic
Lose that particular Marshall before you spend on front end. Get a JCM800 and send it to Splawn for modification. You wont have tripple supper lead hoo-hah, but what you will have is an amp that will rip your face off in a good way.

http://www.splawnguitars.com/marshall_mods.htm

You can't argue with a good Les Paul. There's different, but not better. Though FWIW, Chris Spencer of the Unsane gets one of the sickest heavy guitar sounds I have ever heard with a Telecaster.
When I recorded/produced the last UNSANE record(blood run), we ONLY used a tele, a twin, and a dual rec for ALL the guitar takes. There is actually a little bit of tele through a pro junior as well. The twin had a 57 on it, and a tannoy large ribbbon. The rec had a 57 and an RCA BK5a on it. pre's wound up being averill 1272's of all things, and I like the aggresive nature of that recording.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #9
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MikeMitchell's Avatar
 

Hey Joel, could you recommend any specific track I could grab off itunes to hear a good example of the dual rec? Their websites main page makes me want to grab the cd, its sick.
Thanks, Adam
Old 2nd August 2005
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

We relied heavily on the twin to keep the record from sounding like "metal by numbers" rectifier sound, ya know? The blend of the two is crucial for that band.

one of the songs with the rec a little hotter is "backslide" I believe. I think it is the first track on the record... I would have to look. I know it is called "backslide" anyway.

It really still has a ton of twin in it, though. Just a fender twin, ALL the way up, mixed with the dual rec...one performance per song, three or four tracks per performance used in the mix. A few have "ye olde chorus overdub" of both amps again...

I hope that helps you.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #11
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allbaldo's Avatar
 

I'd say the amp is definitely the weakest link of that list. Another amp you migh consider is a JCM 900. Most people don't like them much, but I love 'em. Crisp high end, and easy to record. Great blend with Mesa stuff.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #12
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covert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaldo
I'd say the amp is definitely the weakest link of that list. Another amp you migh consider is a JCM 900. Most people don't like them much, but I love 'em. Crisp high end, and easy to record. Great blend with Mesa stuff.
And it can get better still. Take it to a decent tube amp guy and have the rectifier bridge chip removed from the overdrive channel. You'll get back all sorts of dynamic response and control.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #13
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caseyLA's Avatar
 

Joel, do you EQ the two amps differently when mixing a double setup like that?
Old 4th August 2005
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

I didnt use any EQ on the last unsane, not to tape, or during the mix, on anything. None.

Amp setup, mic and placement, drum tuning, mic choice, bass amp, mic choice....

I just use a brighter mic for the top and a darker mic for the bottom of the sound (for example, oversimplififed) and various compressors that impart different sounds even when used sparingly (or aggresively).

When doing a multi mic setup like that, we liked the roaring upper mids of the twon more than the fizzy metal nightmare of the mesa, so the top of the gtr is more twin/57, and the beef is more mesa/BK5 or tannoy large I think....

I hope that helps.
Old 17th August 2009
  #15
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metalfan8806's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaldo View Post
I'd say the amp is definitely the weakest link of that list. Another amp you migh consider is a JCM 900. Most people don't like them much, but I love 'em. Crisp high end, and easy to record. Great blend with Mesa stuff.


for sure.blending two different types of tones will make your wall of guitars unreal. :D

hell- i've seen peavey and line 6 sounds make a pretty good duet before
Old 17th August 2009
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Callaham ABR-1 bridge)

I recently installed a couple of these, and as a guy who had modded a lot of guitars in his time this is definitely one of the best. The description of its tonal effects is accurate. The first thing you will notice is home much louder your guitar is unplugged. Plug it in and you will find that the overall sound is sweeter and fuller with much greater balance and definition across the strings. It won't improve your recordings as such but it will improve what you are recording on a more fundamental level than any piece of recording gear could.

I would say to install one before changing pickups, you might be surprised at how good the stock pups can sound.
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