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Speck X.Sum vs. other summing units. Mixers (Analog)
Old 24th April 2009
  #61
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strewnshank's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vince @ speck View Post
Sorry about the detent thing. I don’t believe I've ever seen a decent “concentric pot” with a detent.

As a designer, I have mixed feelings about detented pots. I like the concept... we even use them on some of our other products. The problem is that over time, the electrical center can drift due to wear and temperature fluctuation, but the mechanical center remains the same. This can cause an imbalance in the overall mix bus. Sometimes as much as 2dB.

Stepped level controls are possible…are you willing to pay an additional $2000 for (16) stereo 24 position rotary switches? Because that’s what it would cost. Maybe more.
Vince,
Thanks for the design input. From a consumer standpoint, having detented pan pots would be nice, but I don't think even the laziest person would want 2dB of drift in their stereo field after a few years. I send signal through them every now and then just to make sure they are where they should be, and that's OK by me.

I love the thing as it is, and there's no way I'd want to pay 2K for rotary switches. The XSum's price point is one of it's many strong features.
Old 24th April 2009
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoizyNinja View Post
Hey who invited you

This a luv fest for the Speck.
Read the Thread tittle..free Ghetto Pass!heh
Old 25th April 2009
  #63
Gear Addict
 

Speck / Folcrom

The X.Sum looks like a great unit. Folcrom looks cool too, but what's the difference between analog vs. digital gain and pan?
Old 25th April 2009
  #64
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NoizyNinja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
Read the Thread tittle..free Ghetto Pass!heh
LOL! Ok go back to your 'Dangerous' ghetto
Old 27th April 2009
  #65
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ulysses's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooveMerchant View Post
The X.Sum looks like a great unit. Folcrom looks cool too, but what's the difference between analog vs. digital gain and pan?
Controlling the mix from within the DAW means you can automate it and recall it!

I think that the Folcrom paired with a very clean preamp is going to sound very similar to the Speck. You'll be happy either way. You can't go wrong with a Speck. Vince makes some very nice, well-built, and well-designed products.

The advantage of the Speck is that it has controls so you can twiddle in the analog domain. The advantage of the Folcrom is that it DOESN'T have knobs. Think of it as having JUST the detents.
Old 27th April 2009
  #66
Gear Addict
 

But...

...what are the tradeoffs in audio quality between digital vs. analog gain and pan? Maybe that stuff isn't as big a difference vs. analog EQ, compression, and reverb? Any commentary on digital vs. analog gain / pan quality? I like the Folcrom for staying centered or knowing it's left/right. Plain, but simple/cool.

Last edited by GrooveMerchant; 27th April 2009 at 04:38 PM.. Reason: grammar
Old 27th April 2009
  #67
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NoizyNinja's Avatar
 

The Folcrom is definitely cool and i used one for several years but as I got more into the outboard thing I became limited by the hard pan. If I had one acoustic guitar I'd have to send it up the middle or hard left or right if I was using one channel of compression. If I wanted it anywhere else I'd have to send it through two channels and pan it digitally.

As far as the digital/analog pan thing it isn't as important as the analog quality of comp's/eq's/reverb's IMO. You do get more depth of field and stereo width OTB in general.
Old 28th April 2009
  #68
Gear Addict
 

So you're saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoizyNinja View Post
The Folcrom is definitely cool and i used one for several years but as I got more into the outboard thing I became limited by the hard pan. If I had one acoustic guitar I'd have to send it up the middle or hard left or right if I was using one channel of compression. If I wanted it anywhere else I'd have to send it through two channels and pan it digitally.

As far as the digital/analog pan thing it isn't as important as the analog quality of comp's/eq's/reverb's IMO. You do get more depth of field and stereo width OTB in general.
...that going OTB with any summing unit, and things are automatically wider? I came OTB with a cheap system just to test and liked it better - thankfully getting out of the computer (OTC?!). There may something to say for using the Folcrom since you know the center won't drift as Vince mentioned above. That may be another thread? I don't mind using 2 channels on the Folcrom to pan, as long as I'm not panning too much. Quality of digital gain/pan vs. analog may be compenstated as soon as you come OTB? Feeding a dual pre and it already seems to be another world.
Old 28th April 2009
  #69
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e-are's Avatar
very curious

Has anyone tried the speck with a vintech _73 pre. I really like my 473. I've noticed a nice difference with a mackie onyx mixer. I think I will try the speck. Very interesting!!
Old 28th April 2009
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strewnshank View Post
Vince,

I love the thing as it is, and there's no way I'd want to pay 2K for rotary switches. The XSum's price point is one of it's many strong features.
I do get confused by that though, I've got a very cheap (but incredibly useful) headphone amp, the Behringer HA4700, which has got 4 stepped, stereo volume knobs and costs less than £70. Is it just the mass production that makes it so cheap?

Steve
Old 28th April 2009
  #71
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Fishmed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaffa View Post
I do get confused by that though, I've got a very cheap (but incredibly useful) headphone amp, the Behringer HA4700, which has got 4 stepped, stereo volume knobs and costs less than £70. Is it just the mass production that makes it so cheap?

Steve
Buying in bulk would attribute to lower prices. I would bet that Vince goes for the better quality pots, and to top it, the X-Sum's pots are doing dual work: panning and volume.
Old 30th April 2009
  #72
Deleted User
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I had the Xtramix for a while and it was fantastic. I used it next to an api system and mini oram octamix system with fantastic results. Massive headroom and wicked punchy...for what I did with it. The only drawback was the lack of channel inserts .... however, you can get insert action off the 8bus if you need it.
Speck is amazing stuff and Vince is the best.
Old 3rd May 2009
  #73
How are you guys monitoring with your X.Sum? I just picked one up and I haven't gotten the monitoring situation figured out yet. The Mix outputs should go back into my DAW to record a stereo summed mix correct? Then where do I connect my monitors? I have them currently connected to the mix B output from the breakout box but it seems it's an either or thing and that I can't have output from mix a & b at the same time. In other words I need to have Mix A going back into the DAW to record the summed mix but I simultaneously need to hear what's going on so how is this done? Thanks for your help.
Old 3rd May 2009
  #74
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strewnshank's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seawell View Post
How are you guys monitoring with your X.Sum? I just picked one up and I haven't gotten the monitoring situation figured out yet. The Mix outputs should go back into my DAW to record a stereo summed mix correct? Then where do I connect my monitors? I have them currently connected to the mix B output from the breakout box but it seems it's an either or thing and that I can't have output from mix a & b at the same time. In other words I need to have Mix A going back into the DAW to record the summed mix but I simultaneously need to hear what's going on so how is this done? Thanks for your help.
A patchbay will help you in this situation, big time. normal the MIX A regular outputs to your DAW and then patch into your monitors,

If you don't have a patchbay, then plug the MIX A regular outputs into your DAW. Then take the MIX A prefader outs and put them into some sort of monitoring box with an attenuator on them, and monitor that.

Or, if you want to get fancy, plug the MIX A regular outputs into your DAW, then take the MIX A prefader outputs and put them into channel 16 of the XSUM, put channel 16 on MIX B, and plug your monitors into the MIX B outputs. I've never done that, but it should work in theory, right?
Old 4th May 2009
  #75
Gear Nut
 

Xtramix

+1 XTRAMIX

I really really like mine. Solved a ton of problems I was having. Going OTB has been good for my incorporation of outboard effects. IT was right price/right size/right features for me.
Old 5th May 2009
  #76
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bradb's Avatar
 

i LOVE my x.sum

got a crazy deal on it too...

8 outputs from 002 and 8 outputs from Rosetta go to my patchbay and then I can patch to compressors or other outboard.

my channels usually look like this
Kick> Rose1 > Federal> X.Sum 1 Centered
Snare> Rose2 > 160xt > X.Sum 2 Centered
Rack> Rose3 > 501 > X.Sum 3 Panned almost Right
Floor > Rose 4 > 501 . X.Sum 4 panned almost Left
OHR >Rose 5 > X.Sum 5 Panned Hard Right
OHL >Rose 6 > X.Sum 6 Panned Hard Right
Bass> Rose 7 > 1176> X.Sum 7 Centered
Vox >Rose 8> Stalevel>X.Sum 8 Centered

then i do similar things with the other tracks thru the 002.

Sound is amazing!
Old 8th May 2009
  #77
I'm going to end up going a different direction so I have an excellent condition X.Sum for $1,100 delivered anywhere in the CONUS if anybody wants it. I'm open to offers but no trades please.
Old 19th March 2017
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
No, you can't go wrong with the X.Sum... in fact, I personally feel it's one of the very best summing options out there, period. ......
Now 8 years later from the post date, I would like to know if the x-sum is still valid or you moved in a different direction.
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