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3 mic technique on drums?
Old 29th July 2005
  #61
C/G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson
On my last session I stuck a U-47 4 or 5 feet in front of the kit up maybe 5 feet in the air. It sounded stupid good all alone.
I was reading those Phil Brown articles in Tape Op and he used one U47 for the kit on Talk Talk's 'Laughing Stock' album. The drums sound awesome.
Old 29th July 2005
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
...The guy had a nice small and well-tuned kit--a 4 piece...
The key to a BIG sound.
Old 29th July 2005
  #63
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OK, can we NOT refer to this as the "Recorderman technique"? I mean, really. That's such an insult to Glynn Johns and anybody else who uses the technique.

BTW, it's a lot more than 3 mics, but it's got a sample of the 3 mic sound in the mp3. I have a thread over in the EQ mag forum with pics and sound samples from a session from this week that might be relevant. (Yeah, this is a plug.)
http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultim.../t/000007.html
Old 29th July 2005
  #64
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Actually the Glyn Johns technique is very different than the recordermans version. And for the record, recorderman doesn't take credit for it either. I agree too - what would be a good name for it?
Old 30th July 2005
  #65
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My first mic for kit is my trusty 70's U87...4ft infront of the kit. 3.5ft high....then close mic the lot of them....the U87 is SO IMPORTANT to the sound u wouldn't beleive....in middle 8's and intros I find myself using it alone for a "vibe".....
Old 30th July 2005
  #66
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Dokushoka and Not_So_New...

Thanks for the tips on the...ahem... "un-named OH mic technique". I have tons of mics, but none that would really pair up well as OHs other than the 184s...

I have an R92 and a R121, but not sure that they would work well together as OHs...

LDCs - Blue Bottle and U87...??? Maybe, but that would kill my room mic...and they are quite different as well...

Lots of dynamics...Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this a bit more, but in the mean time, I switched back to the spaced pair 184's, and they sound great (my usual placement).
Old 30th July 2005
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
OK, can we NOT refer to this as the "Recorderman technique"? I mean, really. That's such an insult to Glynn Johns and anybody else who uses the technique.[/url]
This "technique" isn't the same. It is just a simple OH technique for guys with limited means to achieve a nice balance with the OH's. From the responses I've garnered over the years, from people who have tried it, it seems to have helped them , and I am just happy that it does. It's not Glynn's 3-mic technique nor have I ever claimed it to be.

BTW: I don't know about Glynn Johns, but Andy Johns loves my drum sounds.

{rant deleted..because i really don't want to be a ranter}

My apologies for a brief distraction to this thread.
Old 30th July 2005
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by recorderman
just saw this JJ...this "technique" isn't the same. It is just an simple OH technique for guys with limited means to achieve a nice balance with the OH's..and from the reponses I've garnered over the years from people it's helped...I'm am just happy that it does, It's not Glynn's 3-mic technique. Why don't YOU quite acting so ****ing arrogant as if you and yours invented bread. I'm about through of your snide full of your self arrogant asides anytime I have an opinion...and now when someone even brings up my "name". As if your the arbiter of anything...

My apologies for a brief distraction to this thread.
There it is then...

thumbsup
Old 30th July 2005
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recorderman
just saw this JJ...this "technique" isn't the same. It is just an simple OH technique for guys with limited means to achieve a nice balance with the OH's..and from the reponses I've garnered over the years from people it's helped...I'm am just happy that it does, It's not Glynn's 3-mic technique. Why don't YOU quite acting so ****ing arrogant as if you and yours invented bread. I'm about through of your snide full of your self arrogant asides anytime I have an opinion...and now when someone even brings up my "name". As if your the arbiter of anything...

My apologies for a brief distraction to this thread.
Keeping it real. Badass.
Old 30th July 2005
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recorderman
I'm about through of your snide full of your self arrogant asides anytime I have an opinion...
Hmmm ... the only opinion of yours I recall disagreeing with was regarding a certain mixing engineer, and the tone of that reply is based on how strongly I feel about him, not you.

I do apologize for the tone of the above statment though. I seem to have misunderstood, because I thought I recalled somebody saying at the beginning of the thread that the isosceles was your technique. I likely would have had the same reaction if somebody called it the "Ethan Johns technique". Sorry about that.
Old 30th July 2005
  #71
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well I can't fault you for your opinion, I took it too personally. And confusion is not unknown to me many times as well. So at least that's clear now on both counts.
Old 30th July 2005
  #72
So I would love to hear Recorderman's take on this??

I have used unmatched pairs on overs with success before and actually as I am setting up my new location now I plan on using my R121 and coles 4040 for the "un-named OH mic technique", 4040 over snare. Wondering what your experiences with different mics are for this technique?

Thanks man.....

(oh and Doublehelix to me the whole "you need to have the exact same mics on overs" is not a rule that I strictly follow but I have never tried unmatched mics for this setup so I can't help much sorry, but as I said above I am heading down that road myself..)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublehelix
Dokushoka and Not_So_New...

Thanks for the tips on the...ahem... "un-named OH mic technique". I have tons of mics, but none that would really pair up well as OHs other than the 184s...

I have an R92 and a R121, but not sure that they would work well together as OHs...

LDCs - Blue Bottle and U87...??? Maybe, but that would kill my room mic...and they are quite different as well...

Lots of dynamics...Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this a bit more, but in the mean time, I switched back to the spaced pair 184's, and they sound great (my usual placement).
Old 30th July 2005
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
So I would love to hear Recorderman's take on this??

I have used unmatched pairs on overs with success before and actually as I am setting up my new location now I plan on using my R121 and coles 4040 for the "un-named OH mic technique", 4040 over snare. Wondering what your experiences with different mics are for this technique?

Thanks man.....

(oh and Doublehelix to me the whole "you need to have the exact same mics on overs" is not a rule that I strictly follow but I have never tried unmatched mics for this setup so I can't help much sorry, but as I said above I am heading down that road myself..)
I tried an unmatched pair once and it sounded alright.
Old 30th July 2005
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I have used unmatched pairs on overs with success before and actually as I am setting up my new location now I plan on using my R121 and coles 4040 for the "un-named OH mic technique", 4040 over snare. Wondering what your experiences with different mics are for this technique?

..)
I`m not sure if I was using anything close to Recordmans technique with the 3 mic thing I was doing (learned it from Fletcher) but I ran into problems using 2 different mics.

The main thing being that 2 different mics will pick up different amounts of low and high end so even if you get the snare to sound kind of centered the kick allways sounds louder in one speaker. Pain in the ass. For those particular recordings I just said the hell with it and went mono because there was no hope of any kind of decent stereo picture.

It sounded great mono though. thumbsup
Old 30th July 2005
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinc
I`m not sure if I was using anything close to Recordmans technique with the 3 mic thing I was doing (learned it from Fletcher) but I ran into problems using 2 different mics.

The main thing being that 2 different mics will pick up different amounts of low and high end so even if you get the snare to sound kind of centered the kick allways sounds louder in one speaker. Pain in the ass. For those particular recordings I just said the hell with it and went mono because there was no hope of any kind of decent stereo picture.

It sounded great mono though. thumbsup

My fear as well... I guess we will see. If I have to I guess I can look into another 4040, I would just rather not go there if I can help it (I have one already and I would rather put the cash towards different stuff... like a 550a for instance.. thumbsup )
Old 30th July 2005
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
what would be a good name for it?
When I saw the thread title, I pretty much knew what was going on in the thread. I could have been wrong. But my guess was, someone wanted to mic a kit w/ 3 mics, & get a nice picture & sound.... Hmmm... 3 mic technique...?

I've always heard something to the effect of, "we're going to use 1 mic on the kit today." And "We're going to try 3 mics on the kit..." The first time I heard "Glyn Johns" was over here. Then I started hearing it all over the place. Kinda like when you get a new car, and you start seeing that model on the road more than ever.

If I've been reading correctly, Recman's trying to get a nice balance with the OH's. How much of the kit winds up in there all depends on you. The 3 mic thing is more of an all out kit capture. Your trying to get a nice pic, sound, balance... a drum kit. If ya have to add a snare mic, go for it. I you have to add/take away... whatever, do it. If you have to move stuff around, do it. thumbsup

I had a track not too long ago where it got stripped down to kik, sna, fok. All that was used in the mix was the one mic, about 4 feet out front, tom high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
I likely would have had the same reaction if somebody called it the "Ethan Johns technique".
I didn't know Elton John had a technique for miking drums!
Old 30th July 2005
  #77
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Recorderman, since I obviously haven't seen the thread on your technique which has been referred to, I would appreciate if somebody can post the link so I can check it out.
Old 30th July 2005
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmmrboy
Hey Chris,
If I remember correctly, weren't you opening different combos for given tunes?

Andrew
yes, exactally. That band (estradasphere) changes genres throughout the album so we wanted to be able to get completely different drums sounds from part to part. those 22 mics will never we open at the same time!

-Chris
Old 30th July 2005
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
Recorderman, since I obviously haven't seen the thread on your technique which has been referred to, I would appreciate if somebody can post the link so I can check it out.
I posted a link to that thread in my first post on this thread. Look for the underlined link in my post called "Recorderman Setup"....
Old 20th August 2005
  #80
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Well, I did some experimenting last night with a 3 mic technique that I've been kick around in my head for a little while. I've never seen it used before, and I'm not sure why because I got a pretty nice stereo image from it. Here is a sample, totally unprocessed. The damn rack tom was out of tune though

http://sfrecording.com/sounds/DrumTest.aif
Old 20th August 2005
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dokushoka
Well, I did some experimenting last night with a 3 mic technique that I've been kick around in my head for a little while. I've never seen it used before, and I'm not sure why because I got a pretty nice stereo image from it. Here is a sample, totally unprocessed. The damn rack tom was out of tune though

http://sfrecording.com/sounds/DrumTest.aif

Sounds pretty good to me but like I may have added before in this thread the fact that the kick isn`t centered is what drives me nuts about using various 3 mic techiniques.

I need kick and snare straight up the middle !

In fact now that I think about it I really like hi hat up the middle as well. The only thing I can deal with on the sides are toms and cymbals which can sound pretty damn cool that way.

Maybe I`m just lame.
Old 20th August 2005
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinc
Sounds pretty good to me but like I may have added before in this thread the fact that the kick isn`t centered is what drives me nuts about using various 3 mic techiniques.

I need kick and snare straight up the middle !

In fact now that I think about it I really like hi hat up the middle as well. The only thing I can deal with on the sides are toms and cymbals which can sound pretty damn cool that way.

Maybe I`m just lame.

hi hat UP THE MIDDLE??? that's a new one on me. why not just print mono, that's what glynn john's did anyway.

lol,
rlnyc.

btw... you can center the kick by measuring distances to the mics from the kick drum (the snare might move a little but hey, can't have everything with three mics, unless you go as above - mono)
Old 20th August 2005
  #83
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Ditto above. You should be able to get it dead on. The OH's should be equa-distant to the snare as well as equa-distant to the kick. You'll find that the "ride side" OH will be lower and further back than the "high hat" side OH to make this happen.
Old 21st August 2005
  #84
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4 mic approach

I've been using the "4 mic approach" for quite some time now (x/y overheads, close mic snare, close mic kick). I wish I had close miced the toms for a recent session I did. The odd thing I noticed is that on ballads when the toms are struck independent of the cymbals, the 4 mic approach works well. On faster, harder stuff when you've got a drummer bashing drums and brass simultaneously (or nearly so), the toms get lost.
Old 21st August 2005
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinc
I need kick and snare straight up the middle !

Why???

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 21st August 2005
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
Why???

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
I really don`t know.


My musical taste is kind of stuck in the past and a lot of those drum kits were done mono even if they were panned to the side a bit.

Since I started out trying to emulate a lot of those recording styles I just got really used to doing the drums that way.

Kit mono up the middle and various percussion (if needed) panned somewhere on either side is what I`ve been doing for years. One reason is some of the arrangements I`ve done have quite a few instruments and it`s easier sometimes if everything has it`s own space.

I should probably snap out of it and get with the times though.
Old 21st August 2005
  #87
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Quote:
Why???
'cause man...the needle will pop out of the groove if you don't
Old 22nd August 2005
  #88
What century are you living in?

Jim Williams
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Old 22nd August 2005
  #89
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I think that was my point
Old 22nd August 2005
  #90
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[QUOTE=rlnyc]hi hat UP THE MIDDLE??? that's a new one on me. why not just print mono, that's what glynn john's did anyway.

lol,
rlnyc.


I find that I am sometimes forced to pan the Hat up the middle to mask the hat spill that comes through when the snare gate opens. These days, drummers love pounding the crap out of the half-open hat. I deplore the sound because it's overused and as an engineer it has always made life difficult. I am not one to use sound replacer, but sometimes it gets bad enough to where I copy a clean snare hit from another part of the song, and paste it through those smashy sizzle parts.

Otherwise, if I center the hat over the snare, the spit gets masked. Anyone else do that?
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