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Avoiding Cheese-tastic reverb?
Old 17th July 2005
  #1
Gear Head
Avoiding Cheese-tastic reverb?

Hi all
I am currently working on a project and need some help with vocal reverb idea.....I am tired of other local/budget studios and the "cheese-tastic" reverb vocals, yet all I get is similar results. The studio i work at has a TC 3000, 600, and if I want I have a sony s777. Any recipies for spicy wocal reverbs/delays? The current project I am working on is a hard rock group with a higher pitched male lead vocal.
Thanks
ChrisG
Old 17th July 2005
  #2
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chriscoleman's Avatar
 

Do you need to use 3-second 'verbs? Try using shorter decay times, or room reverbs...or pump the vocals out into an actual room and set up a few mikes to capture the result.
Old 17th July 2005
  #3
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drundall's Avatar
 

Try experimenting with smaller rooms then delaying the room.
Old 17th July 2005
  #4
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i like delays on vox... and sometimes delays sent into verbs.... and sometimes delays sent into modulators into verbs. treating the vox is a HUGE creative field that is so dependant on teh song.
Old 17th July 2005
  #5
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brianroth's Avatar
 

Alpha made a great overall observation. For a starting point on vox, try a not-too-long decay time with the send pre-delayed going into the 'verb. If sibilance is an issue, run the send to the 'verb through a de-esser.

Bri
Old 17th July 2005
  #6
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
i like delays on vox... and sometimes delays sent into verbs.... and sometimes delays sent into modulators into verbs. treating the vox is a HUGE creative field that is so dependant on teh song.

Huge fan of trying to do it all with delay before patching in a 'verb.

I like to use a stereo delay bus for the vocal. I get a nice sounding repeat going on one side then move the delay time setting on the other side around until it gives you a nice image. Really gives a nice sense of space if it's done right. I also tend to hi pass AND low pass the delay signal. Seems like it doesn't need to go all the way to the top and the bottom. Then try compression on it.
Old 17th July 2005
  #7
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cdog's Avatar
The more dense the mix, the less reverb you use is my rule. For hard rock that means only a tad with a very fast decay. I love the Kurzweil KSP8 room and chamber simulations for this.
Old 17th July 2005
  #8
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mikey's Avatar
 

try using one reverb for the lead voice and nothing else on that same reverb...
if your unit has a setting for the reverbto be enhanced by not using other effects a t the same time ..try it
Old 17th July 2005
  #9
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audioez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
try using one reverb for the lead voice and nothing else on that same reverb...
No slight on your advice; On the opposite I've found using one reverb for everything helps me concentrate at the task in hand, and moving swiftly through lots of mixes.

If any one cares I mix mostly pop/rock radio friendly music, as well as mixing music for broadcast
Old 17th July 2005
  #10
Gear Addict
 

On a DAW or Pro-Tools: record the reverb 100% wet to a seperate track, then...

The 100% wet:

a) bring it up and mix it with the original "dry" signal

b) sculpture with EQ

c) Tune it down/up a few cents

d) spectralize it, widen the stereo field etc. ----> no end what you can do with that 100% wet signal...

.
Old 17th July 2005
  #11
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mikey's Avatar
 

im not a pro --thats just my latest thought on how to do it ....dont the pros use several reverb units on a song???
Old 18th July 2005
  #12
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i RARELY use more than one reverb, and usualy not much reverb at all.
if I use a second reverb it's usually only for the drums or a special solo sound.

But for a hard rock project especially I quite agree that a delay and perhaps ONLY a delay is a good idea.
I don't think you NEED reverb.
Old 18th July 2005
  #13
Gear Head
Keep the ideas coming! After a bad experience with reverb ( ala the equivilant to a long night of drinking and the hangover that occured) I have been timid to use reverb. I will post some samples in the MP3 section next week!
Old 18th July 2005
  #14
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mikey's Avatar
 

if your gunna use it don't print it until mix down that way if you use to much you can remix without re-recording tracks tutt
Old 18th July 2005
  #15
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dokushoka's Avatar
 

Yeah a quarter note delay with a low pass filter can make a vocal sound huge. Its all about getting it sitting just below the dry signal though. If I use a reverb (other than for dramatic effect) I use short decays, maybe 1 sec or less even. I keep them dense and dark.
Old 18th July 2005
  #16
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

assuming you have the decay and predelay dialed:

turn up the monitors nice and loud, 85db is my ideal. don't skimp on the volume here, you really need to be able to hear into this. solo the voice and the verb. turn up the send until you just begin to hear the verb *behind* the voice and around the ends of words. it shouldn't sound wet, wet is too much. just more weighted, a little deeper.

keep the volume up, and bring back the mix. if you nailed the send, you probably won't be able to hear the verb with the music going, but you'll miss it if you mute it. if you don't miss it when you mute it, begin to nudge the send up .5db at a time, while flicking that mute on the verb, until you do miss it when it's gone.

depending on the mix and the eq of the verb, you may or may not hear it with the music in, if you do it'll be super subtle and not audible to the average joe. but having reverb tucked back like that on all the primary, up-front elements will give the whole mix a sweet depth. the better you tuck it in, the longer the decay you can get away with too, which gives you options for creating mood and energy.

can't be overstated: predelay is crucial. shorter predelay makes the source sound farther away, which may or may not be what you want.

lastly, when the mix is done, mark the verb's fader and then play with it fearlessly. bring it way up, pull it way down, and listen to how the mood of the song changes in response. it you're like me, you'll end up liking something different than what you originally marked.

buss to tape, thank the muse, smoke 'em if you got 'em.


gregoire
del ubik
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