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40k Console, Rembrandt, what else? Consoles
Old 11th April 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

40k Console, Rembrandt, what else?

Two friends of mine and me will move to a house, changing parts of it into a Studio. They are both musicans, me the engineer. We want to spend around 40k on a console and the distributor of Amek offers us a completly serviced Rembrandt for about that money. We can check it out in depth, but before we do that, I would be exited to hear all the pros and cons, plus the things to watch out for on that one.
How does it sound compared to .......? (SSL, Cadac, Mci, ADT, Mitsubishi)
If anybody knows about the powerconsumption of it, it would be nice too.
Any other desks that are interesting?
We need a reliable desk where you need a tech very seldom, so right now were not looking for old MCi desks and such.
Any input is welcome.
Yours
Jakob
Old 11th April 2003
  #2
Re: 40k Console, Rembrandt, what else?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jakob
Two friends of mine and me will move to a house, changing parts of it into a Studio. They are both musicans, me the engineer. We want to spend around 40k on a console and the distributor of Amek offers us a completly serviced Rembrandt for about that money. We can check it out in depth, but before we do that, I would be exited to hear all the pros and cons, plus the things to watch out for on that one.
How does it sound compared to .......? (SSL, Cadac, Mci, ADT, Mitsubishi)
If anybody knows about the powerconsumption of it, it would be nice too.
Any other desks that are interesting?
We need a reliable desk where you need a tech very seldom, so right now were not looking for old MCi desks and such.
Any input is welcome.
Yours
Jakob
For $40K there is alot out there.

Will this be a commercial facility or strictly in house productions? Will you be just tracking,mixing or both? If so is automation important?

If i were looking at an Amek desk right now, I wouldn't look at the Rembrandt but the Amek Media 5.1 in this price range.

It has a lot going for it(Neve pre's and EQ's),Surround ready,Supertrue automation,snapshot auto(for pans,EQ's,aux sends and faders). The footprint is not that large and it has a nice sound.

Its easy to use and if you have other engineers coming through, they can pick it up real quick.

There are tons of other choices such as: Neotek.

A used SSL4000 or 6000 is in this realm also.

Again lots of options based on your needs.
Old 11th April 2003
  #3
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

It won´t be a facilty for rent.
The two musos are doing really good as players and actors, I do album productions for them and other bands.
Due to tax laws we have to spend a lot of money this year, plus we checked the amount of money we have already/will be spending on studio time, we figured we could pull it off ourselves, especially since we all wan to live and work at the same place. We tested this by renting houses for production and living there.

Is there a link for Neotek?
I dont know if they have distribution in Germany.
I would like to have a Cadac like sounding desk, but we used one for an album and it constantly broke down.

Yours
Jakob
Old 11th April 2003
  #4
Quote:
Originally posted by Jakob
It won´t be a facilty for rent.
The two musos are doing really good as players and actors, I do album productions for them and other bands.
Due to tax laws we have to spend a lot of money this year, plus we checked the amount of money we have already/will be spending on studio time, we figured we could pull it off ourselves, especially since we all wan to live and work at the same place. We tested this by renting houses for production and living there.

Is there a link for Neotek?
I dont know if they have distribution in Germany.
I would like to have a Cadac like sounding desk, but we used one for an album and it constantly broke down.

Yours
Jakob

Jakob,


I don't know if its Sytek or MartinSound that is distributing Neotek now(I am sure some of the Neotek lovers here know).heh

Hey have you spoke to the Amek dealer about the Media 5.1?


Good luck.

TTF
Old 12th April 2003
  #5
Gear Head
 

Hi Jakob,

You may want to consider a Euphonix console. I wouldn't recommend this console for a facility that is looking to attract freelance engineers, but from what you described, it sounds like it may fit your application quite well.

Euphonix consoles have a bit of a learning curve, but once you get your head around it, you can really fly on them.

They are not a "colored" sounding console, such as a vintage Neve or API, but they do sound great. Very clear and punchy, with lots of headroom, nice EQ and dynamics, and instant total recall. You can literally recall an entire mix (faders, EQ, Dynamics, auxes, track names, etc.) in about 30 seconds! Try that on an Amek or an SSL.

They are one of the most reliable consoles available due to their unique architecture. Total analog signal path, digitally controlled from a remote console. All of the analog circuitry lies in an audio tower, away from the control surface. These consoles are known to be extremely reliable.

Contrary to what TheThrillFactor said, an SSL 4k would not be in your price range, unless you want a real fixer upper that would probably require about $40k-60K (in addition to your initial $40k investment) in repairs to bring it up to good working condition. I would not recommend an SSL 6k, because they were designed for post and film work, not traditional music recording, and would probably require an even larger additional investment to bring them up to speed for a music recording application. I'm fairly knowledgeable about the used SSL market at this time, as I have been actively looking to purchase one for my new facility for the last 3-4 months.

I realize that what follows may make what I previously wrote sound like a sales pitch, but I think you will find, in fact, that it is quite accurate.

I happen to have a Euphonix console for sale which I am selling at a very aggressive price. I am selling it to move into an SSL 4k, because my new facility -IS- looking to attract freelance engineers.

The following are the specs of the Euphonix I have for sale:

- Euphonix CS2000 56 fader analog desk (168 inputs)

- 104 frame - 4 buckets (frame can be configured as a 3 bucket frame which accommodates 72 faders if smaller footprint is desired)

- CS3000 audio tower with rev. F trays and rev. F backplane

- DSC

- CleaR displays

- vU meters in master section

- (4) ES108a Dynamics (32 ch. of dynamics)

- (8) Euphonix 96 pt. TT patchbays

- 20 meter cabling

- Pentium computer running Mixview 3.2 software

- Manuals

- Completely gone through by Euphonix in July, 2002 and given a "clean bill of health". (Euphonix report available) Console has been decommissioned and stored in my dining room since that time... my wife loves me for this one!

- Price: $42,000 US ((I'm willing to sell it for $36,000 US with (1) ES108a Dynamics (8 ch. of dynamics) instead of four)) This is a lot of console for this price!

- Located in Chicago, Illinois USA
Old 12th April 2003
  #6
Quote:
Originally posted by dumbleator
Hi Jakob,

You may want to consider a Euphonix console. I wouldn't recommend this console for a facility that is looking to attract freelance engineers, but from what you described, it sounds like it may fit your application quite well.

Euphonix consoles have a bit of a learning curve, but once you get your head around it, you can really fly on them.

They are not a "colored" sounding console, such as a vintage Neve or API, but they do sound great. Very clear and punchy, with lots of headroom, nice EQ and dynamics, and instant total recall. You can literally recall an entire mix (faders, EQ, Dynamics, auxes, track names, etc.) in about 30 seconds! Try that on an Amek or an SSL.

They are one of the most reliable consoles available due to their unique architecture. Total analog signal path, digitally controlled from a remote console. All of the analog circuitry lies in an audio tower, away from the control surface. These consoles are known to be extremely reliable.

Contrary to what TheThrillFactor said, an SSL 4k would not be in your price range, unless you want a real fixer upper that would probably require about $40k-60K (in addition to your initial $40k investment) in repairs to bring it up to good working condition. I would not recommend an SSL 6k, because they were designed for post and film work, not traditional music recording, and would probably require an even larger additional investment to bring them up to speed for a music recording application. I'm fairly knowledgeable about the used SSL market at this time, as I have been actively looking to purchase one for my new facility for the last 3-4 months.

I realize that what follows may make what I previously wrote sound like a sales pitch, but I think you will find, in fact, that it is quite accurate.

I happen to have a Euphonix console for sale which I am selling at a very aggressive price. I am selling it to move into an SSL 4k, because my new facility -IS- looking to attract freelance engineers.

The following are the specs of the Euphonix I have for sale:

- Euphonix CS2000 56 fader analog desk (168 inputs)

- 104 frame - 4 buckets (frame can be configured as a 3 bucket frame which accommodates 72 faders if smaller footprint is desired)

- CS3000 audio tower with rev. F trays and rev. F backplane

- DSC

- CleaR displays

- vU meters in master section

- (4) ES108a Dynamics (32 ch. of dynamics)

- (8) Euphonix 96 pt. TT patchbays

- 20 meter cabling

- Pentium computer running Mixview 3.2 software

- Manuals

- Completely gone through by Euphonix in July, 2002 and given a "clean bill of health". (Euphonix report available) Console has been decommissioned and stored in my dining room since that time... my wife loves me for this one!

- Price: $42,000 US ((I'm willing to sell it for $36,000 US with (1) ES108a Dynamics (8 ch. of dynamics) instead of four)) This is a lot of console for this price!

- Located in Chicago, Illinois USA

Call or email me if you are interested in my console. If not, I would still recommend you seriously consider a Euphonix. From what you described, it sounds like it may be the ticket for you.

Regards,

Mark Locascio
phone: (847) 980-9747
email: [email protected]
Sorry Mark,

I have to disagree on three folds:

1) While a Euphonix is not a bad console, the EQ's and especially the Dynamics are pretty much lifeless and boring. They are both sterile and clinical. If you like sterile and clinical sounds for your dynamics than i would recommend a digital console.

2) You can find an SSL for that price range, probably not with TR but with VCA automation. If this is all in house than this may not be a big as a deal. Still i would recommend some outboard mic pre's for either console.

3) On the SSL6000 point, lots of records were mixed and are still being mixed on them(Larabee's 6000 is still getting plenty of work). At times I prefered the sound of a 6000 over a 4000. You can so simple mods on it to make it work for you. The whole film thing is issue is in regards to the 5000.

Again in the end its up to you.
Old 12th April 2003
  #7
Try:
www.recordingconsoles.net

There are quite a few German based contributors on the discussion forum.

Old 12th April 2003
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Hey all,

I would also recommend a Euphonix Console. I have one myself, but unlike dumbleator, mine is not for sale! I really suugest you check these out. They are very clean and transparent - not very coloured. But they sound incredible. I actually think the EQ is amazing. Very flexible as are the dynamics. A lot of people use or have used them including, Bruce Springsteen, Babyface, David Foster, Glen Ballard, Trevor Horn and Hans Zimmer to name a few.

BTW, the price that dumbleator is selling the console for sounds like a very good deal. Anyone else thinking about a large format console could do a lot worse if it is in good condition.

Cheers,

Everglass
Old 12th April 2003
  #9
Gear Addict
 

If availability in your neck of the woods is an issue, D&R is likely to be pretty easy. You don't hear much about them, but there are some folks who run them that are religiously devoted to them. I haven't checked their pricing in a while, but I'm sure you can get a very serious setup from them within your budget.

Bear
Old 13th April 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Hmm...

As far as cool console for inhouse productions heres my list that will fit into your budget.

OLD SSL e series.. but be prepared for lotsa tech work. As in that price range you will prolly only be bale to find one that was built int he mid 80's and thats starting to get old for one of these puppies. so rewitching general maintentance will prolly be a big issues. On the other hand u may find one that has been given lotsa TLC along the way in which case u would be laughing!

DAKING console... OMFG this looks like a bitchin lil console with Fantastic EQ,Pre's and prolly a bag of headroom to burn.

Small Neve baby V.. very nice.

Small Neve 5300 w/ 33114'S! thas my pick of the lot along with daking!

Perhaps an API of some description.

Neotek Elite.. you will find many of these in your price range and are truly ACE consoles.. so u may find one for around 20K and then spend the rest with Fletcher buying some bitching outboard to compliment your neotek!

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 14th April 2003
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Neotek is now part of Sytek audio. They are located in the Chicago suburbs. The Neotek link of the site doesn't work, but the phone numbers and email are good.
Sytek
The cool thing is that you can get a NEW Neotek Elan or Elite.

The same is true of the Amek Media 51 and the D&R line. I don't think you can touch a Media 51 of $40K but I think you can get a D&R and I'm sure a Neotek for that.

A side note on the Euphonics consoles. I know a platinum producer who has a CS3000 in his private facility. He is also part owner of a room in LA with a Neve. He told me when he's working on the Neve that he misses certain things about the CS3000, especially the dynamics. Diff'rent strokes...
Old 14th April 2003
  #12
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

Ok thank you so far.
Due to your recommendations we now consider:

D&R Cinemix. mainly because of automation, reliability. How is the sound?

MCI538. For its sound (anyone?), its completly recapped and rebuilt. Its not on recordingconsoles.net, so I´ll appreciate any recommendations.

Neotek Elite: its new, sound.

We dont consider Euphonix.

Sincerely yours
Jakob
Old 14th April 2003
  #13
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 

I'm not a big fan of the automation on the D&R consoles, but I do love their consoles for more important reasons.
The user interface of the Power VCA is simply not cutting it. It looks and behaves like it came directly from the stone age. But I heard rumours that D&R is working on a new version of their automation system.



Disclaimer

My info comes from owning an Orion desk but I think the automation on the Cinemix is more or less the same.


PS: I love D&R tech support. They're unbelievable.
Old 14th April 2003
  #14
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jakob
Ok thank you so far.
Due to your recommendations we now consider:

D&R Cinemix. mainly because of automation, reliability. How is the sound?
I've owned a 48 input Cinemix for about 6 years now - I'm still very happy with the sound. I've only had 3 or 4 tech calls in the last 6 years - according to my friends who support SSL's, that's amazing. I haven't used the automation in years - it works, but it's generally not worth fooling with for my projects.

The sound is nice - more transparent than a transformer based console, but that's not a bad thing, in my opinion.

I wanna know abou the new automation, though. Studjo, what can you tell me about that?
Old 14th April 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 

Dave all I heard came from a sales weasle (sp?). He said that D&R is working on a new user interface (probably something that works with windows and not with dos). Better grafics and stuff.

I ask him when it's available.

Jo
Old 15th April 2003
  #16
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
Dave all I heard came from a sales weasle (sp?). He said that D&R is working on a new user interface (probably something that works with windows and not with dos). Better grafics and stuff.

I ask him when it's available.

Jo
Well, it makes a certain amount of sense that there will be a new interface, if not an entirely new software package. The automation PC for my Cinemix uses the old Musiquest 32M MIDI/SMPTE card in the computer to connect to the console (Even though the sales weasel and Duco told me that it was NOT a MIDI based system). Since those cards fit an ISA slot, and PC's don't have ISA slots anymore, they'll have to do something.

I told them 5 years ago what I wanted - a way to draw off-line automation and a way to use the faders on the console as an interface to control the Pro Tools rig. As far as I know, neither has happened.
Old 15th April 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 

Can you read my mind. I'd like to have the same things on my automation package.
The thing with the faders controlling Pro Tools would be nice but I doubt that they can realise that. Is there actually an analog desk that can use its faders for Pro Tools automation?
Old 15th April 2003
  #18
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
Can you read my mind. I'd like to have the same things on my automation package.
The thing with the faders controlling Pro Tools would be nice but I doubt that they can realise that. Is there actually an analog desk that can use its faders for Pro Tools automation?
Well, I seem to remember that back around Pro Tools 4.x, there were emulations for several boards, including an O2-R. IU don't know if that's stil the case, though. And I know that O2R isn't an analog desk, but it does have faders...
Old 15th April 2003
  #19
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studjo's Avatar
 

I think the new Yamaha desks DM2000/DM1000 can use the faders for Pro Tools. The Yamaha site says something about DAW integration (whatever that means - my analg desk integrates very well with Pro Tools )

Al Smart makes something for SSL desks to control Pro Tools (transport not fader control - Pro Tools behaves like a tape machine)
I wish you could have a 002 as work surface for a TDM system. You could built that into the analog desk and don't worry about the keybouard form the computer for most applications.
Old 15th April 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
lowswing's Avatar
 

i just freelanced in a studio that owns d&r cinemix, while a very nice console it felt physcally too much like a toy with very light faders, it might be a good value but not impresing if you want to bring in other producers/engeenirs
Old 15th April 2003
  #21
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by lowswing
i just freelanced in a studio that owns d&r cinemix, while a very nice console it felt physcally too much like a toy with very light faders, it might be a good value but not impresing if you want to bring in other producers/engeenirs
I'm not too sure what you mean; they are Alps faders, and I really like the smoothness. Perhaps it's that the faders don't actually pass audio but simply control a VCA inside the board, and that makes them lighter.

And I must say that when I bought my Cinemix, I was not looking to impress engineers - SSL, Neve and API do that. I simply wanted a console that would work well for me in a price range that I could afford. I'm more upset that they've lowered the price so much since I bought mine.
Old 15th April 2003
  #22
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Hey Dave, what does a Cinemix go for these days? Eventually I'll be looking at a board upgrade if upgrading my Ghost doesn't do it for me.

If anybody wants to know, I've heard glowing reports from about running the newer Ghost power supplies with a variac at 130. Of course, Ghosts belong more in Jay's forum than here. Impressing producers with a flashy board ain't my game, though. I'd rather work with people who listen first.
Old 16th April 2003
  #23
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
Hey Dave, what does a Cinemix go for these days? Eventually I'll be looking at a board upgrade if upgrading my Ghost doesn't do it for me.
There's a recent price list (in euros) at:

http://www.d-r.nl/dnrsite/contacts/Pricelist.html

and contact information for Paul Westbrook, the US rep, at:

http://www.softfilescorp.com/D&R.html
Old 16th April 2003
  #24
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

Ive found a Trident S90.
What about that?
How does it sound?
Jakob
Old 16th April 2003
  #25
Jakob,
Seems to be one of the many outfits claiming to be offering the true Trident sound and the so called 'British Eq'.
In the past several gearslutz have posted to be wary of the various 'Trident' claims from different companies.
Not only that, but the real Trident sound comes from the classic consoles of the 70's.
There are a few bargain Trident 80 consoles around at the moment. If you are looking primarily for sound vs price I'd chase up one of those rather than the more recent S90.
If something modern, reliable and with automation is your bag I'd look elsewhere.
Old 16th April 2003
  #26
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

"Seems to be one of the many outfits claiming to be offering the true Trident sound and the so called 'British Eq'."

Are you talking about oram?
The console I found is 1993. Its mentioned at the tritech website.
You mean its not worth it soundwise?


There are a few bargain Trident 80 consoles around at the moment. If you are looking primarily for sound vs price I'd chase up one of those rather than the more recent S90.

Where?
I cant find **** at the moment!

Yours
Jakob
Old 16th April 2003
  #27
http://www.proaudioeurope.com
Look at London office:
Trident 80 Series £7,000!
Soundcraft 40 input TS12 £3,500
Neve 5016 48/8 £23,000
and my fave pic
Api 24/8/16
Fantastic compliment of eq's, fantastic sound £27,500

or
http://www.soundsinc.co.uk/Consoles.htm
Trident TSM (1975) 40ch £15,000
Neve 51 48ch £19,000

or
http://www.larking.com
Refurbed Amek and SSL6000:

IMO it's a buyers market out there, especially with $40k to spend. BTW, this is just Europe (to cut down on Jakobs shipping costs).
Old 16th April 2003
  #28
Gear Head
 
Jakob's Avatar
 

Oh thank you very much...
theres a Funky Junk in Paris, that`d be good.
jakob
Old 17th April 2003
  #29
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
There's a recent price list (in euros) at:

http://www.d-r.nl/dnrsite/contacts/Pricelist.html

and contact information for Paul Westbrook, the US rep, at:

http://www.softfilescorp.com/D&R.html
Dave, Thanks! Big up yo self!
Old 27th December 2004
  #30
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
Hi all,

I read a lot of people saying that an SSL4000E will per definition require lots of work before it will run. That is not true. if you look hard enough, you'll find some E's that are in very good shape. I still got an SSL4056 with total recall and a G computer upgrade. I got all orange EQS! THat's right, not just a few of them but all of them are original orange EQs and they sound bloody great. My console is in perfect condition. If you look at it you couldn't tell it is used a lot. I think a good maintenance is very important.
On top of all the options, it has a switched power supply so it actually consumes a lot less energy than with the original SSL power supply.

I have gotten offers from potential buyers who wanted to pay 60k but untill I find something better and affordable, I see no reason for selling it.

The dynamics are awsome, the master section is great and these orange EQs sound fabulous! The warmth in there is unlike anything I have ever heard before.

I can't speak for euphonix since I have never heard one but consider this, 74,5 % of the USA Number 1 hit singles was mixed on an SSL4000. There is probably a reason for it and you can get a good SSL4000 for 60k.


Kind regards
Lawrence
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