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U67 vs. U87
Old 15th July 2005
  #1
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

U67 vs. U87

Hi, I'm sure this topic has been asked before, but I'm in the market for a vintage Neumann mic that will be mainly for vocals, but will hopefully do other things well also. I've used the 87 before, but I've only heard about how good the U67's are. What are the pro's and con's of each? Thanks.
Old 15th July 2005
  #2
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

the 67 sounds much, much, much better than the 87 in my opinion.......
a good 67 is very magical
the 87 , in my experience is either overlooked or a very
good tool for an engineer that has a
thing with them
a good 67 is very hard to find and much more
expensive.......
there are many variables
they are both good mics

if you have found a good 67, however, and you are feeling
flush, i doubt its aquisition will be something you'll regret..........

- jack
Old 15th July 2005
  #3
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Well, Vintage King Audio has several 67's, but I'm in Florida and I can't exactly test them out. They said that the prices vary depending primarily on cosmetics so I doubt that buying the most expensive one will be the best one, you know. Any tips on finding a good one out of the bunch? I guess I could take they're word for it... they seem to know they're ****.


Thanks by the way. I was leaning towards the 67 but I see 87's just about everywhere I look. Later.
Old 15th July 2005
  #4
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The U67 is one of the best sounding universal mics with an unique character: punchy mids, very controlled highs (good for silbiant singers) and a very controlled bass too (sometimes you don't even need shockmount).

An U269 may be an alternative: same mic but different tube (AC701), it's quiter, has a little less midpunch but a bit more overall presence.

The U87 is a good universal mic too but hasn't the "live" and qualities of the U67/U269.

Andreas
Old 15th July 2005
  #5
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Completely agree with that last post. Having owned a U87ai, two vintage U87's, an M269(it's an M by the way, not a U) and a U67.....the U67 is the only one that remains. The M269 is an incredible mic which could be viewed as subjectively 'better' than a U67 depending on the song/singer. The ai that I had, which I believe was an early production run of the ai's, was a very decent sounding mic. I recorded some great vox with that one. Unfortunately, when I got the U67, it had to go. The vintage U87's, which had just been serviced by a reputable mic tech, were just dog's. I can't say one good thing about them, so beware of that breed. Now, with the U67, you need to be aware of the fact that the mic came stock with high and low pass filters for broadcast specifications at the time. Some U67's have had them removed and some have been left stock. Some like it left stock and others like what the mod achieves. I had mine modded by Bill Bradley of the mic shop in Nashville when I purchased it from him and I'm very happy with the sound. You can't go wrong with Vintage King either. They have all their mics gone through by Tracy Korby who is one of if not the best in the biz.
Good luck,
Sean
Old 15th July 2005
  #6
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Igotsoul4u's Avatar
U67's are so amazing. I would say its in a league above the 87. The U67 sounds so real that it freaks me out sometimes. A vocalist is practically inside your head its so focused. Oh did I mention I love u67's? Get one of those. I am jealous if you do.
Old 15th July 2005
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u
....A vocalist is practically inside your head its so focused....
externalize it !!! - or see a neurologist heh

my microphone chart for vocalists:

1st) U47 fet

The U87 i use only for voiceover, and sometimes strings sections.
Old 15th July 2005
  #8
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jomo1234's Avatar
 

A VERY good alternative is to find a good U87 and get an Innertube U87 tube modification unit. It installs in 5 minutes and requires NO modification to the mic. You simply pop off the capsule assembly and reinstall it onto the Innertube chassis. It fits right into the standard 87/67/269 body. Considering that you can get a nice U87 for around $1500-$1800 and that the Innertube Audio kit is around $1800, you will have two really nice sounding options for less than the current price for a good U67. I can personally attest to the quality of the tube mod....they sound incredible.
Old 15th July 2005
  #9
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
The U67 is one of the best sounding universal mics with an unique character: punchy mids, very controlled highs (good for silbiant singers) and a very controlled bass too (sometimes you don't even need shockmount).

An U269 may be an alternative: same mic but different tube (AC701), it's quiter, has a little less midpunch but a bit more overall presence.

The U87 is a good universal mic too but hasn't the "live" and qualities of the U67/U269.

Andreas

I more or less grew up in studios. I was always singing through 67s and 87s, and to this day, even though the U67 I believe is a better overall mic, there is still some kind of quaility...I don't know what to call it....something in the transient response probably related to the excellent capsules, that I hear in the Neumanns. I really love it. It's a fast, sensitivity that I haven't heard in any other mic. You can't go to wrong with an 87, and what's really nice is that if you want to spend another 1500 or so someday, you can send it to Klaus Heyne and get a world class mic back. His 87 mods are pretty unreal.

TH
Old 15th July 2005
  #10
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U67 - I think it is a good mic, but I never got overly excited about it on male vocals. It does sound real good on many female vocals and guitar cabintes. Personally, I would rather have a good U47, M49, or C12!
Old 16th July 2005
  #11
Gear Nut
 

The U-67 is a great mic. I've found I can use it on almost any kind of vocalist and it usually sounds "very good" at least, not hyped. Nice midrange, definitely not scooped there, very little problem with sibilance. You can EQ highs to taste.

U-87 can sound great on some singers, too sibilant on others. If the singer has strong "s"s, it's hard to get rid of even with radical EQ. Used a lot for movie v/o work as it cuts through because of the 8k ish HF boost.

My preference is an M269c, as mentioned the broadcast version of the U-67 which uses the AC701 tube. More gain (tons of it), extended highs, quieter but with the same big sound of the U-67. You can EQ in just the amount of highs you need without it getting sibilant. Expect to pay $4,000 and up if you can find one.

There's just something about the sound of a vintage tube Neumann...

Audy O
Old 16th July 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Does Gefell offer something like an U67?
Old 16th July 2005
  #13
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Doublehelix's Avatar
 

What is a good price on a "good condition" 60's-era U67?

The local GC has had one in the case for a while at about US$4,500...could probably snatch it up for about US$4,000 if I really pushed, but the don't have the power cable, and there is no way to test it...so it just sits there.
Old 16th July 2005
  #14
hey dobby12,

if you can, find a Gefell UM57 that's been refurbished. i have a couple that have been refurbished and sometimes they are the mic of choice over my M269's, U47 and C12.
just an opinion.
Old 16th July 2005
  #15
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublehelix
What is a good price on a "good condition" 60's-era U67?

The local GC has had one in the case for a while at about US$4,500...could probably snatch it up for about US$4,000 if I really pushed, but the don't have the power cable, and there is no way to test it...so it just sits there.
I would get a power cable that would work for it, go in there with $2k cash, and if it sounds good, they might just be stupid enough to sell it for that much.
Old 16th July 2005
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony666
Does Gefell offer something like an U67?
...may be this thread could help.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&highlight=u67

andreas
Old 16th July 2005
  #17
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
...may be this thread could help.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&highlight=u67

andreas
BTW, I have a Beyer Dynamic MC740 for sale here- https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=37420
Old 16th July 2005
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublehelix
What is a good price on a "good condition" 60's-era U67?

The local GC has had one in the case for a while at about US$4,500...could probably snatch it up for about US$4,000 if I really pushed, but the don't have the power cable, and there is no way to test it...so it just sits there.
...I recommend you never to buy an U67 without testing, NEVER! If the dealer is unable to organize a cabel... something is damn wrong. 4K is to much IMO for a 40 years old scrap heap. Or as my wife always say "Don't try to get it cheap that way, it will be expensive."

I think 4K is the realistic market price for an U67 in good conditions.
The M269 (upps.. it's an M not an U ) goes for around 300-400 less (at least here in Germany). But keep in mind: when your AC701 tube will be broken, than you have to pay 300-400 heh(I think that's the current market price at the moment).

Good luck

Andreas
Old 16th July 2005
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks
I more or less grew up in studios. I was always singing through 67s and 87s, and to this day, even though the U67 I believe is a better overall mic, there is still some kind of quaility...I don't know what to call it....something in the transient response probably related to the excellent capsules, that I hear in the Neumanns. I really love it. It's a fast, sensitivity that I haven't heard in any other mic.
...one cause of difference in quality between the mics of that Neumann era and modern mics is their history of orgins:

Today, if a company is designing a mic, they'll have to look at the market. Where to place their product, what are the needs of their potentially costumers. Which image, marketing strategy, RENTABILITY... bla, bla, bla... so the first point isn't always to build the very best product sonically (which I understand) but that of course doesn't mean that there will be no more good mics!

In the past the industry is knocking on Neumann's (and other companies) door and tell them what they want, in which quality range (only the very best... see IRT Book) which sound character... If they couldn't hold the standarts, they kicked their product out (that's what the broadcast industry did with the U67, because the found it too noise)... and looking at the big ordering rates, the companies have to give their very best to design their products.

Andreas
Old 16th July 2005
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
jacobq's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks
I more or less grew up in studios. I was always singing through 67s and 87s, and to this day, even though the U67 I believe is a better overall mic, there is still some kind of quaility...I don't know what to call it....something in the transient response probably related to the excellent capsules, that I hear in the Neumanns. I really love it. It's a fast, sensitivity that I haven't heard in any other mic. You can't go to wrong with an 87, and what's really nice is that if you want to spend another 1500 or so someday, you can send it to Klaus Heyne and get a world class mic back. His 87 mods are pretty unreal.

TH
What were the improvements that you noticed in the modded U87? I am considering it on a new U87ai.
Thanks.
Old 17th July 2005
  #21
Gear Nut
 

I have an U67 and two MC740's. I love both mics, but the MC740 has much more high end than the U67. The 67 is more mid heavy. Similiar transient response, but different sound.
Old 17th July 2005
  #22
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
... If they couldn't hold the standarts, they kicked their product out (that's what the broadcast industry did with the U67, because the found it too noise)...
I'm sure the fact that all of their consoles had power supplies and directional pattern switches for M-49s had a lot more to do with ordering the M-269 than the noise level of the U67s!
Old 17th July 2005
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

kind of related

Isn't the Soundelux U99 offered as an emulation of the U67? Has anyone had the two mics side by side for comparison?
Old 18th July 2005
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson
I'm sure the fact that all of their consoles had power supplies and directional pattern switches for M-49s had a lot more to do with ordering the M-269 than the noise level of the U67s!
Hi Bob, I've got different informations but it makes absolutely sense what you wrote. It's true, their consoles had power supplies and directional pattern switches, the unit were called N52a, I have two of them, they have the same standart cassette size as for example the V72 ....you have a very preceptive mind... :-)

Andreas
Old 18th July 2005
  #25
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jjblair's Avatar
First off, I'm just not a U87 fan. It's not a bad mic. There are just so many mics that do what it does, but better and cheaper. I'll take any version of the 414 over a U87, particularly an EB.

The U67 is what I would consider a dark mic, especially when compared to the U47, UM57 or even more especially, any CK12 based tube mic. The K67 however is actually quite a bright capsule. The U67 circuit has been modified with a negative feedback circuit to shelf off the highs. This circuit can be bypassed and you wind up with an extraordinary mic for vocals. This extra brightness might make the mic less suitable for some of the other purposes for which is is extremely well suited, however. I think that darker mics like that respond well to EQing in the highs. If you want a really good at everything mic, get the U67.

There are even some good ones on eBay. I've had terrific luck with that, and if you are concenred about not liking it, just make sure you buy it for a price that you can rid rid of it right away for.
Old 18th July 2005
  #26
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

A stock 67 without using a windscreen and with just a touch of high frequency eq. to taste is very very hard to equal for vocals. Brighter mikes (and modded 67s) can sound better flat but they can't be eq'd to fit into a mix the way a stock U67 can. Most other condensers are also useless for vocals without a pop screen.
Old 18th July 2005
  #27
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson
A stock 67 without using a windscreen and with just a touch of high frequency eq. to taste is very very hard to equal for vocals. Brighter mikes (and modded 67s) can sound better flat but they can't be eq'd to fit into a mix the way a stock U67 can. Most other condensers are also useless for vocals without a pop screen.

So true. The mic tends to sound a bit dark when just speaking through it, but as Bob says, a little EQ and the sound of a thousand hit records is in the room.

TH
Old 18th July 2005
  #28
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair
First off, I'm just not a U87 fan. It's not a bad mic. There are just so many mics that do what it does, but better and cheaper. I'll take any version of the 414 over a U87, particularly an EB.
I like 414s too, but what do they have to do with the sound of a U87ai? I don't find anything doing what an 87 does but an 87. Whether one likes that or not is a different subject...

TH
Old 18th July 2005
  #29
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublehelix
What is a good price on a "good condition" 60's-era U67?

The local GC has had one in the case for a while at about US$4,500...could probably snatch it up for about US$4,000 if I really pushed, but the don't have the power cable, and there is no way to test it...so it just sits there.
For that price a mic box, all cables and a power supply should be included. The mic should also be in great shape or it is way over priced.
Old 18th July 2005
  #30
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Klaus's Avatar
 

How to avoid getting burned on a mic purchase

Quote:
..I recommend you never to buy an U67 without testing, NEVER! If the dealer is unable to organize a cabel... something is damn wrong. 4K is to much IMO for a 40 years old scrap heap...
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...50ec125e3c53b2

Best regards,
Klaus Heyne
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