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At Last: Nicerizer 16 vs. ITB (aif's & mp3's)
Old 13th July 2005
  #31
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
ok, after adjusting the RMS level difference it still sounds the same to me, I prefer number one, it just sounds more alive and there is a great distinction between the signals that makes them better audible without blurring into one piece of less-easy-to-identify sound. the difference is small, I wonder if it were twice as big when using all 16 separate inputs.

so let us know soon which is which!

my guess is still: nicerizer #1 (and I like it!)

Rock on!
Pat
Old 13th July 2005
  #32
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge
I havent gotten the Aiff's to download properly yet.
My DSL is acting wack tonight.
just heard the MP3's on little speakers...
1st impressions:
#1.... more musical, more 3-D,warmer.. especially in the end guitar/rhodes bit.
#2 ....sounds a tad brighter ..more 2-D/flatter

my guess would be the N-16 is the #1 mix.which to my ears sounded more like a record.
but i have to hear these AIFF's through some good speakers as well for more critical listening.

agreed.
I have only listened on apple speakers, but RB said it how I heard it.
Old 13th July 2005
  #33
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kosi's Avatar
Mix 1 has the smoother, better gel sound, it's a little bit unsharp, I like that that.
Mix 2 is a bitsy grainier to my ears, smaller, lacking the gel of 1.
Too much overall compression on both for my taste. Do you have the API on Loud ?

I'd say: 1 Nicerizer, 2 ITB

But the difference is very small, on a regular day by day base, I guess, I wouldn't mind, wether it's 1 or 2, it's more a matter of taste.
and that makes me think again, wether I should spend 2300 pounds or not....
or buy a "cheap" folcrom ?
or a used d2b ?
or keep my soundcraft ?
or buy some new monitors to hear the differences better ?
or some bad ones ? (for the same reason)
Old 13th July 2005
  #34
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wallace's Avatar
 

My guess is that #1 is ITB and #2 is the Nicerizer. At least #2 seems like it has more air and is less 2-D and flat.
Old 13th July 2005
  #35
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Listened again on my S3-A's.


If #2 is the Nicerizer, then yours is broken.

Just to get past technical considerations, #1 does a better job of taking me along on a journey. I'm more easily distracted when listening to #2.


I too would like to hear these without or with less compression.

Also, which one did you "mix into"? Personally, I would have pushed a bit more high end eq into #1.

-R
Old 13th July 2005
  #36
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Tetness's Avatar
Suspense is killing me. Send me a PM and let me know before I explode
Old 14th July 2005
  #37
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RoundBadge's Avatar
I strongly urge anyone who hasn't done this...
Listen to the AIFF's A/B'd back and forth W/ good converters and on a good pair of headphones...
...especially the middle section and endings..Then tell me which one is more 3-D.
stike
Old 14th July 2005
  #38
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RoundBadge's Avatar
I'm using all 16 inputs ..
I'll see if the artists I'm working with right now wouldn't mind posting some short instrumental clips ITB/OTB for more comparisons..
Old 14th July 2005
  #39
Gear Nut
 
music's Avatar
 

1. ITB
2. Nicerizer

2 sounds to me a bit wider.
1 sounds a bit clearer.
Old 14th July 2005
  #40
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

a poll would be nice to easily keep count of the voting.... but its funny seeing the remarks as they totally contridict each other.... depending on who is listening, which tells me that it doesnt matter at all.

im actually more interested in hearing the tune than A vs B from the comments. thats the part that MATTERS.

but this laptop wouldnt do it justice so i shal wait until i can hear it on my monitors.
Old 14th July 2005
  #41
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thermos's Avatar
Yeah, it really doesn't matter at all. Its fun though. I still like 1 more, it has more weight.
Old 14th July 2005
  #42
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RoundBadge's Avatar
this IS getting pretty funny ..
but yeah..FWITW I listened again today, and i still dig #1 more.
Old 14th July 2005
  #43
Gear Addict
 

#1 Nicelizer
#2 ITB

My impression on Laptop speakers...
Old 14th July 2005
  #44
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OK, now I checked out the .aifs (and not just the mp3), and mix no. two is still my favourite. The differences is subtle, but things like stereo imaging sounds cooler on #2. Overall a more pleasing mix.

Nicer.

So it got to be #2 that is the Nicerizer mix, otherwise this product doesn't live up to it's name heh

And yes I use ITB summing atm.
Old 14th July 2005
  #45
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toolskid's Avatar
 

hows about some kind of forfeit for those who are wrong heh
Old 14th July 2005
  #46
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u b k's Avatar
 

alright ya scurvy dogs, i'll make you stew no longer.

first, let me say how much i appreciate everyone who contributed on this thread... it takes balls to declare a position in a forum where you respect the opinions of others. right or wrong, you know what you like and there's no arguing that. well, then again, people still argue that too i suppose.

the nicerizer is............ numero uno.

here's my take, for what it's worth. i mixed into the nicerizer, and when i did the itb version, i was really struck by what was lost in that process, things that mattered to me very much as an artist AND as an engineer.

first, i'm surprised how few people commented on the dramatic imaging collapse with ITB. listen to the width of the pads in the intro, or the panning of the guitars and rhodes in the outro. the ITB soundfield lost a great deal of the beautiful spread that the nicerizer produces. what shocked me was that even with only two or three tracks going, such as in the intro or outro, this was still true. the digital summing killed it.

second, the nicerizer has such a gorgeous depth of field. i don't know about y'all, but in my room, the nicerizer mix not only extends way behind the monitors, there are moments when the music seems to swirl around the back of my head. there is nothing even remotely like that going on ITB, not to my ears at least. and the effects are always there, tucked away in the nicerizer, whereas they constantly come and go itb, and seem to sit more on top than behind.

lastly, and i recognize this one is intensely personal: it comes down to vibe for me. mix #1 feels lush, it evokes and reinforces the mood of the song, which is the whole point of this game for me. what people describe as "blurry" highs, i hear as "sweet." when people speak of "less clarity" i hear "more mystery". the spiky transient "accuracy" and naked 2-D soundscape of digital holds no romance for me, no charm.

the itb mix is, to me, like viewing a renaissance masterpiece under flourescent lights. if everything in a mix is clear, there is nothing for the imagination to feed on, and i feel like a spectator at a canned event where all chance and randomness is stripped from the equation. this is why i so adore records from the 60's and 70's, they had an elusive quality that slowly unfolds over years of listening. i STILL hear things buried in old yes albums, old floyd and zep and beatles, even after 10000 plays. i can't imagine someone telling those guys their transformer push is killing the transient accuracy! so many people pine for the vibe and character of those recordings, but who has the courage to let the notes and elements in their mixes fall behind the veil? who trusts that the art will engage the listener without having to hit them over the head with every little detail?

so that's my story and i'm stickin' to it. i adore this box and what it does for my music; thanks for indulging me, and thanks for all the kind words about my song.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 14th July 2005
  #47
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wow gregoire... that's a statement after my fancy... congrats to your new nicerizer and welcom to the analog world ...

Andreas
Old 14th July 2005
  #48
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dim light's Avatar
 

U b i k - thumbsup
Old 14th July 2005
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Gregoire,
I've had my N16 for a couple of weeks now...(serial # 0004)

I listened to your 2 mixes (aif's) and it was obvious to me which was which as this box has it's own sound and musicality...once you've become familiar with it, you know it...

Besides a wonderful musical sensibility you have an equal artistry with words...

Larry
Old 14th July 2005
  #50
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
ha, feels great to be right! I totally agree with ubik in his explanation why he likes the nicerizer mix better, I totally feel the same about the entire "vibe" thing. what I did is listening like this: I imagined the song was my production and I am playing it to someone who never heard it before in my studio. when playing back mix2 I heard all the slightly unpleasant things I normally hear in that situation. when switching to mix1 those things were gone and it suddenly "felt" like a more interesting, vibey and emotional experience.

the difference is not night and day however, and I will have to decide in the next couple of weeks if I have enough money to really keep my own nicerizer16....

now what I wanna know most is how much of that vibe will I be able to achieve through simple mix buss processing with tools like my fatso, spl charisma and sony inflator...

Rock on!
Pat
Old 14th July 2005
  #51
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Phil Buckle's Avatar
 

Ubik, I wonder if you are familiar with the production of Guy Sigsworth?
He programed for Bjerk and Madonna and Seal to name a few.
You might enjoy his grooves and sound design.
For starters try his duo "Frou Frou"
They had a track on the "Garden State" soundtrack called "Let Go"
Incredible organic, electronic, synth and classic mixture with feeling. Check out the bass approach and mix.
Enjoyed your track.
Old 14th July 2005
  #52
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JonathanAniston's Avatar
 

Ubik, you do indeed have a lovely way with words there... I know exactly what you mean about uncovering detail (in many ways I guess it's kind of lost detail from the transformers).

I preferred the nicerizer mix for all the reasons you gave - it's just that vibe thing. It's simply more earthy somehow, and although some transients may be squashed, I personally like that kind of fatness.

Definitely want to check this box out, and I'd be interested to hear how different it sounds at different levels...
Old 14th July 2005
  #53
Gear Maniac
 

Jonathan,
You're in London...Phoenix Audio is right near you (relatively speaking of course)..

Go to their website, lookup their phone number and give Shaun a ring..

http://www.phoenixaudio.net/

He's a great guy and I'm sure you'll enjoy talking to him about the N16.

Larry
Old 14th July 2005
  #54
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blaugruen7's Avatar
ubik,
many thanks for this listening lesson!
am a lowest end gearslut und listening on my akg240s headphones did not
show me big differences.
i will listen back from time to time and will lern.
many thanks!
Old 14th July 2005
  #55
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Nicely done in all ways Ubik.

One thing people won't get from just lisening to these is how much fun, how engaging, it is to be working on tracks going through the Nicerizer. At least that has been my experience this week composing and programming MIDI tracks. (I'm withholding posting my opinions until I have a chance to mess with some real tracks.)

BTW, Shaun says that it's not the outut transformer which is responsible for the lush, "valve-like" sound.

-R
Old 14th July 2005
  #56
Registered User
 

I think it would have been nice to have no API in there. One of the big pro's for ITB is no DA conversion.
Old 14th July 2005
  #57
Gear Head
 

I think the main reason I didn't like the mix#1 as much is because its got more compression going. Given you said you treid to mach GR on the API between the mixes. That says alot, the transformers on the nice does alot in terms of dynamics, so overall if you matched the GR you had more overall compression going in #1. Seems the nice kinda does things like a tape machine in terms color and saturation. As said before I would like to hear it without the API, in terms of summing thats all I wan't to evaluate. That said thanks for the post.
Old 14th July 2005
  #58
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

if you are hearing things swirl around the back of your head... thats phase shifting happening.
Old 14th July 2005
  #59
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gsharp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
if you are hearing things swirl around the back of your head... thats phase shifting happening.
exactly. perhaps we should say the N16 mix got wider rather than the PT mix collapsed.
Old 14th July 2005
  #60
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

mixing ITB i do a lot of phase shifting on things i WANT to do that.... but there are several posts here on this thread of people who though the 2nd mix sounded wider.
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