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35k for a recording studio. what do you get ???
Old 8th March 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

35k for a recording studio. what do you get ???

i know there has been a ton of these, but each one is a bit different... So i have an opportunity to rent a vacant studio and lined up for a 35k loan. I have little gear, but this building is in use during the day and i get it at night pretty cheap. As far as i know it has a treated control room and live room. But i haven't seen it in a couple years so i am going to go down and take some pics to see what you guys think! ...

Luckily i have another source of income (online poker), so really my only goal is to be sustainable and make great records. I want to make the records we all dream of. Not necessarily whats on the radio but those big round warm sounding records. spoon, dandy warhols, oasis new album ... that kinda stuff, more raw... I know that really means nothing and lots of gear can achieve lots of different things and nothing makes up for a good room and most importantly talent and chops!

that being said, I am curious on where you guys would start, if say that 35k budget was down to 30k for gear and ill assume 5k for further treatment on the room (this is willing to change when i go take a better look at the studio) ...

I am thinking of running a daw , but I want to either A) record to tape and edit on the daw, or try and use tape emulation like an anamod ats-1 to try and achieve some of that sonic pleasurties tape has to offer. (thoughts on this ??) ... I saw this one peiece of gear called the smack or grack, i forgot. But it helps you record to tape will dumping it on the daw...

for the daw front end i was thinking a prism sound orpheus ... I don't know where to go for mics and pre amps and outboard gear... looking for any suggestions.

I have a couple of ideas but am curious to see yours!
cheers
sorry mods move this to right forum if its in the wrong one!
Old 8th March 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Especially in these times, $35k will get you into a really cool set up, but I would recommend that you don't do it.

I would suggest that you put together something for about $5k and start doing stuff and get a feel for what tools would help your taste and work flow as you go. Just based on your post it does not seem like you are at a place where it would make sense to make a big investment.

BTW $5k can actually get you into a set up that you could do some cool work with.
Old 8th March 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
i know there has been a ton of these, but each one is a bit different...
So u really think u'll get an accurate answer? bite my head off but I think these really don't help unless u have ur list & mind made up as to what u want; u do realize this is Gearslutz rite? the site with about 70,000 gear addicts, all having there own likes & dislikes meaning thatz what ur gonna get...FROM EVERYBODY THAT GIVES U AN ANSWER... How is that helpful no more than being cinfusing as hellz

I'm really smiling as I type this so don't cop it up as me being a smart a$$; I just be 4real 4real...
Old 8th March 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Susceptor's Avatar
 

My suggestion would be to read THIS thread and see what is considered minimum; I say this because the minimum may sometimes mean the most general stuff, not some specific gear with a specific target whatsoever.
Old 8th March 2009
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Especially in these times, $35k will get you into a really cool set up, but I would recommend that you don't do it.

I would suggest that you put together something for about $5k and start doing stuff and get a feel for what tools would help your taste and work flow as you go. Just based on your post it does not seem like you are at a place where it would make sense to make a big investment.

BTW $5k can actually get you into a set up that you could do some cool work with.
.

+1

..and with the $30k you can buy bloodied GE and BH [B] stock, and catch them on the rebound.


...other than that - buy ONE Fairchild compressor...(if you're lucky) ...hey, this IS high end...

.
Old 8th March 2009
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYBEEETSSS View Post
So u really think u'll get an accurate answer? bite my head off but I think these really don't help unless u have ur list & mind made up as to what u want; u do realize this is Gearslutz rite? the site with about 70,000 gear addicts, all having there own likes & dislikes meaning thatz what ur gonna get...FROM EVERYBODY THAT GIVES U AN ANSWER... How is that helpful no more than being cinfusing as hellz

I'm really smiling as I type this so don't cop it up as me being a smart a$$; I just be 4real 4real...
thats cool, and pretty much what i was looking for ... a bunch of different opinions on what to do with 30-35k to put into a recording studio. so yeah it makes sense to me ? haha

ps. there is no accurate answer anyways. there is just alot of different opinions. we are dealing with things that create taste :P theres no perfect or correct route.

thanks for the reply !
Old 8th March 2009
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Especially in these times, $35k will get you into a really cool set up, but I would recommend that you don't do it.

I would suggest that you put together something for about $5k and start doing stuff and get a feel for what tools would help your taste and work flow as you go. Just based on your post it does not seem like you are at a place where it would make sense to make a big investment.

BTW $5k can actually get you into a set up that you could do some cool work with.
I apprecaite the reply. I have been doing this, i have been working with a digi002 recording my band and such, but i want to take it to the next level. I don't really post much on hear but read it about 2-3 hrs a day while playing poker.

I think i am in a unique situation given that i won't be relying on the studio as my sole source (or any source) of income to start. As long as i can cover my over head i'm basically just looking to be sustainable to learn more on my own and record alot of albums to bands high quality cheaply... Considering what alot of young people my age waste on recording school ... +20k ?!?! i think this is a much more thought out route. If i invest in enough good gear that can hold its value, all teh better!

lol iE ... - GTQ2 as an investment?.

its a pretty soild plan imo... but i understand your walk before your run reasoning. thanks for the reply!

ps. im not a total recording rookie, i have interned at studios, recorded albums, read everything i can get my hands on, spent lots of hours on the internet reading and reading. I just want to show my humilty and openness to learn.
Old 8th March 2009
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
.

+1

..and with the $30k you can buy bloodied GE and BH [b] stock, and catch them on the rebound.


...other than that - buy ONE Fairchild compressor...(if you're lucky) ...hey, this IS high end...

.

its actually not a bad idea, the fairchild would hold its value lol ... plus id be the badass that runs a fairchild into an mbox lol
Old 8th March 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
thats cool, and pretty much what i was looking for ... a bunch of different opinions on what to do with 30-35k to put into a recording studio. so yeah it makes sense to me ? haha

thanks for the reply !
No prob bud-deee
Old 8th March 2009
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
My suggestion would be to read THIS thread and see what is considered minimum; I say this because the minimum may sometimes mean the most general stuff, not some specific gear with a specific target whatsoever.
thanks alot ! i missed that thread, cheers...
Old 8th March 2009
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
its actually not a bad idea, the fairchild would hold its value lol ... plus id be the badass that runs a fairchild into an mbox lol
.

haha....yeah......you might have better results running the m-box into the fairchild....lol

.
Old 8th March 2009
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Marineville's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
Luckily i have another source of income (online poker) ...


What you play online poker or you own an online poker site?
Old 8th March 2009
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marineville View Post


What you play online poker or you own an online poker site?
play


comeon guys, you got 35k to spend on a studio you want, what do you do !?! :P
Old 8th March 2009
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

orpheus users... is it possible to have 16 tracks recording simultaneously using the ADAT on the orpheus while using the anolog inputs as well??
Old 8th March 2009
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
Kore's Avatar
 

Very cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by 529 Pro Audio View Post
In fact, I just finished an entire record (Ian Richardson Session) using only an Orpheus, an API 3124+, an Elysia Mpressor 2 ch. Comp, a Pearlman TM-1 and TM-2, and a couple of dynamics.
Awesome looking session, great photos. Your set up is the perfect example of how it takes a lot less gear than people think is necessary to make great records. Very well choosen selection of kit.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
Old 8th March 2009
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 529 Pro Audio View Post
As an Orpheus owner, I believe that two Orpheus units daisy chained via Firewire will do 16 channels of A/D at a maximum sample rate of 96k. However, if you want to expand the Orhpeus' capabilities by adding another 8 channel converter, e.g. Rosetta 800, and run through the Orpheus ADAT, then you are not going to be happy. Maximum sample rate on the ADAT input is 44.1k for 8 channels or 96k for 4 channels, plus, and this is key...there is no hardware monitoring of the ADAT input. I have confirmed with Prism that this is a hardware limitation that will not be rectified in future firmware updates. This is the one and only one negative thing I have to say about the Orpheus. On the other hand, if you want to add another two channels via SPDIF, then you can do direct monitoring. I am not certain about direct monitoring of two Orpheus units, but presumably you can still direct monitor all 16 ch. analog inputs.

Getting back to your original post, I agree that now is a perfect time to be buying gear for a studio (while the whole world is selling it off), but that you should accumulate slowly and judiciously as you figure out your needs. After doing this for about 8 years, I am finally working out what works for me. I have tried just about everything including moving an 800 lb. Studer A80 24 track down a flight of stairs to my studio and back up again when I sold it. Tonally, tape has no equivalent in terms of sonic depth, but it is so time consuming for me that recording became about recording and not the music. Ultimately, I learned that I prefer a very slick and fast workflow that allows the apparatus of recording to disappear so I can focus on the sound and arrangement. In fact, I just finished an entire record (Ian Richardson Session) using only an Orpheus, an API 3124+, an Elysia Mpressor 2 ch. Comp, a Pearlman TM-1 and TM-2, and a couple of dynamics.

As a massive Spoon fan, I have a fairly good indication of the tones you will be seeking. You can't go wrong with API and the Aurora Audio line is the best bang for the buck in the Neve-esque camp. Also, the Spoon Studio, Public Hi-Fi has their entire gear list up on myspace here: MySpace.com - Public Hi-Fi - 102 - Male - AUSTIN, Texas - www.myspace.com/publichifi

Bottom line, take your time and focus on your workflow preferences and what type of gear you need (e.g. 16 channels ad/da, 8 channels pre, 4 channels eq, 4 channels dynamics, 16 ch. tape machine, etc...then start looking at your options in each category. The classic designs like API and Neve are classic for a reason, but don't forget the newer designers like Chandler, Pearlman, Shadow Hills, etc...

Best,
Chris

thanks alot for the informative reply, esp the workflow part...Your tunes are a big reason i have been so infatuated with the Orpheus. There is a certain sound to your recordings that i really really like haha... Of course that is not just soley the orpheus, but a combination of all the other gear your using with it and most importantly your talents and techniques... I love when the drums kick in down in the valley. Ive been listening to these songs for a while, are there new ones your speaking of?

I see what you mean with the limitations of monitoring with the orpheus, but i was just looking to record 16 simulationsly ... so i could have 8 scratch tracks comming off teh adat and 8 keeper tracks comming off anaolog inputs ... would that work? I would just get a really cheap adat just for the sake of getting the live off the floor scratch tracks when doing the bed tracks or w/e.
cheers!
Old 8th March 2009
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

also, there was another song on your myspace some months ago, it was the top one. very beatlesq i really liked. The name escapes me, do you have somewhere i can hear ? heh
Old 8th March 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
 
gear is cool's Avatar
your day gig is gambling online?

if so investing 30k into gear doesnt seem so nutty compared to that...
Old 8th March 2009
  #19
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post

I think i am in a unique situation given that i won't be relying on the studio as my sole source (or any source) of income to start. .
Just FYI, the reason for replying the way I did was not a matter of whether or not it would be a good investment, but more to do with the fact that your original post seemed to imply that you were not really sure what kind of tools would best serve your needs. $35k can get you a really cool set up if you know exactly what you want or need. But the $35k studio that would be perfect for me, might be a total bummer to some one else.
Old 8th March 2009
  #20
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antoniosolo's Avatar
 

35K

I can Imagine that wanting a place to record is such a strong obsession so here I submit my somewhat educated list:

1 API's new mixing board 23K
1 API 3124 Mic Pre 3K
1 AMS NEVE 1073 dpa 3K
1 pair Dynaudio's 1k
1 Telefunken USA AK47 1.5K
1 Apple G5 2K
1 Soundproofing .5K
2 Sm57 .2K
1 Firewire interface 8in .6K
1 Midi Controller .2K
2 LA4A Silverface 1K

I know it sounds goofy, but I bet I could hang with almost anyone with this package. It doesn't take much more than a decent listening environment and some top-notch capturing devices....and good engineering!
Old 8th March 2009
  #21
$30k?

Macbook Pro
Logic Studio
BFD2
Prism Orpheus converter
API 2500 compressor
Dangerous D Box
Genelec Triple play
Shadowhills GAMA & Avedis e27 inside an Avedis R52

--is one way you could go...
Old 8th March 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 

Well Shaker, Here we go; Getcha' Popcorn ready

Old 8th March 2009
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear is cool View Post
your day gig is gambling online?

if so investing 30k into gear doesnt seem so nutty compared to that...
one of my friends taught himself poker with the crazy idea of "winning" enough money to put himself through drama school...he ended up winning the european poker championships (or something like that - £200k of prize money), now commentates on a poker channel, and yes makes a lot of money gambling online....oh and he was poker consultant on "casino royale"!

If you're good at it...why not?!
Old 8th March 2009
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Just FYI, the reason for replying the way I did was not a matter of whether or not it would be a good investment, but more to do with the fact that your original post seemed to imply that you were not really sure what kind of tools would best serve your needs. $35k can get you a really cool set up if you know exactly what you want or need. But the $35k studio that would be perfect for me, might be a total bummer to some one else.
.

well sedd

.
Old 8th March 2009
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

agreed, good advice... i have an idea of what i want to buy and what i want to achieve with it. I was just looking for some other peoples opinions... i guess what im trying to say is , what would you buy... given the description of the type of music i am looking too record...
cheers guys!

and yes i do play poker online, it works out well .. that pretty crazy about your buddy winning that live tourny. I am an online player 8 tabling cash games usually but i have had some 5fig tourny scores, nothing crazy like that tho!
Old 8th March 2009
  #26
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYBEEETSSS View Post
So u really think u'll get an accurate answer? bite my head off but I think these really don't help unless u have ur list & mind made up as to what u want; u do realize this is Gearslutz rite? the site with about 70,000 gear addicts, all having there own likes & dislikes meaning thatz what ur gonna get...FROM EVERYBODY THAT GIVES U AN ANSWER... How is that helpful no more than being cinfusing as hellz

I'm really smiling as I type this so don't cop it up as me being a smart a$$; I just be 4real 4real...
For god's sake man, get your head out fo your arse.

If you dont agree with the question, then dont provide an answer. He's asking a question.

It's the one thing that really bugs me about Gearslutz sometimes, people like you who feel the need to lecture.
Old 8th March 2009
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
I saw this one peiece of gear called the smack or grack, i forgot. But it helps you record to tape will dumping it on the daw...
I'm using my gearslutz decoder ring to guess that you're talking about a very advanced product called CLASP.
Old 8th March 2009
  #28
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
For god's sake man, get your head out fo your arse.

If you dont agree with the question, then dont provide an answer. He's asking a question.

It's the one thing that really bugs me about Gearslutz sometimes, people like you who feel the need to lecture.
LOL; Dude who in the Blue hell are u; Read the whole thread as well as others before u come in tryin to regulate a thread; won't entertain u any further...
Old 8th March 2009
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

Dude,
If you have 35K call Sweetwater music and they will give you some killer options and ship it for free with no sales tax. Yes you can get alot of suggestions on Gearslutz and thats cool but why not contact people who actually sell gear and have them put together a package for you. There are sellers like Guitar Center that will probably beat Sweetwaters price by atleast 10% but if you need advice after your purchase Sweetwater will be your best bet. Also you have a full month to try your new rig with the option of sending it back with no worry. If I had 35K I would be on the phone yesterday.
Old 8th March 2009
  #30
Gear Addict
 
RMJAZZ's Avatar
 

My 2 cents...

Since you can only use the space at night, you should plan on a 100% mobile rig. Don't keep your gear there for others to touch it, breath on it, or worse...

35K is a great place to start, but if you are opening up to the public, you have to be ready for a lot of different set ups...so 35k is just a start for me. I have almost 40k in gear now, and I still find things I feel I "need"....

This is simply my opinion, I'm sure plenty will disagree...but here it is;
***Some of these prices figure on you talking people down a bit, but these are real world prices I have recently seen.

Keep your 002 system

Mac Book Pro $2500
Additional plug ins $1500(use ebay and other merchants to get killer prices)
RME ADI 8 $1900
(1) API 3124 $2000 (used)
(1) API A2d $1900
(4) Hardy M1 $2900 (it is good to have some clean pre's if you are opening up to the public)
(2) chandler LTD-1 $4800
Avalon U5 $550


(2) KSM 44 $1100 (you can get these new for this price if you shop and haggle)
RE20 $450
(4) Beta 98 $800
(2) KM184 $1000 (used)
(2) Audix i5 $150
(2) SM57 $150
(2) Royer R121 $2400
(3) Senn 421 $900
Neumann M147 (used) $1200- lots of people sleep on this mic b/c it is really overpriced new, but it is nice on a lot of male vocals. Incredible through the LTD1

Brauner VM1 $5800

(2) Distressors w/ Brit ($2000 used)

Cables/Mic stands/pop screens etc.... $1,200

Get some used monitors, I'm not sure if you have a decent pair already....

**Do yourself a favor and get a few really high quality mic stands. Then get a bunch around the 50-60 dollar range.

Make your own tube traps, or buy the original ones. you can make your own for about $60 each. You need them for the control room, and to put around musicians while tracking.

You should figure on a budget for power conditioners. I would strongly recommend one voltage regulator. Also put some road racks in the budget to transport your gear safely.

If you need to cut something out...don't. Just go used instead of new. Right now there are som many people getting out of this business it isn't funny dude. Make sure you have some serisou business lined up. Even if you only need to pay rent and a loan payment for gear.....you need serious work. Count up how many hours you need to book each week to pay your bills....and do a spread sheet of your bills and income form the studio. It is great that you wont need the studio to live on immediately. Just set yourself up properly and be very organized...and keep yourself eternally hungry for more clients. You CAN do ok if you run it like a real business and give customer service. But through all that, remmeber to have a great time.

In Music,
Rob
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