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Crystalphonic - Why did you replace your SSL with an Icon ?
Old 28th July 2005
  #211
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gsharp's Avatar
 

Its ms in the i/o setup, but you can enter samples down at the bottom of the mix window if you have the 'mix window shows delay compensation' checked in display. There's three values. the first one is current delay on that channel due to the plugs, the last one is the delay PT is adding to get that track to line up. The middle one is user adjustable.
Old 28th July 2005
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
was told there is ADC as far as the plugs are concerned, and the values of the 192s are applied to whatever interfaces are used. supposedly not that big a deal.

will be bringing some apogee units in to see for myself ASAP.
Roger Robindore head of Apogee Tech Support personally told me that ADC is not supported on the hardware inserts. ADC within the software as it relates to plugs still works, but Apogee apparently doesn't have a way for their interfaces to report their delay to PT, like a 192 does.
Old 28th July 2005
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsharp
Its ms in the i/o setup, but you can enter samples down at the bottom of the mix window if you have the 'mix window shows delay compensation' checked in display. There's three values. the first one is current delay on that channel due to the plugs, the last one is the delay PT is adding to get that track to line up. The middle one is user adjustable.

got it. but that needs to be done on a session by session basis, hardly "auto" delay comp, no?
Old 28th July 2005
  #214
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so what happens when u wanna patch in outboard gear, as an insert or a bus in PT like Kevin plans to do, that's either connected digitally or "ANALOG-LY" heh ? any ADC?

But with the apogee's connected to the 192's, there should still be ADC???



hxxp://www.digidesign.com/products/hd/systems/images/192Denlarge.jpg

http://apogeedigital.com/images/ad16x_rp_lg.jpg
http://apogeedigital.com/images/da16x_rp_lg.jpg

Quote:
192 Digital I/O
US List Price: $2,495
192 Digital I/O is a high-definition audio interface specifically designed to facilitate digital input from a variety of sources into the Pro Tools|HD environment. An alternative to the 192 and 96 I/Os, 192 Digital I/O features a wide range of digital I/O options, including up to 16 channels of AES/EBU, TDIF, and ADAT I/O, along with S/PDIF I/O.
Old 28th July 2005
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew
got it. but that needs to be done on a session by session basis, hardly "auto" delay comp, no?
Yup. Or on a track by track basis really. If you open a hardware insert you need to enter the latency in samples down there. You just need to figure out what the latency is one time and remember that number.
Old 29th July 2005
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsharp
Roger Robindore head of Apogee Tech Support personally told me that ADC is not supported on the hardware inserts. ADC within the software as it relates to plugs still works, but Apogee apparently doesn't have a way for their interfaces to report their delay to PT, like a 192 does.
i spoke to roger also - and what i gathered is that the 192 doesn't 'report it's delay to PT' as suggested here.

PT automatically adds a preset delay per 192 interface (the hardware delay is fixed - so once that's figured out, it's easy to add per interface - be it the 1st, 2nd, etc.). so PT adds the same amount of delay to any unit, be it digi or any other interface. the 16X, being faster than a 192 has to be delayed further. but it was roger's opinion that tens of samples would only be noticeable within a subgroup like drums - so long as subgroups are kept on different interfaces or if individual tracks are placed in different interfaces, the changes (in tens of samples) for these tracks would be negligible.

also, PT 'sees' one 16X unit as one 192, so 16 cannels vs. 8 channels - this has to be taken into consideration as well.

to summarize, ADC does work internally (w/plugs) regardless of the interface -- as to the delay applied to the interface, PT always 'compensates' per 192 specs., so one has to take that into acct. when adding delay to a 3rd party interface.

if someone knows any better please correct me.
Old 29th July 2005
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsharp
Yup. Or on a track by track basis really. If you open a hardware insert you need to enter the latency in samples down there. You just need to figure out what the latency is one time and remember that number.
also, the latency varies from interface to interface - so more interfaces = more delay.
Old 29th July 2005
  #218
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gsharp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
i spoke to roger also - and what i gathered is that the 192 doesn't 'report it's delay to PT' as suggested here.

PT automatically adds a preset delay per 192 interface (the hardware delay is fixed - so once that's figured out, it's easy to add per interface - be it the 1st, 2nd, etc.). so PT adds the same amount of delay to any unit, be it digi or a 3rd party interface. the 16X, being faster than a 192 has to be delayed further. but again, as i was told, tens of samples would only be noticeable within a subgroup like drums - so long as subgroups are kept on different interfaces or if individual tracks are placed in different interfaces, the changes (in tens of samples) for these tracks are negligible.

also, PT 'sees' one 16X unit as one 192, so 16 cannels vs. 8 channels - this has to be taken into consideration as well.

to summarize, ADC does work internally (w/plugs) regardless of the interface -- as to the delay applied to the interface, PT always 'compensates' per 192 specs., so one has to take that into acct. when adding delay to a 3rd party interface.

if someone knows any better please correct me.
thumbsup Cool info. Thanks for the clarification. Roger just said it was a software thing and I assumed it was something 'live' in the connection, but I'm sure you're right in that PT has the delay built in.
Old 29th July 2005
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsharp
thumbsup Cool info. Thanks for the clarification. Roger just said it was a software thing and I assumed it was something 'live' in the connection, but I'm sure you're right in that PT has the delay built in.
hope this helps. i was at a total loss til roger took the time to explain. i'm itchin' to take the 16X plunge so i've been doing some research. if anyone can add to this or correct me if i'm wrong, i'd appreciate it.

sorry for being a little OT.
Old 31st July 2005
  #220
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I'm really glad that I stumbled onto this thread. I got so many ideas for what direction I want to go in. I've been contemplating what route to go, and this is just what I needed. I have to say this is one of the more inspiring threads I've ever come across on a message board.
Old 5th August 2005
  #221
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Kev, when u got some pics, please show use the new look, if that cool with u? heh
Old 12th August 2005
  #222
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just wondering, with icon are there any analog sends?

(edit) should've searched before posting. no analog sends. sorry.
Old 30th December 2005
  #223
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No4PCs's Avatar
Audient

Hi friend, have you heard the Audient analog console sound?Im curious about.I did read audient is manufactured by the old DDA consoles owners.Did you hear about?
Peace.
Old 9th October 2006
  #224
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Just wondering if there's any updates from the Icon owners here.

I'm fortunate to be working out of a new ICON room in So Cal here in the next month, I'm very excited- spent a fair amount of time at AES with the ICOn, and can't wait to start mixing.....

the 7.2 updates, VCA faders and new automation features are amazing, and with the hybrid ( tons of outboard and summing if wanted) I'm looking forward to the fun being put back into mixing!

anyone else working on it these days?


cz
Old 9th October 2006
  #225
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Would'nt it be funny if Crystalphonic replaced their Icon/Pro Tools-HD system in 2 to 3 years with an SSL Duality/Apple Logic Pro/Apogee Symphony system.heh Also Symphony works with Digital Performer, Cubase, & Nuendo. Not just Logic Pro. The Duality works with Digital Performer, Cubase, & Nuendo too. This helps with expansion of a potential clientbase.

Threshold stike

P.S.:Crystalphonic is already 25% there. They were smart enough to get Apogee converters. Who knows they might take the plunge.
Old 9th October 2006
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
Would'nt it be funny if Crystalphonic replaced their Icon/Pro Tools-HD system in 2 to 3 years with an SSL Duality/Apple Logic Pro/Apogee Symphony system.heh

Threshold stike
It sure would be, but it's probably as likely as seeing pigs fly, they would have to double their investment, and that depends on whether the Duality sells, IMHO its at a very difficult price point. At the moment there are some very good analogue desks around for less money than Duality and I think its ability to control pro-tools isn't enough to swing it, well not at that price point. I know everyone is swarming all over it at the show, but do those people have the checkbooks to buy it? Only time will tell.

Regards to all


Roland
Old 12th October 2006
  #227
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Great read. Thanks for the candid shop talk about your beautiful studios.
Todd
Old 12th October 2006
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajonezzz View Post
Just wondering if there's any updates from the Icon owners here.



cz
I've had an ICON (D-Control) for about 6 months now, and yes it's a great way to mix. Custom faders are just awesome, and 7.2 brought a bunch of great features. The hybrid thing works well with reverbs, delays, and effects. I've had less success with parallel compression using outboard gear on the inserts. Mixing on the D-Control, I find myself getting finished in about half the time compared to SSL.
Old 12th October 2006
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKden View Post
I've had less success with parallel compression using outboard gear on the inserts.
why would that be?
Old 12th October 2006
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
why would that be?
Beats me. I had noticed that some parallel stuff sounded dull compared to using the same techniques on an analog desk. So when I did some testing, I found that there is an inherent phase issue when routing out of and back in to the 192 . I'm suprised more people don't notice. There is a small mention of this issue on the DUC here.
Old 12th October 2006
  #231
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKden View Post
Beats me. I had noticed that some parallel stuff sounded dull compared to using the same techniques on an analog desk. So when I did some testing, I found that there is an inherent phase issue when routing out of and back in to the 192 . I'm suprised more people don't notice. There is a small mention of this issue on the DUC here.
Push it up by one sample.

That works for me.
Old 13th October 2006
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Push it up by one sample.

That works for me.
It does sound different that way, no doubt.
Old 13th October 2006
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Push it up by one sample.

That works for me.
does this happen while using more than one 192, or also when only using one unit? when i get back to the TDM rig i'll have to check it out.

one sample is easy enough but if the 'phasey' crap the guy at the DUC mentioned doesn't go away, there's another good reason to go out to a summing box, which is what i've been doing anyway! thanks OKden and Thrill.
Old 14th October 2006
  #234
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Okden!

long time man- I'm stoked to hear your on a D- control.

I'd love to hear any specific comments as to work flow, using templates etc. Anything that might help us get up to speed would be awesome.

Are you hanging quite a bit of outboard gear on this rig btw? If so, please chime in on this thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...ht=icon+freeze


My buddy and I are basically hyping what we are calling " freeze track". A feature that would allow, in one fell swoop, to commit all tracks with analog inserts to a track hidden in the tracks playlist.
A lot of us are of course working this way now - at the end of a session, if we need to take the session to a rig with unknown outboard ( or non existent as in my home room) we need to commit the outboard processing/fx to tracks. The idea would be to have a pref,and perhaps a button on tracks with analog inserts being used that would be easily armed and printed in one pass before wrapping up. I was hoping at that point that those commited tracks could then be "toggled" foward in the play list,and those inserts "grayed out", but easily reactivated if a later recall was necessary. So basically, I come home and pull the session up, and there are all my tracks with the burned fx/processing. Right now it takes SO long to bring up print tracks- assign and bus, run a pass etc.

i'm sure you more experienced cats could hone this alot further.... We ran it past the powers that be at Digi at AES,and they gave a good listen at least- I dunno how doable it is from a programmers POV, but I know a lot of folks would love to be able to do this, and it would make this whole hybrid thing even easier to jump into. Time is money!



Can you guys explain the problem with the outboard problems your experiencing, and your workaround?

thanks!


cz
Old 5th December 2006
  #235
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I really hate to chime in and not read much on the thread, but I wanna put this out there...

If you get a D-Control Icon, GET THE SERVICE WARRANTY!!! I am a student at Ball State University's Music Technology program and the school thought it wasn't neccesarry. Well, 2.5 years after installation one of our Icons died. All 32 faders and middle section are dead. Over the summer we had 32/64 faders Icon die, then just a few days ago, 16 more died. So we had two Icons, a 32 fader and a 64 fader. One is completely dead, and one is 3/5 dead (16 faders + control center part of console.) Talk about shady.

From my understanding, analog consoles need service done to them as well, so I dunno. Just my $0.02...

~trevor
Old 13th February 2009
  #236
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mobilemozart's Avatar
 

3,5 years later - where is the ICON?

I was just reading this whole thread, looked at

crystalphonic recording studio

and couldn't find an ICON??

Nice classic SSL E-Series in Studio A though!!
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