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Crystalphonic - Why did you replace your SSL with an Icon ?
Old 23rd July 2005
  #121
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
He did say he is doing most of the mixes himself.

Also the new ProTools "clone"generation of engineers will probably have to learn it and master it since a lot of the purchasers will be the mega producers with their elaborate home studios.

Once these producers have to migrate to another studio to track live instruments they will integrate the icon as part of the package.
Since the boom of home recording, most musicians believe they are engineers, and have mastered Protools. The 3 things that seperates them from a select few is equipment, skill and credits.

What is the advantage of tracking drums on a Icon rather than a Neve? Unless it is considerably less $$$.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 23rd July 2005
  #122
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
I would say yes and no.

the yes: Great point though about a mixer doing nothing but controlling PT.. thumbsup . Maybe there should adrop in the rates? Icon is cheaper than any new large format board and wouldnt it also but cost effective whenit comes to maintenance and power consumption? and If they're gonna be using only plugins at mix time.

the no: We can't forget about having the outboard gear for recording and mixdown. ??? etc,etc
I couldn't agree with you more, outboard gear makes all the difference in tracking and mixing. One more reason why the Icon makes no sense to me. The Icon Studios better have a great drum room, some Neve and API sidecars, which don't come cheap.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 23rd July 2005
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
The Icon Studios better have a great drum room, some Neve and API sidecars, which don't come cheap.
i'd think if you afford a $90K controller, you'd also be able to afford several nice pres and good outboard.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #124
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
i'd think if you afford a $90K controller, you'd also be able to afford several nice pres and good outboard.
90k
My point exactly, why not just have the real thing. I would think most well known producers are not gonna request a Icon on their equipment list. Maybe a Neve. We are talking where the $$$ can be justified, if you are going to spend.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
My point exactly, why not just have the real thing.
'real thing' meaning an analog console? for some, the Icon may be just the 'real thing' they're looking for. for others it may not be...

i think these are exciting times.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #126
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
'real thing' meaning an analog console? for some, the Icon may be just the 'real thing' they're looking for. for others it may not be...

i think these are exciting times.
Real Thing meaning not a giant mouse. If the Icon was 10k, it might make sense.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]

What is the advantage of tracking drums on a Icon rather than a Neve? Unless it is considerably less $$$.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
The advantage would be if the client wanted to do the semi rough/final mix right after the tracking is done which is the way things were done in the old days.

Its not a rare thing to go with the rough mix as the main mix for the release.

Sometimes the roughs have certain magic quality and spontaneity that is just born in the moment.

But because its on the Icon you can always recall it if you want to butcher the feeling later.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
The advantage would be if the client wanted to do the semi rough/final mix right after the tracking is done which is the way things were done in the old days.

Its not a rare thing to go with the rough mix as the main mix for the release.

Sometimes the roughs have certain magic quality and spontaneity that is just born in the moment.

But because its on the Icon you can always recall it if you want to butcher the feeling later.
Could not you do that without spending 90k?
If you are going to mix out of the box why do you need a console at all, if all it does is control. I just can't see spending so much on comfortability, but to each his own.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #129
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Could not you do that without spending 90k?
Don't forget 90K includes the cards and converters.

Would i personally do it?

If i were mixing exclusively in PT probably.

There is something to be said about mixing on a dedicated surface designed for mixing.

Its one of the biggest strengths of the SSL.

Me personally its biggest.

To me the summing buss thing gets blown to out of proportion.

As a mixer the workflow is more crucial.

I don't want to think about things.

And when i do it has to happen at an instant.

Anything that accomplishes this will ultimately make the mix better.

Sure this wouldn't show up on a "gear thread".

But when you do this day to day its crucial.

The moment you stop to think and figure something out the "feeling is gone".

And as we all know its all about finding and capturing that "feeling".
Old 23rd July 2005
  #130
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Don't forget 90K includes the cards and converters.

Would i personally do it?

If i were mixing exclusively in PT probably.

There is something to be said about mixing on a dedicated surface designed for mixing.

Its one of the biggest strengths of the SSL.

Me personally its biggest.

To me the summing buss thing gets blown to out of proportion.

As a mixer the workflow is more crucial.

I don't want to think about things.

And when i do it has to happen at an instant.

Anything that accomplishes this will ultimately make the mix better.

Sure this wouldn't show up on a "gear thread".

But when you do this day to day its crucial.

The moment you stop to think and figure something out the "feeling is gone".

And as we all know its all about finding and capturing that "feeling".
I have worked on the Icon several times, I could see this console being the leader in the 5.1 world. That is my positive note.

If I was to spend 90k, I rather end up with the new SSL AWS900. I just can't see these same Icons being around 20+ years from now, unlike SSL 4000's. Especially knowing Digidesign and how they treat the older TDM Mix Plus customers, they definitely will dump supporting it, eventually stop upgrading for it, and ultimitaley stop manufacturing it. Besides being proprietary to Protools, 3 years from now it probably won't work (this is a possible hypothetical) with the Apple G6 or Protools 8.0, and you will get a postcard from Digi giving you till Nov. 2008 to return your Icon with a check for another 90k for Icon II. Or you will be selling your Icon on Ebay for a value of $3000. God forbid we ever change formats, these Icon users will be SOL. At least as an SSL user you can accommodate multi formats.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 23rd July 2005
  #131
Here for the gear
 

And where this thread is going is exactly why I didn't want to be in the conversation in the first place.

To call what we're doing "the same thing I can do at home" isn't accurate in any way. If you have this kind of outboard, then please feel free to stay at home. What you're paying for with us is the massive amount of outboard compressors and EQ's... what you're paying for on the front end is a huge assortment of preamps. You're also paying for the millions of dollars we put into our acoustics so that what you hear is absolutely accurate, and what you track sounds huge.

We NEVER used our SSL for the mic pre's, we used external preamps (Neve, API, Telefunken, etc). I would never even consider recording through the SSL preamps.

Is the ProTools automation the same you use at home? Yes. Are the plug ins the same you use at home? Yes. Did I mention several posts ago that we hardly ever use plug ins, as our abundance of outboard gear handles all that? Yes. Would I hesitate to use a plug in if it sounded right for the part, even with our outboard? No.

This worksurface gives the end client the world they are accustomed to--the Protools world, and our version of this gives you all the outboard gear to go with it. I can't think of a faster, more intelligent way to work that EVERYONE is using now, while providing the extra benefits that really seal the deal.

Our rates, with the SSL or the Icon, have always been $1000 per day. I don't believe that studios should be charging more than that range these days unless you're getting a massage along with your recording. We don't charge rental rates on any extra gear, there are no hidden costs, and our live room is absolutely incredible for drums (or anything else for that matter). This is another reason I built in Virginia--we're streamlined for the future, we can charge a lower rate that reflects what music projects SHOULD cost these days (because our operating costs are so low), and we only want clients who book time in order to get some real work done. We enjoy working the 12+ hour days with passionate, driven people who make music because it's in their blood.

I should make some other statements that are on my mind...

The last 5% of quality, or mojo, or whatever you want to call it, that a high-end studio like mine strives to achieve, is the part that costs the most. Anybody can hit 90-95%, it just takes money and time. The last 5% takes A LOT more money, A LOT more time, and more importantly people who lose sleep over this type of stuff (like me). Once you're there, you can truly hear what's going on in a mix, your first decisions when you turn knobs are the right ones, and you can TRUST what comes out of the speakers.

The goal then, once you've reached that point, is to make the process of achieving those sounds as seamless as possible. The Icon / hybrid approach provides that for me, and I wouldn't accept it unless the sound translated perfectly as well--remember our interfaces and outboard I mentioned earlier!

That being said, I'm not turning my back on analog consoles--but I do have a philosophy on them. I would definitely put another analog desk in here, in addition to the Icon, but it would have to be the absolute best thing ever--the preamps are awesome, the desk sounds huge, and the vibe of it is worth the daily maintenance. There are only a few desks that have reached that status for me, where I'd deal with the headache because the console is absolutely the ****. Those few would include the Trident A Range, and a select number of Neve desks. There are many other "nice" desks out there, but when I use my outboard preamps for everything, there's no point to having those on the console... when I use my outboard compressors and EQ's for everything, what's the point of the console having that on every channel... etc.

Anyway, off topic but my thoughts nonetheless...


-Kevin McNoldy
Crystalphonic Recording Studio
www.crystalphonic.com
Old 23rd July 2005
  #132
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lucey's Avatar
all great points Kevin ...
Old 23rd July 2005
  #133
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Our rates, with the SSL or the Icon, have always been $1000 per day. I don't believe that studios should be charging more than that range these days unless you're getting a massage along with your recording. We don't charge rental rates on any extra gear, there are no hidden costs, and our live room is absolutely incredible for drums (or anything else for that matter). This is another reason I built in Virginia--we're streamlined for the future, we can charge a lower rate that reflects what music projects SHOULD cost these days (because our operating costs are so low), and we only want clients who book time in order to get some real work done. We enjoy working the 12+ hour days with passionate, driven people who make music because it's in their blood.
cool, didnt know that. The rate seems cool, better than twice as much like some. Question comes up.....Do you always use every piece of outboard gear on every project heh Is it that the same list of gear is used for each type project. ex. Rock clients use, this, this and this..........and Post clients use this, this, and this??

I know your gonna save cash on power usage with the SSL gone???

P.S.[I]D-Control|32 MUSIC
Total Value:
Price:

$99,995

D-Control Main Unit
2 D-Control Fader Modules
Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
3 192 I/Os
MIDI I/O™
SYNC I/O™
PRE™
ReVibe™
Smack!™TDM
Synchronic™
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)
Old 24th July 2005
  #134
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalphonic
And where this thread is going is exactly why I didn't want to be in the conversation in the first place....
.... but my thoughts nonetheless...


-Kevin McNoldy
Crystalphonic Recording Studio
www.crystalphonic.com
man, i have soooo much respect for U.
spending all that time, writing such a lengthy post, clearly elucudating the reasons why Ur doin' what Ur doin' only to have peeps that are trapped in a tiny box of their own design make fun of your "$90K mouse".
i certainly wouldn't have the patience.
Old 24th July 2005
  #135
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i wish i hada mouse like that...
Old 24th July 2005
  #136
Gear Addict
 

I recorded a Jazz record at the first of the year at O'Henry in North Hollywood. All of the inputs went through the API Legacy that they have there, along with some fine outboard gear. I did the monitor mixes in Pro Tools with a mouse and keyboard. The artist/producer loved those mixes and the vibe. We used all of those mixes from the tracking date for final mixes. Some we opened and did a couple of rides on solos. No more than :30 minutes per tune. We were able to do that because I did the monitor mix in Pro Tools rather than on the console.

A few weeks ago, I worked at the Firehouse in Glendale. They have a Pro Tools HD system there, with the ICON, 18 1073s, 12 APIs and several Calrec modules. I recorded the yo cats, Ricky Lawson, Nathan East, and Paul Jackson Jr. and it sounded great. The producer has the stuff at his studio now, doing overdubs. We'll be mixing at his house and my house on Pro Tools with a keyboard and a mouse. He has a Control 24. but I rarely use it. My point is that I can make PT laugh and sing with a keyboard and a mouse. You may be slow working that way, but I'M NOT. I can work as fast as my imagination will take me.

These are both great studios, and I'll be back. But not for Pro Tools. I'll be back for the rooms and the great gear on the input side. My biggest fear is that these rooms won't survive waiting for me to come in and do a tracking date. I see the problem, but unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to change the way things are going.

It's too late to type anymore right now, but I'll check back.

Steve
Old 24th July 2005
  #137
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Sobe's Avatar
 

Quote:
man, i have soooo much respect for U.
spending all that time, writing such a lengthy post, clearly elucudating the reasons why Ur doin' what Ur doin' only to have peeps that are trapped in a tiny box of their own design make fun of your "$90K mouse".
i certainly wouldn't have the patience.
I second that
Old 24th July 2005
  #138
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalphonic
And where this thread is going is exactly why I didn't want to be in the conversation in the first place.

To call what we're doing "the same thing I can do at home" isn't accurate in any way. If you have this kind of outboard, then please feel free to stay at home. What you're paying for with us is the massive amount of outboard compressors and EQ's... what you're paying for on the front end is a huge assortment of preamps. You're also paying for the millions of dollars we put into our acoustics so that what you hear is absolutely accurate, and what you track sounds huge.

We NEVER used our SSL for the mic pre's, we used external preamps (Neve, API, Telefunken, etc). I would never even consider recording through the SSL preamps.

Is the ProTools automation the same you use at home? Yes. Are the plug ins the same you use at home? Yes. Did I mention several posts ago that we hardly ever use plug ins, as our abundance of outboard gear handles all that? Yes. Would I hesitate to use a plug in if it sounded right for the part, even with our outboard? No.

This worksurface gives the end client the world they are accustomed to--the Protools world, and our version of this gives you all the outboard gear to go with it. I can't think of a faster, more intelligent way to work that EVERYONE is using now, while providing the extra benefits that really seal the deal.

Our rates, with the SSL or the Icon, have always been $1000 per day. I don't believe that studios should be charging more than that range these days unless you're getting a massage along with your recording. We don't charge rental rates on any extra gear, there are no hidden costs, and our live room is absolutely incredible for drums (or anything else for that matter). This is another reason I built in Virginia--we're streamlined for the future, we can charge a lower rate that reflects what music projects SHOULD cost these days (because our operating costs are so low), and we only want clients who book time in order to get some real work done. We enjoy working the 12+ hour days with passionate, driven people who make music because it's in their blood.

I should make some other statements that are on my mind...

The last 5% of quality, or mojo, or whatever you want to call it, that a high-end studio like mine strives to achieve, is the part that costs the most. Anybody can hit 90-95%, it just takes money and time. The last 5% takes A LOT more money, A LOT more time, and more importantly people who lose sleep over this type of stuff (like me). Once you're there, you can truly hear what's going on in a mix, your first decisions when you turn knobs are the right ones, and you can TRUST what comes out of the speakers.

The goal then, once you've reached that point, is to make the process of achieving those sounds as seamless as possible. The Icon / hybrid approach provides that for me, and I wouldn't accept it unless the sound translated perfectly as well--remember our interfaces and outboard I mentioned earlier!

That being said, I'm not turning my back on analog consoles--but I do have a philosophy on them. I would definitely put another analog desk in here, in addition to the Icon, but it would have to be the absolute best thing ever--the preamps are awesome, the desk sounds huge, and the vibe of it is worth the daily maintenance. There are only a few desks that have reached that status for me, where I'd deal with the headache because the console is absolutely the ****. Those few would include the Trident A Range, and a select number of Neve desks. There are many other "nice" desks out there, but when I use my outboard preamps for everything, there's no point to having those on the console... when I use my outboard compressors and EQ's for everything, what's the point of the console having that on every channel... etc.

Anyway, off topic but my thoughts nonetheless...


-Kevin McNoldy
Crystalphonic Recording Studio
www.crystalphonic.com
Kevin, it's refreshing to read your intelligent explanations of your Icon installment. Obviously you have a clear vision and have formed your strategy accordingly. I'm sure you're going to do well and I wish you all the best with it. Awesome studio!

Greetings,
Dirk

As a side note: I think the little brother of the ICON, the D command, is going to be a major hit. It does most of what the Icon does at about 1/3rd of the price for a 24fader controller.
Old 24th July 2005
  #139
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MJGreene Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Kevin, it's refreshing to read your intelligent explanations of your Icon installment. Obviously you have a clear vision and have formed your strategy accordingly. I'm sure you're going to do well and I wish you all the best with it. Awesome studio!
I agree. And that kind of vision and understanding of his own business combined with what I am going to assume are some pretty great ears are what separate a great studio and business verses a business with amazing gear but no vision or ability to run it.

I wish you great success in you future. It looks like you have a bright one ahead of you.

Michael Greene
Old 24th July 2005
  #140
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing
I recorded a Jazz record at the first of the year at O'Henry in North Hollywood. All of the inputs went through the API Legacy that they have there, along with some fine outboard gear. I did the monitor mixes in Pro Tools with a mouse and keyboard. The artist/producer loved those mixes and the vibe. We used all of those mixes from the tracking date for final mixes. Some we opened and did a couple of rides on solos. No more than :30 minutes per tune. We were able to do that because I did the monitor mix in Pro Tools rather than on the console.

A few weeks ago, I worked at the Firehouse in Glendale. They have a Pro Tools HD system there, with the ICON, 18 1073s, 12 APIs and several Calrec modules. I recorded the yo cats, Ricky Lawson, Nathan East, and Paul Jackson Jr. and it sounded great. The producer has the stuff at his studio now, doing overdubs. We'll be mixing at his house and my house on Pro Tools with a keyboard and a mouse. He has a Control 24. but I rarely use it. My point is that I can make PT laugh and sing with a keyboard and a mouse. You may be slow working that way, but I'M NOT. I can work as fast as my imagination will take me.

These are both great studios, and I'll be back. But not for Pro Tools. I'll be back for the rooms and the great gear on the input side. My biggest fear is that these rooms won't survive waiting for me to come in and do a tracking date. I see the problem, but unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to change the way things are going.

It's too late to type anymore right now, but I'll check back.

Steve
My fear also. Firehouse is the studio where I have had most experience with the Icon. It is a great studio, but not because of the Icon. I agree with you.
Although, I will say there has been no down time, maybe that can be attributed to the Icon. I still think Digi is over pricing that console.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 24th July 2005
  #141
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I still think Digi is over pricing that console.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
long as they keep selling them at that price point, don't think digi will think so
Old 25th July 2005
  #142
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
long as they keep selling them at that price point, don't think digi will think so
I guess some would say that 90k is a great deal for a controller.
Old 25th July 2005
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I guess some would say that 90k is a great deal for a controller.
Just for clarification, $74,999.00 is the list price of a 16 fader D-Control bundled with:

Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
3 192 I/Os
MIDI I/O
SYNC I/O
PRE
ReVibe
Smack! TDM
Synchronic
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)

So, that's bit more than just a "controller". You're getting quite a lot of convertors in/out of the system, midi interface, smpte interface, mic pre's, a DigiDelivery account, as well as an HD3 Accel system with some great plugs. Compared to, say, a Euphonix System 5, doesn't seem that out of line.
Old 25th July 2005
  #144
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studjo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Don't forget 90K includes the cards and converters.

Would i personally do it?

If i were mixing exclusively in PT probably.

There is something to be said about mixing on a dedicated surface designed for mixing.

Its one of the biggest strengths of the SSL.

Me personally its biggest.

To me the summing buss thing gets blown to out of proportion.

As a mixer the workflow is more crucial.

I don't want to think about things.

And when i do it has to happen at an instant.

Anything that accomplishes this will ultimately make the mix better.

Sure this wouldn't show up on a "gear thread".

But when you do this day to day its crucial.

The moment you stop to think and figure something out the "feeling is gone".

And as we all know its all about finding and capturing that "feeling".


R E S P E C T Thrill - I couldn't agree more
Old 25th July 2005
  #145
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
There is something to be said about mixing on a dedicated surface designed for mixing.

...

As a mixer the workflow is more crucial.

I don't want to think about things.

And when i do it has to happen at an instant.

you speak the truth. the biggest impact on my flow came when i ditched the console and pursued the hybrid setup... it takes me 5 days to mix one of my songs now, where all i needed before was two.

i suspect i won't be back in the full flow until there is an eq in the rack for every channel and a comp for 25% of them plus the busses. to reach out to a defined point in space, close my eyes, turn two knobs, then 2 seconds later be turning another knob while nudging a fader, is useful beyond measure.

that damn lcd screen is my enemy. anything i can do to eliminate my visual cortex from the process makes the creation of music exponentially more fluid.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 25th July 2005
  #146
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resonater
Just for clarification, $74,999.00 is the list price of a 16 fader D-Control bundled with:

Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
3 192 I/Os
MIDI I/O
SYNC I/O
PRE
ReVibe
Smack! TDM
Synchronic
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)

So, that's bit more than just a "controller". You're getting quite a lot of convertors in/out of the system, midi interface, smpte interface, mic pre's, a DigiDelivery account, as well as an HD3 Accel system with some great plugs. Compared to, say, a Euphonix System 5, doesn't seem that out of line.
Originally I thought it was 65k, saw another post correcting to 90k. Still 75k is alot for what it does. My fear is where will this system be in 3 years. Digidesign is famous for coming out with a new breed and forcing your old system out. There is a conflict of interest when you have everything tied up into one system (they have you by the balls). I don't mind forking out 15k every 3 or 4 years for new technology, but 75k would hurt. I was talking more along the lines of SSL AWS 900, not Euphonix.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 25th July 2005
  #147
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Originally I thought it was 65k, saw another post correcting to 90k. Still 75k is alot for what it does. My fear is where will this system be in 3 years. Digidesign is famous for coming out with a new breed and forcing your old system out. There is a conflict of interest when you have everything tied up into one system (they have you by the balls). I don't mind forking out 15k every 3 or 4 years for new technology, but 75k would hurt.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
You'd only be forking out for the core audio system.

That would be around 15K.

All tied into one system.

Think about the studios that purchased SSL 9000J's.

This is a half a million purchase.

Now with the release of the K everyone who was working on the J wants to mix on it.

On the used market the G+ is the most requested.

Followed by the E fans.

The J's are dead last and a hard sell.
Old 25th July 2005
  #148
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Originally I thought it was 65k, saw another post correcting to 90k. Still 75k is alot for what it does. My fear is where will this system be in 3 years. Digidesign is famous for coming out with a new breed and forcing your old system out. There is a conflict of interest when you have everything tied up into one system (they have you by the balls). I don't mind forking out 15k every 3 or 4 years for new technology, but 75k would hurt. I was talking more along the lines of SSL AWS 900, not Euphonix.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
I don't know...That's a lot of stuff for 75K. I wish I could get that much for the 250K CS-3000 that I need to unload.

Steve
Old 26th July 2005
  #149
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Since the boom of home recording, most musicians believe they are engineers, and have mastered Protools. The 3 things that seperates them from a select few is equipment, skill and credits.

What is the advantage of tracking drums on a Icon rather than a Neve? Unless it is considerably less $$$.
The biggest thing that separates the good engineers from the hacks is knowledge and skill.

Credits and equipment aren't part of being a good engineer, but they DO come along for the ride after a certain point. Let's face it, there are AE's out there who can crush with minimal pro-sumer tools and there are tons of people who couldn't mix their way out of a paper bag no matter what or how much equipment they have at their disposal.

Anywhoo...I'm looking at the Icon vs. a real console as the old apple vs. an orange. Part of the 'problem' (for me) with DAW's is that at times the workflow can be drastically different from the "traditional" setup of having a console and a multitrack and it can slow a project down or even worse...bring forward progress to a halt while we read manuals and consult with the spirits.

I haven't spent any time on an Icon, but if what guys like Thrill and Kevin are saying is true...that it can remove the GUI and all the BS from the DAW experience so you can work and not have to over think it and slow down the creative process?

That's too cool for school!

I wouldn't be too worried about the ICON holding or not holding it's value. Anybody spending that kind of capital is going to depreciate it over five years and if you're business can't support an investment like that then you shouldn't be making that investment.

Besides, it's my understanding that the ICON is just an interface correct? So in theory it should be future proof for a number of years as the next two or three generations of PT hit the market. How long was the Mix+ system out before it was replaced by HD? Four or five years right? I figure the weirdest and most uncomfortable thing is that a few years ago Digi was pushing the Procontrol as the "First truly professional interface and controller" and now they're saying the same thing about the ICON.
Old 26th July 2005
  #150
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
you speak the truth. the biggest impact on my flow came when i ditched the console and pursued the hybrid setup... it takes me 5 days to mix one of my songs now, where all i needed before was two.

i suspect i won't be back in the full flow until there is an eq in the rack for every channel and a comp for 25% of them plus the busses. to reach out to a defined point in space, close my eyes, turn two knobs, then 2 seconds later be turning another knob while nudging a fader, is useful beyond measure.

that damn lcd screen is my enemy. anything i can do to eliminate my visual cortex from the process makes the creation of music exponentially more fluid.


gregoire
del ubik
As far as EQ's being on every channel, on the Icon, you would set up a mixing template that would put your eq plugs on every channel, etc. Then you would import the playlists, etc into your template. This is akin to leaving a console with your favorite gear set up at all times and just putting on a different tape (containing the audio) for the next mix. This is something I am very much interested in doing on the Icon. As far as the LCD goes, if you are truly only mixing, you should rarely need that with the icon, as the icon handles the mix functions, while the LCD would only be there for you to fly parts around, and other editing functions.
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