The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Questions for Michael Wagener
Old 5th July 2005
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Questions for Michael Wagener

I just stumbled across this forum, and I have to say, it looks like a wealth of information with a lot of very talented and knowledgable guys here. I browsed some of the threads, and I have some questions for Micheal Wagener if he has a few moments to answer. If you're busy or don't feel like answering some, it's all cool and completely understood. I'm just brainstorming with questions and comments right now, so I thought I'd toss it all out there! It's a lot, so please don't feel compelled that you have to answer it all (if any). Here we go:


Your work with Ozzy/Zakk is some of my favorite. I completely agree that your mix of "No More Tears" was far superior to the remixed/remastered versions. You have P/R/M credits on "Ozzmosis." I think that you guys captured a great guitar sound on that album. It stands out as very powerful and different from a lot of rock/metal of that era. I understand that Zakk was using a Marshall JCM 800 Head Unit into a stock Marshall JCM 800 4X12 Cab with 75W Celestions. Were the guitar tracks recorded using only the JCM 800's gain, or was it supplemented with his BOSS SD-1 that he always used, and approximately what volume did you have the head cranked to? Also, do you recall how many tracks of rhythm that you guys recorded and how they were panned (i.e., 2 tracks 100% left and right, 4 tracks with an additional set panend 75% left and right, etc)?


Have you heard the recent remix of Mega's "So Far, So Good, So What?" If so, what is your take on the quality of the remixed version done by Dave Mustaine?


It must have been an amazing experience working with Metallica on "Master of Puppets," which has went on to become one of the most heralded metal albums of the genre. I have noticed that Cliff's bass seems a little low at times. Was this a conscious decision that was wanted by the band, or did the mix just dictate the bass needing to be around that level? I'm also curious as to what other types of processing or compression you did to the guitar signal if you recall during the mix? Do you recall how many guitar tracks were used and how they were panned? The "MOP" guitar sound/mix is still one of my favorites to this day.


I had read that the exact same ADA MP-1 Preamp was used, with the same settings and all were used on the albums by Skid Row, Extreme, and White Lion. Yet, all 3 sound different. Was the same cab used for each? This is definitely a great testament to how much tone truly comes from a player. Do you recall if this same setup was also used on Skid Row's "Slave to the Grind" album. I believe I also read that you still have that ADA MP-1 to this day. Any chance that you'd be willing to share those settings sometime with us? And if you ever decide you'd like to sell that ADA MP-1, let me know...I'm in the market for one right now...


If you have any extra time (or desire) to answer any of the above, it would be greatly appreciated. Regardless, thanks for taking the time to share some of your experiences and knowledge with us...cheers!
Old 8th July 2005
  #2
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
I just stumbled across this forum, and I have to say, it looks like a wealth of information with a lot of very talented and knowledgable guys here. I browsed some of the threads, and I have some questions for Micheal Wagener if he has a few moments to answer. If you're busy or don't feel like answering some, it's all cool and completely understood. I'm just brainstorming with questions and comments right now, so I thought I'd toss it all out there! It's a lot, so please don't feel compelled that you have to answer it all (if any). Here we go:
Sorry for the delay in answering your questions, I was locked up in the studio the last few days setting up drums for the HYDROGYN session, just stumbled across this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
Your work with Ozzy/Zakk is some of my favorite. I completely agree that your mix of "No More Tears" was far superior to the remixed/remastered versions.
I don't think "No More Tears" has been remixed. It has, however been remastered and completely destroyed by Mr. Athens at Sterling, to the point that I can't even listen to it anymore. When I first heard it, I thought my CD player was broken. Try to find the origianl version if you want to hear how it was meant to sound, the re-master is a piece of sh*t, don't buy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
You have P/R/M credits on "Ozzmosis." I think that you guys captured a great guitar sound on that album. It stands out as very powerful and different from a lot of rock/metal of that era. I understand that Zakk was using a Marshall JCM 800 Head Unit into a stock Marshall JCM 800 4X12 Cab with 75W Celestions. Were the guitar tracks recorded using only the JCM 800's gain, or was it supplemented with his BOSS SD-1 that he always used, and approximately what volume did you have the head cranked to? Also, do you recall how many tracks of rhythm that you guys recorded and how they were panned (i.e., 2 tracks 100% left and right, 4 tracks with an additional set panend 75% left and right, etc)?
A couple remarks to "Ozzmosis" I produced and recorded 6 songs, which, at the request of the label, should sound exactly like "No More Tears". Halfway through the sessions, the label made up it's mind and wanted the album to sound like "Soundgarden". After I disagreed heavily with that change in direction, they gave the record to somebody else to finish. A lot of the tracks got re-recorded, others where kept and just slowed down or modified in some way or another. I was not very happy when I heard the final version of the album (and so was Ozzy), but the label released it anyway. About six month after the initial release, they added "Amy" to the album and re-released it. "Amy" was one of the original recordings/mixes I did. Recently Ozzy came out with the box set and included my version of "See You On The Other Side" on it, with the remark that: "...this is what Ozzmosis should have sounded like...". So, to answer your question, yes, on the "original" recordings/mixes of Ozzmosis Zakk used a stock Marshall 800 and with a stock 800 cab and his LesPaul with EMG pickups. No pedals, just crancked up until the distortion was right. We recorded two separate rhythm tracks and I panned them hard left and right. The solos where also doubled (in one take, might I add) but panned on top each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
Have you heard the recent remix of Mega's "So Far, So Good, So What?" If so, what is your take on the quality of the remixed version done by Dave Mustaine?
For what they had to work with (original recordings) I think it sounds good and Ralph did a great job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
It must have been an amazing experience working with Metallica on "Master of Puppets," which has went on to become one of the most heralded metal albums of the genre. I have noticed that Cliff's bass seems a little low at times. Was this a conscious decision that was wanted by the band, or did the mix just dictate the bass needing to be around that level? I'm also curious as to what other types of processing or compression you did to the guitar signal if you recall during the mix? Do you recall how many guitar tracks were used and how they were panned? The "MOP" guitar sound/mix is still one of my favorites to this day.
Yes, it was a concious decission by Lars and James that the bass should take second seat to the low end of the guitars. We had long discussions about that, but the band had a pretty fixed idea on how they wanted the album to sound. As to the guitars: they had recorded six track of rythm guitar. They were panned: one hard left, the second one (playing the same riffs) to about 11 o'clock. The other two main tracks (playing slightly different riffs than the left side) where panned the same way to the right side, one full the other to about 2 o'clock. Then there were two tracks chugging just the low E string on the actual "chunks" and those were panned hard left and right as well and were responsible for all the low end of the guitars. No compression (a guitar amp compresses enough IMO) and just a little short room from a Quantec QRS Room Simulator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
I had read that the exact same ADA MP-1 Preamp was used, with the same settings and all were used on the albums by Skid Row, Extreme, and White Lion. Yet, all 3 sound different. Was the same cab used for each? This is definitely a great testament to how much tone truly comes from a player. Do you recall if this same setup was also used on Skid Row's "Slave to the Grind" album. I believe I also read that you still have that ADA MP-1 to this day. Any chance that you'd be willing to share those settings sometime with us? And if you ever decide you'd like to sell that ADA MP-1, let me know...I'm in the market for one right now...
Yes, correct: same ADA MP-1, same setting (#45), same cab, same McIntosh power amps (sold, sorry) same mics, different player, different room, different guitars. Yes, I still have the ADA, and I don't want to sell it, but I don't remember the settings off hand. They are still in there, and if I remember (my head is kinda full with the current project), I'll write them down and post them here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
If you have any extra time (or desire) to answer any of the above, it would be greatly appreciated. Regardless, thanks for taking the time to share some of your experiences and knowledge with us...cheers!
Anytime.

Last edited by mwagener; 15th March 2006 at 03:31 PM..
Old 8th July 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Micheal Wagener is the fashizzle' ma nizzle...

Seriously Mike, thanks for responding! That was a great post.

I love Gearslutz....Gracias Jules.

Old 8th July 2005
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
dtucker's Avatar
 

Holy crap!

Seriously! How do you remember all that so clearly? What was that...20 years ago? Wow.

Also, I'm not familiar w/ the remastered version of "No More Tears". What exactly did the re-mastering engineer do to it that would make you such strong language against it?

BC
Old 8th July 2005
  #5
azz
Gear Head
 

Great info ther mwagener cheers
Old 8th July 2005
  #6
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

I just put a full AIFF version of No More Tears in my iPod to workout to, holy **** that tunes rocks. The best build up into a solo ever, hands down. Zakk is my hero, what a solo!!!
Old 8th July 2005
  #7
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtucker
Seriously! How do you remember all that so clearly? What was that...20 years ago? Wow.
Thanx. I seem to remember studio stuff forever, but I forget somebody's name 2 minutes after I meet them heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtucker
Also, I'm not familiar w/ the remastered version of "No More Tears". What exactly did the re-mastering engineer do to it that would make you such strong language against it?

BC
The remaster is supercompressed, all that nice dynamic is gone and they lifted 4k to the point where the guitars are now taking your head off, unlistenable.
Old 8th July 2005
  #8
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Great post Michael and what a great memory! I forget how I recorded the album I finished last week!!!
Old 8th July 2005
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Sorry for the delay in answering your questions, I was looked up in the studio the last few days setting up drums for the HYDROGYN session, just stumbled across this thread.
Don't apologize for the delay at all...I'm just happy that you actually answered, and especially so thoroughly! thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
I don't think "No More Tears" has been remixed. It has, however been remastered and completely destroyed by Mr. Athens at Sterling, to the point that I can't even listen to it anymore. When I first heard it, I thought my CD player was broken. Try to find the origianl version if you want to hear how it was meant to sound, the re-master is a piece of sh*t, don't buy it.
I said "mix" when I meant "master"...typo on my part... I actually have the original, which I thought sounded great. I have a buddy that picked up the remastered version, and I thought that it sounded drastically different (in a bad way). He thought it sounded OK, but then again, he's not used to hearing the original version like I have all these years either. I only have one of the remasters from that series, which didn't sound too bad. I think it was "No Rest for the Wicked."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
A couple remarks to "Ozzmosis" I produced and recorded 6 songs, which, at the request of the label, should sound exactly like "No More Tears". Halfway through the sessions, the label made up it's mind and wanted the album to sound like "Soundgarden". After I disagreed heavily with that change in direction, they gave the record to somebody else to finish.
Wow...gotta love the labels. It's funny that they wanted that "No More Tears" sound up front, then wanted it to sound like Soundgarden after the fact. I think that was right around the time that Soundgarden's "Superunknown" album was exploding with popularity, so it doesn't surprise me. Very interesting indeed. Do you recall if any of your tracks actually remained pretty close to what you guys recorded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Recently Ozzy came out with the box set and included my version of "See You On The Other Side" on it, with the remark that: "...this is what Ozzmosis should have sounded like...". So, to answer your question, yes, on the "original" recordings/mixes of Ozzmosis Zakk used a stock Marshall 800 and with a stock 800 cab and his LesPaul with EMG pickups. No pedals, just crancked up until the distortion was right. We recorded two separate rhythm tracks and I panned them hard left and right. The solos where also doubled (in one take, might I add) but panned on top each other.
I've been meaning to pick up that boxed set for some time now, but I've yet to do it. I'm curious to hear the difference in the 2 versions. As for the JCM 800 and Zakk, I'm surprised that you guys were able to get that much distortion form JCM 800 without an external pedal or anything. Granted, that sound isn't overly saturated by todays standards, but the previous JCM 800 I played seemed like it couldn't get above an AC/DC level of crunch unless it was on deafening volumes. That was a 100W model, so I'm sure a 50W model would have given more leadway for some power tube saturation in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Yes, it was a concious decission by Lars and James that the bass should take second seat to the low end of the guitars. We had long discussions about that, but the band had a pretty fixed idea on how they wanted the album to sound. As to the guitars: they had recorded six track of rythm guitar. They were panned: one hard left, the second one (playing the same riffs) to about 11 o'clock. The other two main tracks (playing slightly different riffs than the left side) where panned the same way to the right side, one full the other to about 2 o'clock. Then there were two tracks chugging just the low E string on the actual "chunks" and those were panned hard left and right as well and were responsible for all the low end of the guitars. No compression (a guitar amp compresses enough IMO) and just a little short room from a Quantec QRS Room Simulator.
I figured it was a concious decision on their part. It seemed that the bass kept playing a smaller and smaller role per album for them up until "Justice" when it was virtually non-existant. About the guitars, that's an interesting approach that I've not heard of many people doing before (not that I'm advanced in recording techniques by any means). I myself have double up the "chunks" on separate guitars for extra power before. You definitely did an awesome job mixing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Yes, correct: same ADA MP-1, same setting (#45), same cab, same McIntosh power amps (sold, sorry) same mics, different player, different room, different guitars.
That's amazing...when you say "Setting #45"...is that the only patch you guys used when recording those albums, as in that was used for rhythms and leads both? I just assumed you guys had a different patch for cleans, rhythms, and leads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Yes, I still have the ADA, and I don't want to sell it, but I don't remember the settings off hand. They are still in there, and if I remember (my head is kinda full with the current project), I'll write them down and post them here.
I was just joking about selling the ADA, but that's awesome if you ever do post the settings. I'd be curious to see them. And definitely no rush...you've already answered more than I could have ever asked. Thanks again for replying and providing such in-depth and insightful answers...much appreciated! thumbsup
Old 8th July 2005
  #10
Gear Addict
 
Prickstein's Avatar
 

ADA settings

ADA MP-1 owner here, would love it if you posted the settings for that one Michael, or is it the factory setting #45, I think that might still be in mine!
You're a true champion.
Old 8th July 2005
  #11
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
Wow...gotta love the labels. It's funny that they wanted that "No More Tears" sound up front, then wanted it to sound like Soundgarden after the fact. I think that was right around the time that Soundgarden's "Superunknown" album was exploding with popularity, so it doesn't surprise me. Very interesting indeed. Do you recall if any of your tracks actually remained pretty close to what you guys recorded?
No I really can't tell what's original and what has been re-recorded. The funny thing is, I turned down the production of Soundgarden's first album after hearing the demos. It was not "up my alley". Whomever ended up doing the album did a great job and took it a long way from the demo. I think it was the same guy who redid "Ozzmosis"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
That's amazing...when you say "Setting #45"...is that the only patch you guys used when recording those albums, as in that was used for rhythms and leads both? I just assumed you guys had a different patch for cleans, rhythms, and leads.
No just rhythms on most of the songs. On leads we used all kinds of combinatons of amps and cabs. And of course #45 wasn't used on every track either. It was the main setting though. I'll check it out when I get to the studio today.
Old 8th July 2005
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
No I really can't tell what's original and what has been re-recorded. The funny thing is, I turned down the production of Soundgarden's first album after hearing the demos. It was not "up my alley". Whomever ended up doing the album did a great job and took it a long way from the demo. I think it was the same guy who redid "Ozzmosis"
I think it was Terry Date that did Soundgarden's first major label release ("Badmotorfinger"). But, you're right about the soundgarden connection...I checked to see who did the producing for "Ozzmosis," and it was Michael Beinhorn, the same guys who coincidently produced Soundgarden's "Superunknown" album. It's interesting to see how all the politics played into the sound of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
No just rhythms on most of the songs. On leads we used all kinds of combinatons of amps and cabs. And of course #45 wasn't used on every track either. It was the main setting though. I'll check it out when I get to the studio today.
That's awesome. I've always loved the lead sound that guys achieved on those albums, too. White Lion's "Wait" has an amazing sound, as does "When the Children Cry." The clean on Skid Row's "18 & Life" always sounded like an ADA MP-1 clean patch to me.

Thanks again for all the info...much appreciated!
Old 8th July 2005
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Wow, check this out...I was scanning the net for some additional info on "Ozzmosis" and what actually happened there, and I discovered this is the process.

Just as Michael (Wagener) stated, he was brought in to produce the album, with the label exec's claiming they wanted it to sound "just like No More Tears." One thing I didn't realize it that is was stated that Randy Castillo and Mike Inez were originally on the tracks with Michael behind the helm, not Geezer Butler and Deen Castronova. Is this true?

As the sessions went on, Michael and crew had actually finished 7 tracks for the album, recorded and mixed. These tracks were: Perry Mason, See You on the Other Side, Tomorrow, Old LA Tonight, Aimee, Living with the Enemy, and Slow Burn. Of these tracks, both "Aimee" and "Living with the Enemy" have been released as B-Side singles ("Aimee" is also on the new remaster). The track "Slow Burn" has never been released. For the 4 tracks that were on the album, it has been stated that those versions were drastically different sounding. I even did catch a 7 second clip of "Perry Mason," which did sound different (and a lot cooler) than the keyboards that Michael Beinhorn added.

After the 7 songs were completed for the album, the label (Epic) approached Wagener and told him that they wanted it to "sound like Soundgarden." As stated, Michael wasn't into it (not to mention that tacking of the majority of the album was complete), and the label abandoned the album tracking. Instead, Michael Beinhorn was brought in (fresh off of working with Soundgarden) and Mike Inez and Randy Castillo were not asked back (which I suspect was partly a Beinhorn decision).

As the writing process ensued, Beinhorn started screwing with things and also suggested that Ozzy work with Jim Vallance to write a track for the album. Beinhirn sent Vallance a tape and told him in phone conversations that he "wanted to take Ozzy's music in a whole new direction." He sent Vallance a tape that included a Frank Sinatra duet with his daughter, a NIN's song, and roughly 30 other random songs...quite odd, don't you think?

The album was recut with a few new tracks and with the whole new rhythm session. from what I gather, Ozzy was never really pleased with the results or with Beinhorn in general. He always much preferred the Wagener versions of everything. It was even stated that the original demo for "I Just Want You" had soem "Strawberry Fields" type flutes going at times, and although Ozzy fought hard to keep them in, Beinhorn eventually wiped them all from the final mix.

Fast forward to current day, and now Wagener's original version of "See You on the Other Side" has been released on the new box set. The tracks "Aimee" and "Living with the Enemy" made it as B-sides, which still leaves 3 versions of tracks from Ozzmosis (Perry Mason, Tomorrow, and Old LA Tonight) and the unreleased "Slow Burn" from the Wagener sessions that have yet to be heard.

Michael (Wagener), I would personally love to hear your renditions of "Perry Mason" and "Tomorrow." Those are my 2 favorite songs on the album, and I'd love to hear how much different (and better I speculate) they would sound. We need to light a fire under Ozzy and get those things released...LOL heh

So, does all of this seem like a pretty accurate portayal of what happened? also, do you remember anything about the track "Slow Burn" which has never been released? I'm curious if it was a heavy type song or just another ballad type.
Old 8th July 2005
  #14
Old 8th July 2005
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Thanks fo the link man! I'm new to the forum, so I'm trying to catch up. I apologize if I'm repeating things that have been discussed a million times...heh

That clip of Perry Mason sounds amazing and definitely more in line with what I would have expected. To me, it sounds more like "Ozzy." Makes me wish the original session with Wagener would have been released now, especially "Tomorrow" which is one of my favorite Ozzy songs. Gotta love the labels.

I noticed there's a lot less of Zakk's pinch harmonics in there. Was that just the way it was originally (minus the harmonics), or are those somehting Zakk tends to overdub on later perhaps?

Regardless, very impressive! thumbsup
Old 9th July 2005
  #16
Lives for gear
 

I though David Bianco mixed some of that record.
I remember him going out to the Manor to work with Ozzy around that time.
I could be wrong.
I always assumed he mixed Parry Mason.

Cool of MW to give details on this stuff.
Old 9th July 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 
blackcom's Avatar
 

The drums on Master of Puppets almost sound a bit triggered...

Di'd you...use triggers?
Old 9th July 2005
  #18
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom
The drums on Master of Puppets almost sound a bit triggered...

Di'd you...use triggers?
NEVER!!!
Old 9th July 2005
  #19
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
Wow, check this out...I was scanning the net for some additional info on "Ozzmosis" and what actually happened there, and I discovered this is the process.

Just as Michael (Wagener) stated, he was brought in to produce the album, with the label exec's claiming they wanted it to sound "just like No More Tears." One thing I didn't realize it that is was stated that Randy Castillo and Mike Inez were originally on the tracks with Michael behind the helm, not Geezer Butler and Deen Castronova. Is this true?

As the sessions went on, Michael and crew had actually finished 7 tracks for the album, recorded and mixed. These tracks were: Perry Mason, See You on the Other Side, Tomorrow, Old LA Tonight, Aimee, Living with the Enemy, and Slow Burn. Of these tracks, both "Aimee" and "Living with the Enemy" have been released as B-Side singles ("Aimee" is also on the new remaster). The track "Slow Burn" has never been released. For the 4 tracks that were on the album, it has been stated that those versions were drastically different sounding. I even did catch a 7 second clip of "Perry Mason," which did sound different (and a lot cooler) than the keyboards that Michael Beinhorn added.

After the 7 songs were completed for the album, the label (Epic) approached Wagener and told him that they wanted it to "sound like Soundgarden." As stated, Michael wasn't into it (not to mention that tacking of the majority of the album was complete), and the label abandoned the album tracking. Instead, Michael Beinhorn was brought in (fresh off of working with Soundgarden) and Mike Inez and Randy Castillo were not asked back (which I suspect was partly a Beinhorn decision).

As the writing process ensued, Beinhorn started screwing with things and also suggested that Ozzy work with Jim Vallance to write a track for the album. Beinhirn sent Vallance a tape and told him in phone conversations that he "wanted to take Ozzy's music in a whole new direction." He sent Vallance a tape that included a Frank Sinatra duet with his daughter, a NIN's song, and roughly 30 other random songs...quite odd, don't you think?

The album was recut with a few new tracks and with the whole new rhythm session. from what I gather, Ozzy was never really pleased with the results or with Beinhorn in general. He always much preferred the Wagener versions of everything. It was even stated that the original demo for "I Just Want You" had soem "Strawberry Fields" type flutes going at times, and although Ozzy fought hard to keep them in, Beinhorn eventually wiped them all from the final mix.

Fast forward to current day, and now Wagener's original version of "See You on the Other Side" has been released on the new box set. The tracks "Aimee" and "Living with the Enemy" made it as B-sides, which still leaves 3 versions of tracks from Ozzmosis (Perry Mason, Tomorrow, and Old LA Tonight) and the unreleased "Slow Burn" from the Wagener sessions that have yet to be heard.

Michael (Wagener), I would personally love to hear your renditions of "Perry Mason" and "Tomorrow." Those are my 2 favorite songs on the album, and I'd love to hear how much different (and better I speculate) they would sound. We need to light a fire under Ozzy and get those things released...LOL heh

So, does all of this seem like a pretty accurate portayal of what happened? also, do you remember anything about the track "Slow Burn" which has never been released? I'm curious if it was a heavy type song or just another ballad type.
That is all correct as far as my part is concerned. The only difference is that the label didn't abandon the tacking sessions, but we stopped after those 7 songs were completely mixed. There was no more material at the time and Ozzy was going to write more before we started up again, which never happened. Where did you find all that info? Was it one site or did you put it all together? Could you please email me a link?

Well, you would have to come to my studio to listen to those versions, I can't let anymore out of the (internet) bag than I already did. We just listend to it today and the guys (and girl) from HYDROGYN were floored.

I checked the ADA settings today:

Overdrive 1 : CLEAN 42
Overdrive 2 : CLEAN 43
Master Gain : DIST 44
Bass : 45
Mid : 46
Treb : 47
Pres : 48
Voicing : 1
FX loop : 49 (I don't think there were any FX hooked up, so I this setting might not be relevant.

Now looking at those settings it occured to me that they all go up by one number from one setting to the next. The MP-1 has not been used (or been plugged in) for many years, so I'm not sure if the right settings stayed in memory. Ryu, my trusty assistant wrote the settings down a few years ago when he first started working at WireWorld. He is going to check as soon as he can get to them. Can you check for me if that is maybe the factory setting for #45?
Old 11th July 2005
  #20
Gear Addict
 
Prickstein's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener

I checked the ADA settings today:

Overdrive 1 : CLEAN 42
Overdrive 2 : CLEAN 43
Master Gain : DIST 44
Bass : 45
Mid : 46
Treb : 47
Pres : 48
Voicing : 1
FX loop : 49 (I don't think there were any FX hooked up, so I this setting might not be relevant.
?
Hi Michael, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I programmed any new sounds in my ADA but it sounds to me like you haven't hit the edit button to access the settings on the presets, from memory I think each parameter only went up to ten. I'm keen to get my hands on your settings also.
Thanks buddy
Old 11th July 2005
  #21
Lives for gear
 

ctrl+P heh heh heh

Thanks for the great info Michael.

Shane
Old 11th July 2005
  #22
Gear Addict
 

I was listenng a lot to "No More Tears" and "Master of Puppets" today while I was driving, and I ended up with a few questions...

On "Master of Puppets," I noticed that the vox seemed to have some reverb on them. Do all of the vox on there have reverb, and was differing amounts used for different secitons/songs...or was it a standard "apply X amount to vox" overall?

As I was listening (also a little to "Ride the Lightning"), I heard the drums pan from right to left during one of the tom rolls. I had previously spoken to a few local engineers not long ago, and they said that it was a "standard" to have the drums panned from "left to right" instead of "right to left"...sort of the drummers perspective instead of the audience perspective. I was wondering if there was much truth to this, especially considering I noticed the panning on a major album such as that being quite the opposite?

The harmony guitar also struck me. I had heard tales of the guitars being panned hard so that one guitar playing a melody was in one channel (right), while the other was panned hard to the other (left) playing the harmony. While I was listening today, I noticed on almost all songs (like "Master of Puppets" and "Mama I'm Coming Home"), both guitars could be heard clearly in both channels (right and left) when I separated them. So, correct me if I'm wrong here...when it comes to leads, they are typically panned to one side, say 25%. Would the harmonies also be panned accordingly, maybe one 25% to the right, and one 25% to the left?

Finally, I think the drum sound on "No More Tears" is awesome. I've been listening to a lot of more recently produced albums lately, so the drum sound immediately struck me when I popped NMT's back in today. It's very powerful and bold sounding, where as all the drums you hear today are more "in your face" and dry sounding. What do you think makes that drum sound so much different than modern day...perhaps some reverb that people don't seem to like to use anymore?
Old 11th July 2005
  #23
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickstein
Hi Michael, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I programmed any new sounds in my ADA but it sounds to me like you haven't hit the edit button to access the settings on the presets, from memory I think each parameter only went up to ten. I'm keen to get my hands on your settings also.
Thanks buddy
I think you're right. This thing hasn't been on in many years. I'll check again this week, sorry for the confusion
Old 11th July 2005
  #24
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
I was listenng a lot to "No More Tears" and "Master of Puppets" today while I was driving, and I ended up with a few questions...
You're keeping me busy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
On "Master of Puppets," I noticed that the vox seemed to have some reverb on them. Do all of the vox on there have reverb, and was differing amounts used for different secitons/songs...or was it a standard "apply X amount to vox" overall?
The type of reverb doesn't change but I normally ride an echo on some vocal lines, which in turn goes back into verb, that might be what you're hearing. Sometimes I bring up the verb in the choruses, no rules, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
As I was listening (also a little to "Ride the Lightning"), I heard the drums pan from right to left during one of the tom rolls. I had previously spoken to a few local engineers not long ago, and they said that it was a "standard" to have the drums panned from "left to right" instead of "right to left"...sort of the drummers perspective instead of the audience perspective. I was wondering if there was much truth to this, especially considering I noticed the panning on a major album such as that being quite the opposite?
Well, there is no "standard" in making records. I prefer to pan the drums as from the audience perspective, because the drummer is the only person in the world who hears it the other way around

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
The harmony guitar also struck me. I had heard tales of the guitars being panned hard so that one guitar playing a melody was in one channel (right), while the other was panned hard to the other (left) playing the harmony. While I was listening today, I noticed on almost all songs (like "Master of Puppets" and "Mama I'm Coming Home"), both guitars could be heard clearly in both channels (right and left) when I separated them. So, correct me if I'm wrong here...when it comes to leads, they are typically panned to one side, say 25%. Would the harmonies also be panned accordingly, maybe one 25% to the right, and one 25% to the left?
Again, no such thing as "typically". I sometimes pan leads completely over to one side and drop the rhythm guitar on that side during the lead somewhat. Sometimes I pan the lead to the middle and the harmony (if any) to the middle as well. It totally depends on the song, be creative!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human
Finally, I think the drum sound on "No More Tears" is awesome. I've been listening to a lot of more recently produced albums lately, so the drum sound immediately struck me when I popped NMT's back in today. It's very powerful and bold sounding, where as all the drums you hear today are more "in your face" and dry sounding. What do you think makes that drum sound so much different than modern day...perhaps some reverb that people don't seem to like to use anymore?
Reverb became a bad word in the 90s. Granted we overdid it in the 80s (just got all those nice digital reveb units to play with) but on the other hand it was "under done" in the 90s. I think I will go back to more verb again.
Old 11th July 2005
  #25
Just wanted to say thanks for all the info Michael... you are one of the reasons why Gearslutz is the best of the best!! Really big thanks for the effort here and on other threads.
Old 11th July 2005
  #26
Lives for gear
 
beechstudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Human


I figured it was a concious decision on their part. It seemed that the bass kept playing a smaller and smaller role per album for them up until "Justice" when it was virtually non-existant. About the guitars, that's an interesting approach that I've not heard of many people doing before (not that I'm advanced in recording techniques by any means). I myself have double up the "chunks" on separate guitars for extra power before. You definitely did an awesome job mixing it.


There was no bass guitar on "And Justice for All". This was out of respect for the passing of Cliff Burton, who in my opinion was one of the greatest metal bass players that ever existed!
Old 11th July 2005
  #27
Lives for gear
 
beechstudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickstein
ADA MP-1 owner here, would love it if you posted the settings for that one Michael, or is it the factory setting #45, I think that might still be in mine!
You're a true champion.
Yep.........another ADA MP1 owner here too!

Bought mine in 1988........still going strong! heh
Old 11th July 2005
  #28
Gear Nut
 
dobber's Avatar
 

I agree totally about the GearSlutz comment! It's insane that some schlub, like myself, can come on here and read this ****. I email'd Mr. Wagener a while back about buying some monitors. Never thought I'd be able to just email this guy. Much less have him reply with a very helpful endorsement and setting my mind at ease a little. All hail the big bad drums of the 80's. And thanks to the endless pro's on this board that put up with us young guys.
Old 11th July 2005
  #29
Gear Addict
 
Farview's Avatar
 

I vote this "The Best Thread Ever"
Old 11th July 2005
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Inner Light's Avatar
 

a little off topic but I just drove from Toronto to Montreal yesterday, and my wife and I literally listened to only M.Wagener, that is to say, Extreme, White Lion, Skid Row, Ozzy. I didn't even realize it, we were just on a hair band trip !

M.Wagener thanks for making my teenage (and adult) life so rich with your great talent and hard work.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump