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Eventide H8000 or Lexicon 960L or TC6000?
Old 1st July 2005
  #1
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Tetness's Avatar
Eventide H8000 or Lexicon 960L or TC6000?

I've checked the archives. Haven't really found a thread that answers my questions. Looking for mainly reverb, although, pitchshifting and other added FXs would be nice. I'm also wondering if the 960L is more than I need. Maybe a 480L would be fine if it sounds equally as good. The TC6000 would be cool, is the mastering stuff worth it as well. I don't know know anything about these items. I used to own a 300L and loved the way it sounded.

Anyway H8000, TC6000 or 960L What are their pros and cans? How much better do they sound than plug-ins? Thanks for your help on this.
Old 1st July 2005
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness

Anyway H8000, TC6000 or 960L What are their pros and cans? How much better do they sound than plug-ins? Thanks for your help on this.

They all sound better than plug ins and i mean way better.

Neither would be my top choice for my go to reverb especially on vocals though.

And if your next question is what would be, my answer is there isn't one answer.

My favorite vocal reveb sounds are a combination of different units.
Old 1st July 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 

I hate to disagree "thethrillfactor", but since you now can get a lot of the system 6000 stuff as plugins for TC powercore and soon Protools, it's somewhat misleading to say that the system 6000 is way better sounding than plugins.

I would say that TC 6000 is good sounding, but there are, in my opinion, plugins today that sounds just as good, and even better.
Old 1st July 2005
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500

I would say that TC 6000 is good sounding, but there are, in my opinion, plugins today that sounds just as good, and even better.
Like?
Old 1st July 2005
  #5
Lives for gear
 

For reverb, both Waves Ir-1 and Wizooverb (but you need to run at high sampling rates), that "classicverb" for TC powercore is on about the same level as the other TC algorithms in my opinion, Universal Audio has a 140 plate emulation thats ok. For "mastering" eq: Algorithmix red and orange and URS Fulltec (preferably running at 192k).


Yo!

Last edited by Lindell; 1st July 2005 at 06:29 PM.. Reason: Keep to subject please. Dont make this a Hardware vs. Software thing
Old 1st July 2005
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Oh yes I forgot about that Sony Oxford stuff, too.

Yo!

Last edited by Lindell; 1st July 2005 at 06:30 PM.. Reason: Keep to subject please. Dont make this a Hardware vs. Software thing
Old 1st July 2005
  #7
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
URS Fulltec (preferably running at 192k).
Mastering? ..Wow ..I have a bunch of the urs stuff [late night impulse buy]
to me the Fulltec sounds like cardboard compared to real ones..I'm using EQh2's a lot lately on the buss,
and no plugin comes remotely close to the mojo these things add to the signal.
even with no EQ added.
Haven't heard the Algorithmix stuff .
plug EQ's haven't impressed me so far.usefull when I'm out of O/B stuff..but not first choice.
the Altiverb was a real letdown as well..A/b'd some 960L/PCm81/91 patches to the impulse versions and the I/R's just sounded smaller W/ less depth than the real boxes.
Is the Waves IR-1 any better?
Old 1st July 2005
  #8
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
I've checked the archives. Haven't really found a thread that answers my questions. Looking for mainly reverb, although, pitchshifting and other added FXs would be nice. I'm also wondering if the 960L is more than I need. Maybe a 480L would be fine if it sounds equally as good. The TC6000 would be cool, is the mastering stuff worth it as well. I don't know know anything about these items. I used to own a 300L and loved the way it sounded.

Anyway H8000, TC6000 or 960L What are their pros and cans? How much better do they sound than plug-ins? Thanks for your help on this.
What are you mixing?

I do mainly rock, and the current cd I'm mixing all reverb duties are handled perfectly with only one M3000, one patch is a small room, the other a vocal hall...

I tend to devide FX into:
- "adds depth"
- "adds width"
- " adds space" etc.

A leadvocal never has only one FX running, typically I might use a mono delay (1/4 note) to add some depth, both M3000 patches to put the vocal into the drums-guitars-keys space and something like a pitchshift or flanger or whatever "width-adding" FX to get a spread out a little.

So, for reverb duties I'd get either the M6000 (if you want "functional reverb") or the 960 (if you want "featured reverd" i.e. more obvious reberb). If you want more than reverb, the H8000 will be great. I'd bet I could mix a rock record with only one H8000 and be very happy. In fact, my gearlust FX rack would be nothing more than just a M6000 and a H8000 (apart from maby a D-two or 2 for some basic delay duties).

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 1st July 2005
  #9
Gear Nut
 
audiomastermind's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
I hate to disagree "thethrillfactor", but since you now can get a lot of the system 6000 stuff as plugins for TC powercore and soon Protools, it's somewhat misleading to say that the system 6000 is way better sounding than plugins.

I would say that TC 6000 is good sounding, but there are, in my opinion, plugins today that sounds just as good, and even better.


is this a joke?
i tried all reverb plugins, on hd, cubase, logic etc...
ther is no way, today, that a reverb plugin will sound as good as
a tc6000, lexicon 960...
did you really listen when you compared them?

i (near) future, hopefully it will be possible
Old 1st July 2005
  #10
Gear Nut
 
audiomastermind's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
I've checked the archives. Haven't really found a thread that answers my questions. Looking for mainly reverb, although, pitchshifting and other added FXs would be nice. I'm also wondering if the 960L is more than I need. Maybe a 480L would be fine if it sounds equally as good. The TC6000 would be cool, is the mastering stuff worth it as well. I don't know know anything about these items. I used to own a 300L and loved the way it sounded.

Anyway H8000, TC6000 or 960L What are their pros and cans? How much better do they sound than plug-ins? Thanks for your help on this.

hi, in another thread in gearslutz, members helped me with my reverb question, concerning a quantec yardstick 2402/f
i bought one, and the thing sounds amazing
very simple and straightforward to use
you should try one


and yes, a beautiful 300L

brgds
philip
Old 1st July 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
If its mainly verbs you need...the Lexicon excells.The 6000 would be first choice for surround production. In an attempt to make these more affordable...you can choose full digital and analog....the most expensive version...or delete (or not add in the case of the TC 6000) to get the the input config you desire. The 6000 also has some very cool tools and optional programs for clean-up..Un-wrap...and first rate mastering tools
Sorry to say...not enuff of our clients have tried the 8000... the "Markee Factor"...not just the sound...seems to be present when buying an expensive reverb
Old 1st July 2005
  #12
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
We have sold many Yardsticks...great box for the price
Old 1st July 2005
  #13
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomastermind
is this a joke?
i tried all reverb plugins, on hd, cubase, logic etc...
ther is no way, today, that a reverb plugin will sound as good as
a tc6000, lexicon 960...
did you really listen when you compared them?

i (near) future, hopefully it will be possible
No joke, VSS3 for Powercore on 96 kHz is same sounding as VSS 3 in TC 3000-6000. I have Reverb 4000 and had 6000 before, so it was no problem to compare. I dare to say that due to better (shorter way-direct) integration plug-in delivered slightly better performance than outboard with same alghorithm.
But still choice of algorithms is narrower, so sometimes I have to use outboards.

GYang
Old 1st July 2005
  #14
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Tetness's Avatar
I don't want to buy several reverb unit/fx processors. Just one really good one. My studio is small, but high-end. I'm not doing surround, just mainly rock/pop/folky music. I only need to know which of these would be the choice for me.
Old 1st July 2005
  #15
Gear Nut
 
audiomastermind's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
I don't want to buy several reverb unit/fx processors. Just one really good one. My studio is small, but high-end. I'm not doing surround, just mainly rock/pop/folky music. I only need to know which of these would be the choice for me.

hello,
try, before you buy something, a quantec
maybe you'll love it

brgds
philip
Old 1st July 2005
  #16
Gear Nut
 
audiomastermind's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
No joke, VSS3 for Powercore on 96 kHz is same sounding as VSS 3 in TC 3000-6000. I have Reverb 4000 and had 6000 before, so it was no problem to compare. I dare to say that due to better (shorter way-direct) integration plug-in delivered slightly better performance than outboard with same alghorithm.
But still choice of algorithms is narrower, so sometimes I have to use outboards.

GYang

i must admit, you are prob. right concerning powercore and vvs3
but i really don't like vvs3 and a tc3000


but maybe you like it
Old 1st July 2005
  #17
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cdog's Avatar
*edit*

I WAS HAVING A BAD DAY


Old 1st July 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Tetness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
If you don't know which you need between a H8000, a 6000 or a 960L you have absolutely no business owning one other than "bling" factor.
Are you serious? I was in a recording studio the other day with Mark Linette and he was asking me about D.W. Fearn, Mercury, a lot of things. My response wasn't, "If ou don't know the difference between these items you have no business owning one". Bottom line, I've been using plugs for the last two years and do not have a whole lot of expererience with outboard verbs. That's why I subscribe to these threads, to get help. Not acidic replies such as yours, that offer nothing to me but a laugh.

So do me a favor, unsubscribe to this thread so other slutz, that have helped me considerable purchase the gear that is slowly becoming my studio, can continue to give me their welcomed advice.

Regards,

Tetness dfegad
Old 1st July 2005
  #19
Lives for gear
 

i'm sorry but cdog has a point. you said you didn't want digital in your music yet the only devices you listed as wanting to purchase are all digital. or you just like the extra noise that the transducers introduce?
Old 1st July 2005
  #20
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
WTF?!
complete unneccesary dis on Tet..
the guy is just trying to improve his setup..
1's and 0's,,digital,analog ...whatever.
F*ck the wording..He's trying to find out how to improve his game,and if he has the means to do so,
well right f*kkin on!!
without knowing what he's about ,you gotta shut him down?
lighten up.
I don't really think he's ready to install a real plate or echo chamber in his joint.
Thats why this forum exists..so we can all figure this SH*T out.
...Ask the wrong or right questions and get on with it.
G major my ass fuuck






Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
If you don't know which you need between a H8000, a 6000 or a 960L you have absolutely no business owning one other than "bling" factor.

If you want as little 1s and 0s in your music why are you asking about which high end DIGITAL FX processor to buy????

The idiocy never ends here, does it???

Go buy a TC G Major and call it a day
Old 1st July 2005
  #21
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
I would say that TC 6000 is good sounding, but there are, in my opinion, plugins today that sounds just as good, and even better.
I have not tried the 6000 but other T.C units like M-3000 and M-2000. Not being this two units top of the line, they sound really nice in comparison with ALL the verbs I have used as plugins.

I´ve been recently using Altiverb, way better than others, but I´ve found that I´m tired of using it, and I´ve only used it for a couple of months.

I think I was just happy with my new verb!

About plugins sounding EVEN BETTER!

Don´t think so. If you find one, please let me know. Lot´s of people will want a nice plugin instead of a 8K unit, or more?

Regards,
PUPO
Old 1st July 2005
  #22
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insomnio's Avatar
 

Another vote for outboard Fx here.

I
Old 1st July 2005
  #23
Gear Addict
 
RhOdEz's Avatar
 

Please don't buy 960L without trying it first .It's a lot of money and if you ask me not worth it .For that sum of money you can buy full rack of GOOD sounding reverbs with different sounds. 960 L has got only one sound and i just dont like it .I was spending a LOT of time trying to setup atleast decent vocal reverb with all the algos there and huh got so-so results.For that money i want result NOW ,like set and forget -and that happened few times with 480 l,pcm70,and 224xl .I think 960l is maybe okay for surround thing ,but it's not "lexicon" sounding reverb anymore .Skip pcm 81,91 too ,i'm sure boys and gals here will reccomend you few fine boxes for that sum of money .
Good luck thumbsup
Old 1st July 2005
  #24
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
Looking for mainly reverb, although, pitchshifting and other added FXs would be nice.
H-8000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
I'm also wondering if the 960L is more than I need.
BIG BUCKS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
Maybe a 480L would be fine if it sounds equally as good.
Pitchshifting and other EFX´s?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetness
The TC6000 would be cool, is the mastering stuff worth it as well. I don't know know anything about these items.
Lot´s of places are mastering with this stuff. IMHO, Colombian artist Carlos Vives´s last CD "El Rock de mi Pueblo" sounds incredibly beautifull. This was mastered at Nautilus Mastering by Engineer Antonio Baglio. I AM NOT SURE! but you may email tham and ask, I heard they used System 6000 to master and I´ve heard Baglio uses it a lot!

www.carlosvives.com
http://www.nautilusmastering.it/en/index.html

If I where you, I´ll first decide how much to spend. I personally think more options will be obtained with different brands and machines. If you are plannig to buy a 960, it seems you have $ to spend, so why don´t you try:

H-8000 for EFX´s U$5500
2 Yamaha´s for Drums U$2000
TC Reverb 4000 U$2500
Lexicon PCM U$2000

This will give you a total of 12000.

What do you prefer??????????????

The list above or a Lexicon 960L Digital?

I know the Lexicon is a really nice device, but, Pop and Rock, pitchshifting and lot´s of stuff? I´ll go for the 12000 list! By the way, you can work surround on the H-8000, am I right?

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

PUPO
Old 1st July 2005
  #25
Lives for gear
 
syra's Avatar
I own an H8000 and recently have spent some quality time with a TC6000.

IMO Convolution plugs are at least just as good. Altiverb and TL Space sound phenomenal.

Outboard all the way for dynamics and Eqs but reverberation(?)...plugs are right on.
Old 2nd July 2005
  #26
theother
Guest
TC? They left the good algorithms out of the plugin versions.

The ones I care about you can find only in the TC hardware.

As for the 960L.... It's a piece of ****e! I don't want one for free.

I sold mine at a big loss and got the good old 480L back. You can't beat that!

Anyone saying that the 960L is better or as good as the 480L must be deaf. Sounds as thin as a PT plugin to me. Hell, if it works for you.....

Reverbs I like:

480L
224XL
224
EMT250
EMT140
EMT240
Eventide Princeton 2016
TC6000
UAD-1 EMT plate
AMS-RMX-16
Yamaha SREV-1
Quantec
Old 2nd July 2005
  #27
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Tetness's Avatar
Thanks for your comments. I'm going to demo an Eventide h8000. Meanwhile, i will hunt down a Lexicon 480L. If anyone has any info regarding one, please let me know. As far as my stupid comments about "1s" and "0s"...well, we all put our foot in our mouths sometimes. Whoops. I'm not a tech-genius. I just love beatuiful sounding music and am on a quest to get my gear as top notch as I can, so that I can possibly create some of my own. I don't like it when people on threads get slammed, it creates a fear and makes them reluctant to post threads or reply to them. If you're too afriad to ask a stupid question, then there's where your stupidity lies. Roundbadge, thanks for the backup fire.
Old 2nd July 2005
  #28
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theother
As for the 960L.... It's a piece of ****e! I don't want one for free.
Anyone saying that the 960L is better or as good as the 480L must be deaf. Sounds as thin as a PT plugin to me. Hell, if it works for you.....
That's what I kinda get a kick out of with all this gear available, one man's pleasure is another man's poison! I don't doubt that the 960L was "****e" for someone else, many verbs that I hear positive comments about are really not good for me either ( bought and sold a TC2000 so fast that it would make your head spin....thought it was worthless....but still use my TC5000, go figure)
Now when it comes to the 960L I really don't want to mix without one. I've had one for about two years now and find that for my style of music (acoustic, roots, folk, blues and some rough and tumble rock) the 960L does exactly what I want an fx box to do...give me ambiences and halls, programable delays and keep the heck outa the way. I did spend a lot of time adjusting parameters until I got a set of "go to" presets and got comfortable with the unit. I really don't do a lot of pop/rock/hip hop etc. where the 480 really excels, if I did I'd certainly want one. Still use my original 224 (thank God for Jim Fabiano) and the TC5000 "kitpig" is always handy to have around. I also find that with the 960L an EQ on the return is sometimes necessary to tailor it to the track. It is so clear and deep that sometimes you gotta add some "mud" . If I really want thick and a little "rough" the 224 does that in spades.
Oh, having four engines in the 960L is an absolute dream. Expensive...abso f'n lutely. But I don't regret a penny. Cheap verbs just sound cheap to me. Man, I started on Fisher K10's, and if know what those are you'll understand why I think that the top end boxes today are pretty amazing.
Cheers, Rick
Old 2nd July 2005
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Hello Lindell, I don't see where I strayed off topic in my previous posts, it was a direct answer to the questions posted by "Tetness" :

"Anyway H8000, TC6000 or 960L What are their pros and cans? How much better do they sound than plug-ins?".

I didn't speak about H8000 or 960L only about TC 6000. It was in no way meant as a software vs. hardware thing at all, it was meant as another perspective on the question being asked.

And what I said is true, the quality differences between digital hardware and software is becoming smaller every day, and some software even surpasses the quality of some "high-end" hardware, especially since most software is capable of running at 192k.
Old 2nd July 2005
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge
Mastering? ..Wow ..I have a bunch of the urs stuff [late night impulse buy]
to me the Fulltec sounds like cardboard compared to real ones..I'm using EQh2's a lot lately on the buss,
and no plugin comes remotely close to the mojo these things add to the signal.
even with no EQ added.
Haven't heard the Algorithmix stuff .
plug EQ's haven't impressed me so far.usefull when I'm out of O/B stuff..but not first choice.
the Altiverb was a real letdown as well..A/b'd some 960L/PCm81/91 patches to the impulse versions and the I/R's just sounded smaller W/ less depth than the real boxes.
Is the Waves IR-1 any better?
I'm of course not saying that the fulltec is like the real ANALOG thing, but I was comparing to the TC6000, and this eq is as good as anything available from TC in my opinion (actually I like it better).

You're right regarding the convolution reverbs, an impulse of a reverb unit such as TC6000 or 960 will not sound as good as the actual unit, BUT a good inpulse of a real space will sound better/more real than any artificial reverb in my opinon.
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