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Calling all G'tar players!!!
Old 29th June 2005
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
cultureofgreed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayridge
Here's my 2 cents
1) Get a strobe tuner (or a peterson virtual strobe). There's some kind of sympathetic vibrations that happen only when you are really in tune... I guess... whatever, it sounds better; way better.

A good friend of mine wont use a tuner past his "A" string. He argues that no guitar can be perfectly in tune throughout all six strings when using an electronic tuner. The strings maybe in tune with themselves, but the guitar is not in tune as a whole. All guitars have flaws/characters in their intonation that can be very subtle but are there none the less. He trusts his good ear and knowledge of how his guitar tunes over any tuner.

I use a tuner. But hell, my friend does have great ears and is always balls on.
Old 29th June 2005
  #32
Gear Nut
 

Not Quite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz
Oh for fox's sakes, enough of the talent cop out . The talent's there fuuck . It's a controled variable in my equation. How come when somone chimes in on a vocal thread about signal processing everyone makes decent progress with little mention of the "talent" word. I'm not on a quest for the holy grail here just some different approaches to recording the guitar! Let's pretend player x can actually play the focking thing! I'm interested in the high end gear used to capture the talent. Once again, for the sake of my sanity, if you'd like to share your latest guitar signal process, then chain away!

cool as,
bloodz fuuck
I personaly use a 74 Les Paul custom into a Fulltone 69,into a Maverick with some kind of analog delay in the feedback loop,the current delay is a maxon AD 999 though the old Ibanez are nice.I usualy mic it with a 57 into an API.Sometimes I add a Crybaby 535 Q after the Fulltone,I'd buy anthing Mike Fuller makes by the way.


And shredding is to real music what weight lifting is to real to masculinity.....
absolutely nothing.
Old 29th June 2005
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cultureofgreed
A good friend of mine wont use a tuner past his "A" string. He argues that no guitar can be perfectly in tune throughout all six strings when using an electronic tuner. The strings maybe in tune with themselves, but the guitar is not in tune as a whole. All guitars have flaws/characters in their intonation that can be very subtle but are there none the less. He trusts his good ear and knowledge of how his guitar tunes over any tuner.

I use a tuner. But hell, my friend does have great ears and is always balls on.
I'd expect that to be right,the guitar is not tempered like a piano and no two guitars are exactly the same ,same strings same intonation ect.....
Old 29th June 2005
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wm_b
The whole Nirvana/Boston scratching between chords really washes out the drumer
That scratching is the coolest thing about Boston(along with the harmonizing guitars).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz
Oh for fox's sakes, enough of the talent cop out
Amen.
Old 29th June 2005
  #35
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max cooper's Avatar
 

I don't use standard tuning anymore. That way, when I sit down to write I'm not likely to bang out Stones and Kinks riffs for hours (which is what I end up doing if I'm in standard tuning.)

From years and years of playing, my hands are drawn to patterns, so different tunings really help me write things that sound good to me, rather than things that feel comfortable to play.

It's been the best thing that happened to my guitar playing.
Old 29th June 2005
  #36
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz
I'm interested in the high end gear used to capture the talent. Once again, for the sake of my sanity, if you'd like to share your latest guitar signal process, then chain away!
Here we go, some things I used that made a difference for me:

- George L cables:

Great between effects but in a recording session you might try them for all connections, they really do sound great and clear up the sound without any added harshness.

- Chandler TG-2:

THE guitar pre, awesome, amazing, all the hype is true! Don't be afraid to drive the input hard.

- Boomerang Phrase Sampler:

A fantastic looper, great practice tool, I barely scratched the surface yet and I had the thing for about 4 years now.
It's a godsend when working on my own: What I do is make a loop with the part I'm gonna record and then let it play back at the same volume that the 'real' playing will be at. This lets me check mic positions, pres, comps,etc as long as needed to get exactly what I want, with the Boomerang happily fiddling away for as long as I want.

- POD, Mini Twin, Danelectro Honey Tone:

As much as I love my amps (a great 1971 Marshall Super Lead among them) there are times when these toys are perfect. ESPECIALLY in combination with other parts recorded with real/bigger amps. Recording a part thru a mini amp can give you an amazingly focused sound in the mix.


- Wood floors:

It really makes a difference, like with drums a lot of the sound is coming off the floor reflextion.


- 'Nuked' room:

Ditto drums. Sometimes, especially with a distorted Marshall sound, I will set up a 414 B/ULS or Beyer M260 facing a corner and hook up a 1176 set to all-in mode.
But any comp will do, just compress the living daylights out of the signal and mix it underneath the main track(s). Between this and the TG-2, I never missed tape in any way.


-Direct injection:

My big discovery lately: We all had the experience of plugging a guitar directly into say a Mackie board and being extremely depressed about the resulting sound.
Frankly, I never bothered with DI guitars until recently. Having the right gear makes all the difference though, for once. A great DI like the one in the Little Labs IBP and the Analog Man BiComprossor pedal made me change my mind.
Very often, for clean sounds especially, this will result in sounds that fit very organically into the mix.


-No outboard EQ:

Why? Your amp has EQ, you usually got volume and tone controls on your axe and most importantly: You got the best EQ ever right there IN YOUR HANDS.
That's what i find so amazing about the guitar, you can get pretty much any shading and harmonic content by simply changing your playing position, pick, angle of the attack, etc

This brings us back to playing really, Im afraid. So in the end IT'S THE PLAYER.


P.S: I didn't read the whole of this thread but as far as tuning is concerned:
By far the most difficult thing IMO is fretting in tune. Your guitar might be in tune (or better said, your open strings are in tune) You also might have set the intonation of the upper frets, good. But what about actually playing? That's where the trouble starts and a lot of players also don't get the concept that distortion will enhance certain harmonics and therefore changes the harmonc content of your chords. This can be a cool thing but sometimes it's also a fast ticket to disaster.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch
Old 29th June 2005
  #37
Lek
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Lek's Avatar
 

Regarding attenuators, especially in jamming situations, I hated THD hotplates. They changed the tone and compressed the sound. Weber was a little better, but by far the most transparent attenuator is the Dr. Z airbrake designed by Ken Fischer. It is transparent down a few knobs. However, even the airbrake will start sounding fizzy at bedroom levels.
Old 29th June 2005
  #38
Gear Nut
 
Bloodz's Avatar
 

Good discussion fellas, thanks. I think this thread would be twice as effective if we posted the recording process for the last guitar you recorded. Maybe start by explaining the tone you were looking for and what lead to successfuly accomplishing that sound. Maybe you got there, maybe you didn't but it might stir up a fresh approach for your next track. I've just recently raised my pickups (as close to the strings as possible) while also inverting the phase so when my toggel is in the middle position the pickups are out of phase. I play british inspired rock, (Radiohead, travis, Coldplay ect....) I prefer clean slightly overdriven tone. Havn't got the guitar back yet but I'm hoping for big things.

cool as,

bloodz
Old 29th June 2005
  #39
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

I've actually done the exact opposite with my pup's,
lowering them.

Latest setup: Fender strat ->Klotz Signature->BJF HB->Klotz-> Budda Head

Setup with fx: Carl Martin comp->Ibanez TS9(1981)->Effector13 TBD->
Loooper box with MXR flanger and EH MemoryMan ->
BJF Honey Bee-> Pedalworx Booster.

Same guitar and amp.

Recording chain: EV635 ->Nagra-> Digidesign 192, plus
Blue Cactus-> Avalon M4-> Digidesign 192

I set up an extra output bus from the close miked 635, feeding
an MS20 filter with a peaking hi pass; gives body, adjusted to taste.
In addition, varied fx while mixing.
If I want to centre/combine the two miked signals, I use a phase tool.


ruudman
Old 29th June 2005
  #40
Gear Nut
 
Bloodz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman
I've actually done the exact opposite with my pup's,
lowering them.

Latest setup: Fender strat ->Klotz Signature->BJF HB->Klotz-> Budda Head

Setup with fx: Carl Martin comp->Ibanez TS9(1981)->Effector13 TBD->
Loooper box with MXR flanger and EH MemoryMan ->
BJF Honey Bee-> Pedalworx Booster.

Same guitar and amp.

Recording chain: EV635 ->Nagra-> Digidesign 192, plus
Blue Cactus-> Avalon M4-> Digidesign 192

I set up an extra output bus from the close miked 635, feeding
an MS20 filter with a peaking hi pass; gives body, adjusted to taste.
In addition, varied fx while mixing.
If I want to centre/combine the to miked signals, I use a phase tool.


ruudman
Now that's the kind of post i'm talking about!! Good form Ruudman!

Loud cheers brotha!
Old 29th June 2005
  #41
Gear Addict
 

I've been building and modding amps and playing guitar for 30+years. And it sure is fun to tweak things out. But I also believe most of it is in the fingers.

Having said that a good sounding rig is certainly icing on the cake and you don't want to degrade the sound that you're fingers are producing with a bad setup.

I think the only "secret" is to make sure your tubes aren't worn out, you have a decent speaker(s) (it never pays to skimp here), use decent cabling, make sure if the amp is old the electrlytic caps are replaced (this can make a huge difference),
the amp is biased properly, you have reasonably new strings (not the ones on sale for $2.95 a set) and keep the number of pedals to 0, 1 or maybe two.
Controls should be cleaned if noisy (if they are noisy they are dirty and dirty controls degrade the tone).
Some amps don't seem to respond without a little kick on the front end from a booster.
Old 29th June 2005
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Amplove's Avatar
 

A real 122 Leslie will certainly change your life...for a while. A real one...a real one...a real one...a real one.

oh...and a tube echoplex will change your life...for a long time.

and being able to turn up that 50 watt plexi up to full volume will definately change your life forever.

j.
Old 29th June 2005
  #43
Lives for gear
 
enharmonic's Avatar
 

Snake Oil Strings will be that extra 2% that you hav ebeen chasing after for years, and the 2% that has eluded you for years. I will not play electric with anything else.

http://www.sobstrings.net/index.htm

I use 11-56 with a wound G.

Tonal serets...well...some things have to remain a secret...lol...but the core of my tone when it comes to gear is:

Terry C McInturff FLE (forum limited edition)
Wizard Amplification - Modern Classic 100, and matching 4x12 w/ UK Greenbacks
NOS glass
Old 30th June 2005
  #44
Lives for gear
 

Tone is in the fingers of course, having said that, a smart rig will translate your "fingers" and even enhance it.

My theory is to keep it simple. Unfortunately this can cost quite a bit of dough. Here's why:

My theory is to get the best sound you can from your guitar and amp with nothing in between. I also believe driving output tubes lends itself to dynamics much better than preamp tubes. And dynamics come from the "fingers" - so the idea is to translate that to your speakers.

You need a damn good amp for this and a great piece of wood. I run a Marshall 18watt HW (1974x) with either a R8 or a CS Tele with nocaster pups. The amp cleans up incredibly when I soften my pick attack and gets nasty when I bite hard. This really accentuates my "finger" tone. I hate hotplates etc and think it's wiser to choose an amp that suits your needs and crank her. It also helps not using hot pups, you get more OD out of your amp and less fuzz IE: balls.

So to answer your original question here's my ideal recording:

Les Paul R8-->Marshall 18w-->good quality LDC (I use a tlm 127) 18" from the amp in a good room-->TG Channel-->Apogee-->PT

On Lead solo's I love an 1176 to bring out more of the room and sustain the sustain

I should add that any GOOD tube amp can get the job done dynamically. For marshalls I like the HW series. Fenders are great, and depending on your style I prefer valve rectification. I have a RI Vibroverb brown face with NOS tubes and modded rectifiation that sounds great (depending on the Fender amp, switching out speakers can help...I like webers personally). Tone Lizard is another great amp (I love the route 66 with the KT66 tubes) I recorded with that once with a strat and nothing in between and it sound big - surprised myself there.

Ok...I'll shut up now - oh except to bump the the snake oil strings - they're great and last forever...I've been using those for ten years. And here's a little secret if ya didn't know...11 guage strings or higher will make any POS guitar sound good. That's the difference - a great guitar sounds good even with 9's (but I preffer 10's)
Old 30th June 2005
  #45
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
I run a Marshall 18watt HW (1974x)
Man, I've been GASing for that one thumbsup
Do you find those gbacks bright?
Someone who tested it for a magazine, concluded with that.
But I don't want to believe it! I just want them to be creamy

ruudman
Old 30th June 2005
  #46
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DrFrankencopter's Avatar
If you want an 18 W marshall, check out www.18watt.com. There's tons of kits out there, and if you can figure out which end of a soldering iron to pick up you can most likely build one.

I built one (18W TMB, lots of boutique caps and resistors, in a 2X12 combo), and yes it's a great sounding amp, very responsive to dynamics, in fact I've given up on drive pedals, and channel switching. I find with the 18W you just concentrate on the song, and play harder when you want it to break up. There's a certain sweet spot on the controls where the sound can go from clean to crunch based on playing dynamics without a huge volume change. Very natural, very good sounding. I run my 18W with a Weber attenuator...basically, all knobs up at 12 o'clock (including the attenuator), and the this amp is ready to rock. 18W is still plenty loud, even with the attenuator there's enough room to overpower a drum kit (really depends on the speakers you choose). I'll likely build another one, but with more of an AC-15 vibe (different Xformers, and EF86 input stage) than a plexi.

Cheers,

Kris
Old 30th June 2005
  #47
Lek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter
If you want an 18 W marshall, check out www.18watt.com. There's tons of kits out there, and if you can figure out which end of a soldering iron to pick up you can most likely build one.

I built one (18W TMB, lots of boutique caps and resistors, in a 2X12 combo), and yes it's a great sounding amp, very responsive to dynamics, in fact I've given up on drive pedals, and channel switching. I find with the 18W you just concentrate on the song, and play harder when you want it to break up. There's a certain sweet spot on the controls where the sound can go from clean to crunch based on playing dynamics without a huge volume change. Very natural, very good sounding. I run my 18W with a Weber attenuator...basically, all knobs up at 12 o'clock (including the attenuator), and the this amp is ready to rock. 18W is still plenty loud, even with the attenuator there's enough room to overpower a drum kit (really depends on the speakers you choose). I'll likely build another one, but with more of an AC-15 vibe (different Xformers, and EF86 input stage) than a plexi.

Cheers,

Kris
I use a 1968 plexi with prerola greenbacks, but often talk to my friend Ozzie at Blockhead amps. They are a boutique amp manufacturer of vintage handwired marshall replicas. He told me that the cost of the parts that he uses is more than the kits you can buy. Not saying that the kits aren't good, but I'd check out some of the boutique amps as well.
Old 30th June 2005
  #48
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DrFrankencopter's Avatar
Quote:
I use a 1968 plexi with prerola greenbacks, but often talk to my friend Ozzie at Blockhead amps. They are a boutique amp manufacturer of vintage handwired marshall replicas. He told me that the cost of the parts that he uses is more than the kits you can buy. Not saying that the kits aren't good, but I'd check out some of the boutique amps as well.
Oh yeah, it's definitely possible to put some boutique parts into an amp. The one I built (not from a kit, but I did get the chassis and cabinet from kit suppliers) had clarostat RV4 pots, high quality caps (sprauge,solen,REL,MIT and black gates), Holco and Riken resistors, teflon wire, shielding everywhere. Incredible sound, zero noise...its an absolute joy to record this amp.



But, I think the boutique parts are really just the icing on the cake. The circuit design, layout, transformers and speakers is where the real meat of the sound is. Most of the kits out there come with good transformers. There's not a doubt in my mind that the kits out there are at least as good as the Marshall HW series stuff. Boutique builders, that's a different story. If you know what you're doing, and like to tinker you can build something at least as good (though not from a kit)...but it takes some know-how (or alot of luck) and a willingness to experiment.

Here's a pic of the completed amp plus my R8...


Cheers,

Kris
Old 30th June 2005
  #49
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wallace's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qtuner
here is a closely guarded secret of mine

Finally, shredding modes for 7 hours a day is really bad practicing. You play like you practice. So if all your doing is running up and down scales, chances are when it comes time to perform, you're gonna sound like you're playing modes, hence boring. Try stepping back and creating melodies with as few notes as possible. Some of the best melodies are only one note.
It's also nice to practice playing melodies and scales on one string only (up and down the g string, then b string, then e string, etc.) Think up and down the neck.
Old 30th June 2005
  #50
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Quote:
Do you find those gbacks bright?
Nope, not at all. As a matter of fact I can stick a mic in the middle of the cone without any harshness at all. The review must hve been for a different speaker.

Actually, the main reason I went for the 1974x (instead of clone) WAS because of the speaker. Celestian used a process on the speaker to recreate the effect that aging has on speakers that is apparent in the sound of pre-rola speakers. This speaker is exclusive to the 1974x (unfortunately). This speaker MAKES the amp. Really, the amp is pedestrian w/o this speaker.
Old 30th June 2005
  #51
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

JUST what I wanted to hear

ruudman
Old 30th June 2005
  #52
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DrFrankencopter's Avatar
Quote:
This speaker MAKES the amp. Really, the amp is pedestrian w/o this speaker.
I don't doubt that the aged celestion is a special sounding speaker, but trust me, the 18W is not a pedestrian sounding amp. Pair it up with any good speaker/cab and it'll work it's magic (different magic, but magic still...). It's partly the way the phase inverter is overdriven, partly the output transformer...it's just a rockin' design, and that's why there are so many clones of it.

Have you tried it into a Celstion alnico blue? Nice and bright without being shrill, good volume and dynamics. I paired mine with a Blue and a 12GH30 (deep and dark, kinda 70s rock sounding), and it sounds incredible...same adjectives you used to describe your amp. I'd love a chance to try out one of those aged Celestions...but they don't sell them to anyone except Marshall. Maybe Marshall will make a cab loaded with them some time....

Cheers,

Kris
Old 30th June 2005
  #53
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Stav's Mixing With Your Mind has some unusual (to me anyway) suggestions for miking cabinets. I haven't implemented all of of his suggestions, but it has gotten me to approach mic selection and positioning in a new and different way. I highly recommend the book if you have not yet read it.

The less distortion I use, the easier it is for me to get a sound that works. Especially for rhythm parts. Layering several lightly overdriven tracks works better for me that one or two highly distorted tracks. If you need bone crushing distortion for the style or genre, then of course you gotta have it. But if it's really the power and sustain you are after, less overdrive combined with timing, harmonic choices, arrangement, articulation, and creative mixing can work wonders. YMMV.

What you don't play is just as important as what you do.

I like to use a compression pedal for slight compression before going into the amp, especially for cleaner sounds. MXR Dyna Comp with the compression knob only 1/4 of the way up. Otherwise the dynamic range of my playing is too great.

I use 11's. Bigger string = better tone. Easier to tune and keep in tune. Less likely to get nudged out of tune if chord fingering is less than precise.

My action is not super low. 6 or 7 64ths of an inch (between top of 12th fret and bottom of string) on the low E and 5 64ths on the high E. I go with the highest action I can stand for better tone.

Intonation is key. I rely on a Peterson VS1 for setup and tuning. And, call me anal, but I retune every few minutes, or after each take if a lot of string bending is involved.

A Royer R121 is a wonderful thing.
Old 30th June 2005
  #54
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter
IMaybe Marshall will make a cab loaded with them some time....
Cheers,
Kris
They DO make an extension cab for the 1974

ruudman
Old 30th June 2005
  #55
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Quote:
I don't doubt that the aged celestion is a special sounding speaker, but trust me, the 18W is not a pedestrian sounding amp
No not pedestrian... I exagerate. .

Ahh since I'm sitting here I'll take a pic:

Old 1st July 2005
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
cultureofgreed's Avatar
 

Nice spread of tone there kats.
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