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Lexicon PCM42 In 500 Series
Old 30th January 2009
  #1
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Lexicon PCM42 In 500 Series

One thing that is missing in today's gear market is the good old Lexicon PCM42. Nothing does what the PCM42 does with it's simplicity, sound, and the limiter on the input. Why can't someone clone the thing and put it in a 500 series format? Would anyone else like to see this?
Old 30th January 2009
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
One thing that is missing in today's gear market is the good old Lexicon PCM42. Nothing does what the PCM42 does with it's simplicity, sound, and the limiter on the input. Why can't someone clone the thing and put it in a 500 series format? Would anyone else like to see this?
You do realize you are talking about cloning a digital unit right?

Part of the problem with cloning any pre 90's effect unit is the sound of the converters. Alot of these units were built around the sound of the converters themselves. The companies who didn't like what was available designed their own converters(Quantec for example). Also these units were designed to interface with the analog console technology of the time so they were tested and tried as so as a system. Today everything is designed around DAW's so there isn't just one converter that everyone uses.

Lexicon still has the technology available to reissue a PCM 42 if they wanted. The problem is that it won't sound the same(to some it will be better & to others they will pick it apart like moi for example) because of the converters.
Old 30th January 2009
  #3
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Knox's Avatar
 

Grab a used Yamaha D5000. Of course not on topic for a '500 series' unit, but if you are seeking a great ddl, you can't go wrong with it
Old 30th January 2009
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
You do realize you are talking about cloning a digital unit right?
Hahaheh The fact that it says PCM42 Digital Delay on the front might have clued me in
Old 30th January 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Lexicon still has the technology available to reissue a PCM 42 if they wanted. The problem is that it won't sound the same(to some it will be better & to others they will pick it apart like moi for example) because of the converters.
I wish they would. I had decided to sell my last PCM42 (which is really clean with super low hours), but didn't find a suitable alternative for that sound and functionality. I checked out the PSP plug that many claim "nail it", but it just didn't sound like a PCM42 and didn't do the limiter thing either. I think it would be cool to have a 500 series PCM42. I could go for 4.
Old 30th January 2009
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Lexicon still has the technology available to reissue a PCM 42 if they wanted. The problem is that it won't sound the same(to some it will be better & to others they will pick it apart like moi for example) because of the converters.
Not true, as far as the modulation goes. This was dependent on the older converter technology.

Funny story. A plugin manufacturer made a 42 clone. To their credit they ran it by Lexicon for a sonic thumbs up. I got the call to go do the A/B with a real 42. After a day of comparison, my comment was; ehh, not so much.

Next month I see an ad; buy our plugin, approved by Lexicon engineers.



-Casey
Old 30th January 2009
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
I wish they would. I had decided to sell my last PCM42 (which is really clean with super low hours), but didn't find a suitable alternative for that sound and functionality. I checked out the PSP plug that many claim "nail it", but it just didn't sound like a PCM42 and didn't do the limiter thing either. I think it would be cool to have a 500 series PCM42. I could go for 4.
I told everyone here years ago that the PSP plug in just didn't have that "thing" that a PCM 42 has sonically and people called me nuts . The only modern unit i found that sonically was close is the Symetrix 606 but it doesn't blend the same with the vocals. If you need something short with no regenaration there is also the 1300S and i am sure if you find one it will still be intact for a while.
Old 30th January 2009
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Not true, as far as the modulation goes. This was dependent on the older converter technology.
Wow interesting. Did not think consider that one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Funny story. A plugin manufacturer made a 42 clone. To their credit they ran it by Lexicon for a sonic thumbs up. I got the call to go do the A/B with a real 42. After a day of comparison, my comment was; ehh, not so much.

Next month I see an ad; buy our plugin, approved by Lexicon engineers.



-Casey
Old 30th January 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Wow interesting. Did not think consider that one.
Yeah, the 42 is truly an inspired work of art. Brilliant design.



-Casey
Old 30th January 2009
  #10
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Forget the 500 series... it would be great to see the rack version PCM42 on the market again at a somewhat affordable price. But, it will never happen.
Old 30th January 2009
  #11
Gear Addict
 

I've heard ace guitar tones through a rig which pushed signal thorugh a PCM 42, but with no delay at all. When the PCM is bypassed, something was just missing.

Considering that the best part of the 42 isn't even the delay, but what it does to a guitar in the FX loop before the power amp...why not a PCM stomp box that doesn't even feature delay?

THAT would be the definitive Klon of the 21st century.
Old 31st January 2009
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Anybody know how many milliseconds the Lex 1300S does and is it really useful if it doesn't have any regeneration or modulation?
Old 31st January 2009
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by petys View Post
Anybody know how many milliseconds the Lex 1300S does and is it really useful if it doesn't have any regeneration or modulation?
There are 4 levers on the front of the 1300 that go from 0 to 9 so you can get a long enough delay in it. And is it useful? Heck yeah. Its a great unit to have around for a nice pre delay with character into plug in reverbs if you like. Also works just as well with outboard analog(EMT 140) or digital reverb units. Another great use which i use it for(I have 2 of them) is for 150ms slap back to fit a vocal softly in the center. Not too much of it but just enough and its sits the voice nicely.

There are 2 versions the 1300 and 1300S. Biggest difference are the XLR inputs and the S is stereo. Price wise they've started to go up unfortunately because of this site and how people price gouge based on what is said here. Look around for some A/V auctions and you should be able to pick it up for around $75.
Old 31st January 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post

Forget the 500 series... it would be great to see the rack version PCM42 on the market again at a somewhat affordable price. But, it will never happen.
Indeed! Sure would be great if someone was able to "reissue" the PCM42, regardless of chassis size / configuration. And I wouldn't even care if it is expensive... would just be great to be able to have access to "new" PCM42 units. I'm so tired of dealing with old units that have issues and are generally unreliable.

Just about every important "classic" piece of gear has been either reissued or revived, Universal Audio stuff (1176, LA-2A, LA-3, etc), Neve 1073s etc, API 550As, etc, etc, etc... all done very successfully... the PCM42 is clearly a "classic" part of studio history and extremely popular, I think a PCM42 reissue would do very well.

If a PCM42 reissue should ever come into existence and actually sound and function like it should, I'll surely buy a few. (Note: I publicly said the same thing regarding the LA-3A years before they were reissued... and the moment they were, I bought several)... so, come on, someone out there, get to work, reissue the PCM42!!! I'll certainly buy a few!!!
Old 31st January 2009
  #15
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If you need to get by a in a pinch..A Roland SDE 3000 delay unit with a dbx desser in front of it or after it(i forgot what I liked)works really well.LVoc..A++
Old 31st January 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Indeed! Sure would be great if someone was able to "reissue" the PCM42, regardless of chassis size / configuration. And I wouldn't even care if it is expensive... would just be great to be able to have access to "new" PCM42 units. I'm so tired of dealing with old units that have issues and are generally unreliable.
Looking at everything involved, I'm convinced that refurbing original 42s would be more cost effective. The biggest challenge then becomes one of sourcing the difficult to obtain parts, as opposed to developing a whole new product.

It feels better to restore a classic, than to trash it and start over anyway.

But you are right, there is a demand. We get asked all the time.



-Casey
Old 31st January 2009
  #17
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Drumsound's Avatar
`How do the PCM 42 and 41 compare in sound? I know the 42 had longer delay times, and the digital display for delay time, but is the a/d d/a similar sounding? I love my 41!
Old 31st January 2009
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
But you are right, there is a demand. We get asked all the time.
There's our solution - Casey should incorporate the basic functionality and sound of the PCM42 into his Bricasti M7. An idea for Version 3, perhaps? Or maybe already part of Ver2???

You put some great effects (a la the 42) into the M7 and I'd be powerless against the urge to throw one into my shopping cart.
Old 31st January 2009
  #19
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Casey should...
Even if the sound could be nailed, would you still leave a $3700 processor in the rack just to do two 42s?



-Casey
Old 31st January 2009
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Indeed! Sure would be great if someone was able to "reissue" the PCM42, regardless of chassis size / configuration. And I wouldn't even care if it is expensive... would just be great to be able to have access to "new" PCM42 units. I'm so tired of dealing with old units that have issues and are generally unreliable.

Just about every important "classic" piece of gear has been either reissued or revived, Universal Audio stuff (1176, LA-2A, LA-3, etc), Neve 1073s etc, API 550As, etc, etc, etc... all done very successfully... the PCM42 is clearly a "classic" part of studio history and extremely popular, I think a PCM42 reissue would do very well.

If a PCM42 reissue should ever come into existence and actually sound and function like it should, I'll surely buy a few. (Note: I publicly said the same thing regarding the LA-3A years before they were reissued... and the moment they were, I bought several)... so, come on, someone out there, get to work, reissue the PCM42!!! I'll certainly buy a few!!!
The problem is in the fact that on alot of the older digital machines the sound & limitations of the analog sections plus the converters have become part of the sound we've all grown to love.

Look at every reissue of a digtal classic from the SDX-330(reissue of the sdd-320), the Princeton Digital 2016(reissue of the SP2016), the Dynatron 255(reissue of the EMT 250), SST-206(reissue of the Ursa Space Station), Quantec Yardstick(Quantec QRS) and the H910 (algo in the H3000 and every other Eventide unit after). While they are all useful in their own way none sound exactly like the originals and lack that something that made the originals so sought after. Now that doesn't stop them from being used and incorporated in a studio setup.

In some cases there are improvements(the new stereo rooms in the Princeton Digital, the new reverb algos in the SSt-906, the old Yamaha SPX algos sound killer in the SPX 2000) and the fact that some units can be interfaced digitally in a modern DAW hybrid setup. One company that did do it right is TC Electronics. There delay algos tranfer really well from unit to unit and have the same character all the way back to the 2290. I think the Line 6 echo pro is a great unit & really useful(but its lack of digital ins/outs is a drawback).
Old 31st January 2009
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
`How do the PCM 42 and 41 compare in sound? I know the 42 had longer delay times, and the digital display for delay time, but is the a/d d/a similar sounding? I love my 41!
Different sound.

No limiter on the PCM 41. On the 1300 you can have option of having a comp in the circuit or out.
Old 31st January 2009
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Even if the sound could be nailed, would you still leave a $3700 processor in the rack just to do two 42s?



-Casey
The 42 emulation would merely be gravy - the rest of the potatoes would still be there at the flick of a switch (press of a button, twist of a knob, whatever it be).

Anyway, I think we'd expect you to take the 42 and plus it...
Old 31st January 2009
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Anyway, I think we'd expect you to take the 42 and plus it...
Yeah, I think thats just it. If you are going out to do something like delays, I think you go out and make the next classic.

Why reinvent the wheel when 42s are still plentiful? It would be very hard to get it right, as was pointed out upthread. I know I would be happier with a real 42 brought up to spec, if I wanted a 42.

That's why I think someone could make a great bussiness out of refurbing them, assuming the market is there and you are capable of sourcing the parts.

As I said before, it's a great design, worthy of some craftsmans attention.



-Casey
Old 1st February 2009
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
One thing that is missing in today's gear market is the good old Lexicon PCM42. Nothing does what the PCM42 does with it's simplicity, sound, and the limiter on the input. Why can't someone clone the thing and put it in a 500 series format? Would anyone else like to see this?
i 100% agree with you. but as far as i know cloning the thing is impossible because the IC's used there aren't being made for ages and they are a crucial part of the PCM42 sound..
Old 2nd February 2009
  #25
outofphase
Guest
The line 6 Echo Pro emulates vintage delays, I guess the PCM42 was included in their list.
Old 2nd February 2009
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Look at every reissue of a digtal classic from the SDX-330(reissue of the sdd-320),
Just for the record, the SDD-320 was totally analog and the SDX-330 was fully digital.
Old 12th February 2009
  #27
theother
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outofphase View Post
The line 6 Echo Pro emulates vintage delays, I guess the PCM42 was included in their list.
I have the Echo Pro and some originals it tries to emulate. The Echo Pro is not even in the ballpark.

I still like the Echo Pro for what it is. But it doesn't replace my originals.

I haven't found anything that sounds like a PCM42, Korg SDD2000, AMS DMX, Fulltone TTE. There is just nothing that comes close...
Old 13th February 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
If you need something short with no regenaration there is also the 1300S
How do you use the regeneration on a vocal Thrill?
Old 1st June 2012
  #29
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No regen on the 1300/S Straight Broadcast Delay w/PCM42/200/PrimeTime Limiting - See the quote you erm.......... QUOTED! 1300 has a Beautiful thick gooey warm delay though Just lush & lovely! (Chain into the 1300 and you do get - RE-GEN!)

Straight Delay by Counter/Clacker numbers (Like a tape machine Counter.)
TLB.

Last edited by TheLastByte; 1st June 2012 at 09:32 PM.. Reason: Another classic old thread - revived in 2012!!!!!!
Old 1st June 2012
  #30
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rob S's Avatar
I would just love a 500 series delay. It could be a boss DM2 for all i care.
Doesnt have to be crazy pcm 42.
Bucket brigade with delay,feedback, mix and a tone knob and im in.
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