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Yet another Portico thread!!!! : )
Old 26th June 2005
  #1
Portico tape channel

If anyone cares after the crap going down with the other Protico thread I though I would toss this out there...

I sent an email today from the rupertneve.com site asking about the availability of the new tape channel and here is the reply (same day.. that is a good sign, a Sunday no less).

Quote:
Michael,
The 5042 Tape FX/Line Amp will have an introductory price of $1435 and the first units are due to roll off of the production line this week.

Best regards,

(name deleted to protect the innocent)
Vice President
Sales and Strategic Alliances
Very cool. Really looking forward to some reviews if anyone hears one of these in person.
Old 26th June 2005
  #2
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kevinc's Avatar
 

thumbsup

Awesome !

Being a big fan of the FATSO I`m kind of anxious to hear what the Neve unit can do.
Old 27th June 2005
  #3
Gear Addict
 
krid's Avatar
 

Who is going to buy one and write the 1st report on gearslutz ?

We need a new 10 pages Portico thread heh
Old 27th June 2005
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
Who is going to buy one and write the 1st report on gearslutz ?

We need a new 10 pages Portico thread heh
LOL

Anyway in my eyes this is the product that I have been waiting for of the new stuff. I have a bunch of nice pres already but a really good harware tape channel would be a great thing. That is something missing in the market that would sure find a nice home in many a studio I believe.

I hear a few demo units are out there now and the people using them for testing are refusing to turn them back in, that is a good sign.
Old 27th June 2005
  #5
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
Who is going to buy one and write the 1st report on gearslutz ?

We need a new 10 pages Portico thread heh

I plan on hearing it asap and will post.

(the design is nothing like a HEDD or a Fatso ... it's an actual record/repro head/circuit with magnetic transfer properties.)
Old 27th June 2005
  #6
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I plan on hearing it asap and will post.

(the design is nothing like a HEDD or a Fatso ... it's an actual record/repro head/circuit with magnetic transfer properties.)
That's super interesting...does that mean it might actually deliver "tape" sound without the rusty plastic sheets?
Old 27th June 2005
  #7
Tape-less tape sound for the non tape generation?

Kidding asside I wanna hear it real bad too!

Old 27th June 2005
  #8
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
That's super interesting...does that mean it might actually deliver "tape" sound without the rusty plastic sheets?
might?

seems possible at least

I'll do an actual 2" A/B if there's time ...
Old 27th June 2005
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
the design is nothing like a HEDD or a Fatso ... it's an actual record/repro head/circuit with magnetic transfer properties.
Yep that is why I am so interested in it. It should (with fingers crossed) be a much better design. I am really excited about it.
Old 27th June 2005
  #10
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krid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I plan on hearing it asap and will post.

(the design is nothing like a HEDD or a Fatso ... it's an actual record/repro head/circuit with magnetic transfer properties.)

I would be very interested to hear your opinion between the Portico and the HEDD even if they are very different beasts.
Old 27th June 2005
  #11
1484
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I plan on hearing it asap and will post.

(the design is nothing like a HEDD or a Fatso ... it's an actual record/repro head/circuit with magnetic transfer properties.)
Check out the future Sept. EQ magazine edtion where there will be a review of Rupert Neve's Masterpiece unit that has a similar circuit (if not the exact same one) as this new separate unit. Sorry I can't quote from it. It is able to add some nice color, but its not the black magic that one may think. Lots of products can add good color, and this is another unit that can be included.
Old 27th June 2005
  #12
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation
Check out the future Sept. EQ magazine edtion where there will be a review of Rupert Neve's Masterpiece unit that has a similar circuit (if not the exact same one) as this new separate unit. Sorry I can't quote from it. It is able to add some nice color, but its not the black magic that one may think. Lots of products can add good color, and this is another unit that can be included.
thanks, but i dont read the mags

the value of this will probably be another chain-dependent thing

i'm looking forward to it, only because the designer and rupert both have great ears for this type of sound quality.



Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
I would be very interested to hear your opinion between the Portico and the HEDD even if they are very different beasts.
im guessing that a subtle combo might be really nice
Old 29th June 2005
  #13
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rlnyc's Avatar
 

RupertNeveDesigns called me the other day and left a message (i was out of town) that as soon as the first units get through quality control (so the knobs don't fall off, etc.), they were going to ship me one. They said it would probably go out at the end of next week. i'll be happy to file a report after i run signal through it.

regards,
rlnyc
Old 29th June 2005
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlnyc
RupertNeveDesigns called me the other day and left a message (i was out of town) that as soon as the first units get through quality control (so the knobs don't fall off, etc.), they were going to ship me one. They said it would probably go out at the end of next week. i'll be happy to file a report after i run signal through it.

regards,
rlnyc
Very cool, yes I would love to hear a report.

Thanks!!
Old 29th June 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
 
chriscoleman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlnyc
RupertNeveDesigns called me the other day and left a message (i was out of town) that as soon as the first units get through quality control (so the knobs don't fall off, etc.), they were going to ship me one. They said it would probably go out at the end of next week. i'll be happy to file a report after i run signal through it.

regards,
rlnyc
...but you better not like it too much, as the GS Doubters Local 250 will likely think you're a RND shill and force you to post MP3's...

(I love my Portico, but I ain't tellin' anyone...oh wait...)
Old 29th June 2005
  #16
Gear Addict
 
rlnyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscoleman
...but you better not like it too much, as the GS Doubters Local 250 will likely think you're a RND shill and force you to post MP3's...
they will never get any mp3s out of me... no where, no how, no way.

if they don't believe cogent language descriptions and they demand crappy digitally compressed audio files that sound like old string telephones at a children's party, then let em sit on a fence.

me, i shell out the dough to have one in my hands and find out for myself. but i do understand that some cannot afford to do that, and are recording in bedrooms on a laptop. for them, we offer guaranteed non-shill reports, based on real experience.

it's the very best i can do, and i try hard, but i am nobodies butler... (jeeves, bring me an mp3!).

best regards with humour,
rlnyc
Old 9th July 2005
  #17
So what is the biggest difference between this and the hedd?
Old 9th July 2005
  #18
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100
So what is the biggest difference between this and the hedd?
in principle, they're not similar

the hedd adds odd, even or a proprietary mixture of harmonic distortons in the digital domain, through algorhythms ... this is Dave Hills ear and his math combined

Neve's box is about recreating the physical result of the record/repro process in an analog circuit that has the physical record/repro components working in real time BEFORE the converter
Old 9th July 2005
  #19
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

I´ve been wondering for years ( and know to not have been alone with that ) why nobody build a box that would incorporate the parts that make the characteristics of a tape machine in sound.

From a layman´s presumption at least it should be doable somehow.

If this one will achieve this effect many DAW studios will be buying it I guess.

Ruphus

PS: I imagine a tape machine on rec. / pause could do it too right? Only that you could be needing to move the tape for another inch or so once in a while for a fresh tape section. Would that be correct?
Old 9th July 2005
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus

PS: I imagine a tape machine on rec. / pause could do it too right? Only that you could be needing to move the tape for another inch or so once in a while for a fresh tape section. Would that be correct?
Not really, that is not how a multi track tape machine works. What you are talking about is more like monitoring the input of the tape deck which, with many machines, is nothing like the sound that would come back off of the reproduce head.

The input monitor is really just passing audio through the electronics of the ATR (that does produce a sonic signature as well to be sure) but when you listen to tape you are hearing the machines electronics recorded to the tape along with the saturation that comes from the limitations of the tape it's self.

When people say that they love the sound of tape 99 times out of 100 they are saying that they like the sound of the tape playback on the repro head. That or they don't know their a$$ from a tree stump and have never heard tape but have read too many websites....



Anyway it sounds like the tape simulation that the 5042 is trying to capture is the sound of the audio coming back off the repro head.
Quote:
An actual tape drive circuit is used to drive a tiny magnetic circuit and fed to a replay loop and actual replay preamp.
For anyone who has been asking, this is much different than something like the HEDD (or anything else that I know of for that matter) and should / could be very similar to tape. Maybe not better but different for sure.

Oh and in a check of the Portico site I don't see this shipping yet...

*sigh*

Just another manufacturer let down I guess.
Old 9th July 2005
  #21
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
That or they don't know their a$$ from a tree stump
Hey NSN,

I gotta check that one out.

Have an idea how to measure, should I try with a hammer or a saw? hihihi heh



Ruphus
Old 9th July 2005
  #22
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
the Portico should ship next week. At 1440 I assume it's an analog I/O box and not a converter ... so our converters will still matter and the sound will not be as big as tape no matter what it does, and the distortion will not expand the converters size.

The best thing about the HEDD going D-to-D is that it changes the converters sound and size in the digital domain (for those who dont know the 192 imagine a VERY high end digital BBE, if that's not to insulting!)

The Portico before the converter and the HEDD process after should work well for mastering purposes.

The Portico alone should work well for tracking.
Old 9th July 2005
  #23
Gear Addict
 
krid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
The Portico before the converter and the HEDD process after should work well for mastering purposes.

The Portico alone should work well for tracking.
And for mixing : HEDD or Portico ?
That's the question ...
Old 9th July 2005
  #24
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
And for mixing : HEDD or Portico ?
That's the question ...
I'd say neither, maybe the Portico.

A Hedd at mixing creates more trouble than it solves, come mastering time. A Hedd at tracking is also questionable (although many enjoy it).

A portico at mixing might work if you were careful with it and mixed out of the box already ... but again, I'd leave distortions to mastering.
Old 9th July 2005
  #25
Lek
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Lek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I'd say neither, maybe the Portico.

A Hedd at mixing creates more trouble than it solves, come mastering time. A Hedd at tracking is also questionable (although many enjoy it).

A portico at mixing might work if you were careful with it and mixed out of the box already ... but again, I'd leave distortions to mastering.
Hey Brian. I have a hedd, but will not use it on the mix (well maybe just for my own purposes), but will leave it for someone like you during mastering.
I just started using it lightly for tracking (not on every track). You think this will cause a problem for someone during mastering?
Example - acoustic guitars, what takes the edge off and warms it just a bit - triode 4, pentode 3, tape 2. On voice I didn't use anything. Tracking bass direct last night I found the tape knob on 5.5 made it sound nice. Putting the hedd on a whole mix will be different than different settings on different instruments (though it could sound better, though you could probably do any song 10 to the 5th different ways, who knows which eventually you'd like the most)
Old 9th July 2005
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by gp71
Hey Brian. I have a hedd, but will not use it on the mix (well maybe just for my own purposes), but will leave it for someone like you during mastering.
I just started using it lightly for tracking (not on every track). You think this will cause a problem for someone during mastering?
Example - acoustic guitars, what takes the edge off and warms it just a bit - triode 4, pentode 3, tape 2. On voice I didn't use anything. Tracking bass direct last night I found the tape knob on 5.5 made it sound nice. Putting the hedd on a whole mix will be different than different settings on different instruments (though it could sound better, though you could probably do any song 10 to the 5th different ways, who knows which eventually you'd like the most)
Well Lucey seems like a good guy and all so this is not an attack or anything
but remember this is just his take on things. You should make up your own mind on what you like.

The tape process on the HEDD is alot like real tape (I said like real tape, it is not real tape) and I never had a problem tracking a whole project to 2 inch back in the day, drums, bass guitar, key, vox, all sounded great to me.

I had a HEDD for a while I had to sell it for some other purchases but I do miss it from time to time. Although I did not get a chance to use it much I used the tape process on a few demos with great results. The tape process is the thing I miss the most about the box.

Never forget YMM and most likely will V, from mine, Lucey's, Joe Sixpack and the man on the moon.
Old 9th July 2005
  #27
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I agree with not so new

I´m using my Spider´s TAPE quite frequently when I´m tracking drums - especially kick & snare sound great with a bit of Tape "pepper".

Can´t say if it´s like real tape since I´m one of those jerks who never used tape....

Non the less I´m looking forward to listen to the Neve tape box
Old 9th July 2005
  #28
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
okay ... let me phrase this more carefully.

#1 The HEDD at tracking is fine ... just be smart.

some people, myself included, feel that it's distortions are not near as useful there as they are in mastering ... and that sometimes these distortions at tracking can create futher probelms in mixing and mastering as more distortion processing occurs with eq, comps, 2 mix, mastering.

What I'm saying is ... think about the whole chain when applying your distortions and if in doubt, be gentle on the HEDD. If a song is not going to get a lot of further processing, use the HEDD at will. If it is, probbaly not or not so much. The more you can image the whole process at any one point, the better ... but don't WORRY ... just do it.

The HEDD is more forward than more perfect converters with no processsing, so dont default to Process ON, default to OFF

#2 The HEDD and the SPIDER processes are slightly different and neither one sounds like tape. I've had tape for years and have an MM1200 2" and a ATR 1/2"plus a HEDD ... and it's not tape. It's digital harmonics, and compression ... it's got it's place and it's an amazing invention by a brilliant man, but it's different.

For one thing it's a combinaton of processes based in reliable math with a knob applied to a frequency variable source ... it's not a frequency and amplitude variable process applied to a variable source.

For another thing ... it results in digital. Tape results in analog. That's a quality difference. Imagine tape without it's typical distortions and noise and imagine the best digital you can ... they're still different.


#3 Whatever works (Copyright Ross Hogarth (p)(c)1974)
Old 9th July 2005
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
#3 Whatever works (Copyright Ross Hogarth (p)(c)1974)
I agree with that (Copyright shaman (p)(c)2005)
Old 10th July 2005
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

I was also told that the 5042 is coming out this week. I was also told that one of the moderators was recently given a test unit. Results?
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