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Your preferences in Drum overhead mics
Old 20th June 2005
  #31
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jakerbean7's Avatar
 

I sat in on a session today using SF24 directly over the kit and a spaced pair of Blue Bottles about 3 feet out front and 8 feet apart. The SF24 provided most of what the engineer needed and the Bottles were blended in slightly for some of the room and a bit of bite. It turned out well on this day, with this drummer, this kit, this room, etc., etc.
Old 20th June 2005
  #32
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audiomastermind's Avatar
 

NEUMANN KM 184's
Old 20th June 2005
  #33
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DHD's Avatar
 

Thanks for the responses guy.

I'm about to go from tracking acoustic based singer/songwriter types over to full band scenarios and just wanted to see what general aproaches were inspiring you. So, I've got to invest some cash in recording gear! thumbsup But slowly and wisely.

Stay cool,
DHD
Old 20th June 2005
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing

Audio Technica gave me a pair of 4050s to try out, and I find they sound a bit too cold (probably because they have no transformer). Went straight back to the U87s.

Cheers, Tom
I'd recommend trying the 4047's, then. They're transformer coupled and the capsule is 'aged'. I keep a pair of 4050's and a pair of 4047's around. Covers a lot of bases (cheap, too!)
Old 20th June 2005
  #35
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toolskid's Avatar
 

Pretty much what fletcher said, but I do love R122s, C12s, M160s, 4038s, Km56s, and U67s amongst others
Old 20th June 2005
  #36
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You Gotta Try Sheffields on OH.

There are a couple of guys here in town that have Sheffields and I have never heard anything better. In fact I just heard some tracks using them as overheads with only a kick mic in addition and you wouldn't know that all the other mics are muted. To bad there were only 16 pairs of them made.
Old 20th June 2005
  #37
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OH

I have been using AKG C12B's. Last session I did not use them over the kit, but pulled them out infront and to the side. So far in my drum experimentation, I have liked this the most. Cymbals sat better.
Old 21st June 2005
  #38
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Nine times out of ten, AKG 414 BULSs just hit the spot for me for rock stuff. I love them in Blumlein over the kit, although yesterday, I found a spaced pair in omni was more appropriate for the drummer's cymbal arrangement. I also love a Neumann SM2 with the nickel capsules. Those also sound great in Blumlein or MS. In certain rooms, the AT 4050s also sound good as a front-of-kit overhead (in MS), but I don't like them much over the top of the kit.

For jazz stuff or really articulate cymbal playing, I like the AT 4051s. The Avenson STO-2s are also cool for similar situations and for hard-hitting, aggressive music, too, where you can put them quite close to the cymbals without sounding harsh.

Coles 4038s and Beyer M160s work well for smoothing out brighter cymbals, but usually require a little HF EQ to make them sound right.

The Lomo 19a18s are pretty cool vintagey-sounding mics that I love for spaced-pair miking in certain situations and the Glyn Johns thing. I've also had decent luck at times with KM84s, C451s, U64s, U87s, 4031s, and in a pinch, Oktava MK-12s.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 21st June 2005
  #39
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My best results have been with either a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK4's or an AKG C426B (stereo mic).

The neumann km-184's are not too shabby either.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #40
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we have these stereo pairs;

u87
mc012
at 4033
km 84i

i use the km84i's mostly.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #41
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I've been meaning to start a thread about overheads. I have a huge problem with cymbal sounds being too ringy.. I record tons of bands that constantly ride on crashes and I need to get as much defintion as possible. Usually the sound just turns into a high end hiss and the attack of the cymbal disappears with heavy guitars.

Currently I have josephson c42's and octava 012's. To me the 42's are too glassy (love them on high hat) and the octavas are too dirty and not hifi enough. Right now I'm thinking I should get some ribbons but dont want that grungey vintage cymbal sound.. Just smooth clear cymbals where you can hear the hit. Ive used some vintage 414's that were awesome, but the new ones scare me since they're supposedly real bright....

Recommendations? Also any tips would be greatly appreciated..
Old 23rd June 2005
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red
Recommendations? Also any tips would be greatly appreciated..
Perhaps the Avenson STO-2s. They're omnis, and as such, you can put them ridiculously close to cymbals without the low end buildup and harshness you can get from other mics. I've used them on bashers a few times and they've worked very well for me. Moreso than 414s in omni.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 24th June 2005
  #43
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MBishopSFX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red
I've been meaning to start a thread about overheads. I have a huge problem with cymbal sounds being too ringy.. I record tons of bands that constantly ride on crashes and I need to get as much defintion as possible. Usually the sound just turns into a high end hiss and the attack of the cymbal disappears with heavy guitars.

Currently I have josephson c42's and octava 012's. To me the 42's are too glassy (love them on high hat) and the octavas are too dirty and not hifi enough. Right now I'm thinking I should get some ribbons but dont want that grungey vintage cymbal sound.. Just smooth clear cymbals where you can hear the hit. Ive used some vintage 414's that were awesome, but the new ones scare me since they're supposedly real bright....

Recommendations? Also any tips would be greatly appreciated..
Good ribbons won't give a clang-y cymbal sound unless the cymbals really ARE clang-y. The problem you describe about cymbals turning to hiss is common with using condensers for OH. AEA R-84s or the R-88, the Royer SF-12 or SF-24 have been very successful for me.
Old 24th June 2005
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing
Hi there,

I always like Neumann U87, when I record to tape.
Often ribbon mics, when it goes to digital.

It really depends on the kind of music I'm recording.
I guess any nice mic will do the job if the sound fits the rest of the arrangement.
It's the overall picture that counts.
I've heard of sessions with SM57s as overhead mics...

Tom
Ive always used three U87's, one central, and a stereo pair, and recorded direct into protools, and the results have been fantastic. Admittedly i have also always used a pair of Sony C38's (not great mic's, but good for this purpose) placed about three metres from the kit (at kit level). It provides an awesome ambience.

On the other hand, i have also used SM57's as overheads on recordings when i havnt been working in a high end studio, and although it was passible (for a non high end recording), it wasnt great. Its hard to get a good stereo image of the drums using them i think.
Old 24th June 2005
  #45
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Like Fletcher..I've got no set method..keeps it interesting..
A great player on a great kit makes experimentation fun and usually yields good results..
depending on the drummer,kit,room,song,tempo,etc:
Sometimes a single 47[on top or more in front] and nothing else
other times ribbons .just got me own new pair of coles[ no more renting]and some 44's..the R 84's sound great too.
The whittman front spaced pair thing is real cool in a good room/kit/player...
sometimes a C24 ..sounds great X/Y stereo..easy with phase and on one stand [laziness]
sometimes glyn johns mode w/87's or 67's..
then In a certian room the KM 54's always sound great..
even a single 58 over a cheapo kit slammed through a cheap alesis comp can sound cool..with the right player.
Anything goes That makes it fun
Old 24th June 2005
  #46
Gear Addict
 

yeah, i agree with that. Its good to have a reference sound too though. If you know how to get a sound you like, its good to use as a starting point, then experiment with mic placements and selection from there. This is obviously easier if you know the microphone's you have well. Im just about to start engineering in a studio that has a complete collection of mic's i aint used before, which would normally be a nightmare and mean finding the right sound very difficult for a while. Fortunately though we have a month or so to play around with the gear...and of course the help of the fellow slutz!!!
Old 24th June 2005
  #47
I'm recording a metal band this weekend with a huge kit and they are insisting on seperate mics for hh and ride (which I don't usually do), so I think I'm going to try my Neumann SM-69 FET in X-Y above the cymbals with KM84's on the ride and hh. Should sound great once I get it as phase coherent as possible.
Old 24th June 2005
  #48
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Blue Kiwi's sound damn good! They're amazingly transparent but have just enough sparkle.
Old 24th June 2005
  #49
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If you can kind one....a Neumann SM2 or SM23. 3-4 feet above the kit and 1-2 ft back from the kick...one capsule in cardioid facing down towards the kit, one capsule in omni.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHD
So do you prefere bright mics, ribbons, LCD, SCD, cardioid, omni?

I'm just looking for personal preferences and for what inspires you.

Thanks guys.
DHD
Old 25th June 2005
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

I too get a large number of ride clangers....

Clang the crashes and cymbals, ignore the Hi-Hat and yet still dust the snare with cotton buds...

most the time I just wish the drummer sounded better...

I've gotten great drum sounds with way less kit than I have now...

There's a lot of guys out there who play OK beats, but good drummers... they already have a sound!

All about player technique.

different guys on the same kit playing the same beat will sound entirely different.

I love when I don't have to use beat detective / drumagog / triggers and all the other silly things we do to make people sound good!

It is however great to have such tools to deal with things like this - of course when the good players come now they get an AMAZING sound....

If only drummers weren't almost always the weakest link...
Old 25th June 2005
  #51
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Soundelux iFet 7 in ORTF and API 212. Sounds allways killer. Sometimes KM184 and my neotek elite II pres. It depends.
Old 26th June 2005
  #52
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For rock 4038s or KM184s. For jazz or acoustic music it would be Royer 122s.

I always use API pres - call me creature of habit but hey - at least its a nice habit.

Beware the cymbal bashers!
Old 26th June 2005
  #53
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Freakuency's Avatar
 

KM-56's through NEVE 8078 pres, super smooth and open, full response. I also like M-160's through the same pres, usually spaced pair about 2 feet above cymbals. JUST FEEL THE VIBE!
Old 27th June 2005
  #54
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Usually a pair of GT-44s in X/Y over the drummers head tilted in towards the drums a cooter hair.
Sometimes just a mono 121 or TLM 103.
Sometimes just nuking the crap out of the snare mic and using only that in the mix gives me the sound I'm after for a particular tune.

-Scotty
Old 27th June 2005
  #55
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studjo's Avatar
 

did I hear the word overheads????

beyer m160 at the moment and I'm the luckiest guy in the room

Jo
Old 27th June 2005
  #56
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red
Currently I have josephson c42's and octava 012's. To me the 42's are too glassy (love them on high hat) and the octavas are too dirty and not hifi enough. Right now I'm thinking I should get some ribbons but dont want that grungey vintage cymbal sound.. Just smooth clear cymbals where you can hear the hit. Ive used some vintage 414's that were awesome, but the new ones scare me since they're supposedly real bright....

Recommendations? Also any tips would be greatly appreciated..
The R88 at chest height with a little eq ... then if you need more condenser sound a mono, cardioid LDC at belly height just under the R88 is great, or the C42s in an X/Y just over the R88.
Old 28th June 2005
  #57
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Quote:
If you can kind one....a Neumann SM2 or SM23. 3-4 feet above the kit and 1-2 ft back from the kick...one capsule in cardioid facing down towards the kit, one capsule in omni.
I'm an SM2 junkie with a pattern fetish. I've used it and loved the SM2 everyway but that way. Maybe soon i'll give it a try.

That thing slays in M/S so it makes sense...

Typically i start with x/y and dial the patterns in to get the image doing what i want. Great freaking mic.
Old 28th June 2005
  #58
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I always like using KM86's for both overheads and rooms, usually set on omni. Definitely large diaphragm condensers or a ribbon possibly, depending on the style.

Dante
Old 28th June 2005
  #59
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km 184's usually..but 414 tl11's when I have them free.
Old 28th June 2005
  #60
Tim
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KM84 (with 1272)*
R121 (with 3124)*
C24 (1272)*
SM2 (RCA BA-1)*

*I don't always use the same mic/amp combo, but have fond memories with those.

I used to use 87s on O-H but I use them more on toms lately.

I've not tried M-S for O-H yet.............got to!
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