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Bock 151 vs Bock 251 vs Soundelux 251? Condenser Microphones
Old 13th November 2009
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitfiddle View Post
Building a vocal chain - What Preamp? Leaning towards Great River/Avedis MA5? Any other ideas?
I answered you in this thread;
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/4779337-post14.html
Old 13th November 2009
  #92
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Thank You
Old 21st November 2009
  #93
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James, did you ever do the shootout between the Elux 251 and the 151? Did you end up buying the 251?
Old 18th January 2010
  #94
Here for the gear
 

bock v soundelux

Hi,

There's been a couple of posts suggesting the Bock 251 and Soundelux Elux251 are the same beast different badge

There's a music retailer here in Australia selling the Bock 251 for $6k (AUD) and the Elux251 for $9k

Could someone explain the difference if there is any between these mics?

Thanks
James
Old 19th January 2010
  #95
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tunetown's Avatar
 

It's the same mic. I would suggest that Awave purchased the Elux when the AUD was crap. Call Lewis and ask him directly. If he won't budge on the Elux just buy the Bock.

It's worth the effort. It's a fantastic mic.

Cheers
Old 19th January 2010
  #96
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Deuce 225's Avatar
 

Soundelux Mics E250 & 251

I found this old thread earlier today when I was researching info on my Soundelux E250. Post 5 of the thread GS Member Lynn Fuston references an interview he did with David Bock. I listened to it, very interesting. You need to sign up for Lynn's forum to hear the interview (very worthwhile).

Soundelux Elux251 / E250

Best,

Tim Cochran
Old 16th January 2011
  #97
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears View Post
Ugg! My wife bought my CM7 for me, and about 50% of the rest of my studio.

I better be extra nice to her this weekend, EXTRA nice!

I really want a Bock 251 next, I love the CM7 but it just has that one sound. Here in the UK it's very expensive to import a Bock 251. Looks like I'm gonna have to keep saving and hoping the work keeps coming in!

Rob
Your wife bought 50% of your studio and you're thinking of being nice to her NOW? I'd have eaten her **** straight out of the bowl for a CM7!!!
Old 17th January 2011
  #98
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Freemiumaire's Avatar
 

not the same mic

Lots of posts suggesting Bock 251 = Soundelux 251

Quote:
Originally Posted by tunetown View Post
It's the same mic. I would suggest that Awave purchased the Elux when the AUD was crap.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddP View Post
Bock 251 = Soundelux Elux251
Bock 151 = Soundelux E251C
Should watch out when making claims such as this.

The original Soundelux 251 used GE 6072 tubes, and some (like mine) with specially selected NOS 5-star 6072's. They also feature unique transformers from my understanding - e.g. TAB built T14/1.

The Bock 251 now uses 5670 tubes. Most likely a different custom transformer too (to match the different tube - can someone confirm?).

Not saying the Bock version isn't a great mic, knowing what David does, it most certainly is!

But how could one claim that a different tube and transformer combination in the Bock 251 equates exactly to the Soundelux 251? In short, it couldn't, and this probably explains the price differential.

Worth reading this: PSW Recording Forums: The Acid Test => Bock 251
Old 17th January 2011
  #99
Gear Nut
 
tunetown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron View Post
Lots of posts suggesting Bock 251 = Soundelux 251





Should watch out when making claims such as this.

The original Soundelux 251 used GE 6072 tubes, and some (like mine) with specially selected NOS 5-star 6072's. They also feature unique transformers from my understanding - e.g. TAB built T14/1.

The Bock 251 now uses 5670 tubes. Most likely a different custom transformer too (to match the different tube - can someone confirm?).

Not saying the Bock version isn't a great mic, knowing what David does, it most certainly is!

But how could one claim that a different tube and transformer combination in the Bock 251 equates exactly to the Soundelux 251? In short, it couldn't, and this probably explains the price differential.

Worth reading this: PSW Recording Forums: The Acid Test => Bock 251
You are correct. My ELUX 251 uses the more current 5670 tube. I have had no experience with the older version with the 6072. I believe the tube was changed so that future supply was assured.

Cheers
Old 17th January 2011
  #100
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I don't know if it's been done yet. A proper A/B, the same or no pop filter,
the same length, type of cable, two (or more) channel pre, identical gain,
both direct to an A/D then DAW as identically matched as possible. Using
a Bock 251 and a Telefunken USA 251. That is a test I'm waiting to hear.
Old 24th January 2011
  #101
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Not to throw a wrench in this list of mics, but at AES this year I was over at Bock Microphones and asked Dave Bock about a 47 type mic. That's the one thing I didn't have in my arsenal that I really needed. Now I've known Dave for over 15 years and I used his mics a lot during that time, but I've never owned one. He called me up a couple of weeks before Christmas and said he built a E47 mic for me, come on down and pick it up. Now because I've know Dave for so long I know the mic would be top notch, no question about it, but when I recorded my first vocals on it I was blown away. I own a Sony C800G and AKG C12 VR, but the Bock e47 has a quality that none of those mics has. Not hyped, smooth natural and full. From the top to the bottom, just rich tones coming out of this mic. Trust me, try a Bock e47, you WILL be blown away.
Old 24th January 2011
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Not to throw a wrench in this list of mics, but at AES this year I was over at Bock Microphones and asked Dave Bock about a 47 type mic. That's the one thing I didn't have in my arsenal that I really needed. Now I've known Dave for over 15 years and I used his mics a lot during that time, but I've never owned one. He called me up a couple of weeks before Christmas and said he built a E47 mic for me, come on down and pick it up. Now because I've know Dave for so long I know the mic would be top notch, no question about it, but when I recorded my first vocals on it I was blown away. I own a Sony C800G and AKG C12 VR, but the Bock e47 has a quality that none of those mics has. Not hyped, smooth natural and full. From the top to the bottom, just rich tones coming out of this mic. Trust me, try a Bock e47, you WILL be blown away.
Is Bock putting his 47 style mics back into production? Someone in another thread had mentioned that the iFet7 would return to production this year, although no one has backed that up.

I love my iFet7, but haven't yet had the opportunity to use an E47.
Old 24th January 2011
  #103
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmacko View Post
Is Bock putting his 47 style mics back into production? Someone in another thread had mentioned that the iFet7 would return to production this year, although no one has backed that up.

I love my iFet7, but haven't yet had the opportunity to use an E47.
I'm not sure about that. I just know he made this one for me and it's awesome!
Old 24th January 2011
  #104
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I just picked up a used E47 and I couldn't be happier. Cut an airy female vocal last week and did NOT expect the E47 to work well in that application, but I was very happily surprised. Even thought it's not the brightest mic out there, the top end is just so beautiful and natural in this mic, that it really brought out the best in her voice.

By contrast, I had a Elux251 here for several weeks and as nice as it was, I could use it on maybe 5% of the voices I record. Just SO bright. Not really harsh, but damn...I'm not crazy about rolling off 5db of top end with everything I put the mic up on...

REALLY happy with the E47! I wonder why it went out of production?

Z
Old 25th January 2011
  #105
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tapehiss's Avatar
Also worth mentioning is that Bock will be discontinuing the 151, and replacing it with the 241.

There is a new thread about the 241 in the new products forum.
Old 20th June 2014
  #106
While looking for a Bock 251 I also came upon some already sold ELUX 251's... any reason why used Soundelux 251's are going for $2500-2900 and the Bock 251's selling for about $1000 more if they are the same mic?
Old 20th June 2014
  #107
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Because they are not the same mic.

The Soundelux 251s are not even the same mic, mic to mic... there were a bunch of revisions made to them during the time they were made.... tubes, transformers, circuit changes, even capsule tuning. Mid to late model Soundelux's used different versions of AMI transformers and had tweaks to the top end circuit wise, very early ones used Lundahl and had a slightly different capsule tuning. The new Bock 251s use custom oversized AMI transformers. Many of the Soundelux's used 6072 tubes, new Bock ones do not. Other differences too.

I just had my 6072 lundahl soundelux swapped to use the same transformer as on the current Bocks while still using the 6072...

ALL of them sound good, just in different ways. The early Lundahl loaded ones are the least forward sounding and very smooth, but probably the most versatile imo. Good for pop... some of the Kelly Clarkson stuff was done on the Lundahl models, as well as some other well knowns. The new Bock 251s are insanely forward with more mojo, which is awesome when you want that... its a sound/effect a lot of people dont have access to.
Old 20th June 2014
  #108
Gear Nut
 
Freemiumaire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SighBorg View Post
Because they are not the same mic.

I just had my 6072 lundahl soundelux swapped to use the same transformer as on the current Bocks while still using the 6072...
That's interesting, I had the same thing done to mine (early serial, 6072 version) 5 years ago. The original T14/1 transformer came loose and had brittle laminate.

Just dug up the total list of modifications I had David make if anyone's interested:
  • REPLACE AUDIO XFMR
  • CHANGE CAPSULE POLARIZE FROM 50V TO 60V TO IMPROVE S/N
  • 115V TO 230V IN PSU
  • NEW SWITCH ARM ASSY W/ ENGRAVED PATTERN INDICATOR
  • RELOCATE TUBE SOCKET MOUNTING BRACKETS AND INSTALL SUPPLIED NOS GE 5-STAR 6072A TUBE
  • NEW TUBE SOCKET & WIRING
  • NEW OUTPUT CAP
  • NEW CATHODE BYP CAP

Just took some photos with my phone....







The ELUX 251 is an astonishing mic to say the least
Old 20th June 2014
  #109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SighBorg View Post
Because they are not the same mic.

The Soundelux 251s are not even the same mic, mic to mic... there were a bunch of revisions made to them during the time they were made.... tubes, transformers, circuit changes, even capsule tuning. Mid to late model Soundelux's used different versions of AMI transformers and had tweaks to the top end circuit wise, very early ones used Lundahl and had a slightly different capsule tuning. The new Bock 251s use custom oversized AMI transformers. Many of the Soundelux's used 6072 tubes, new Bock ones do not. Other differences too.

I just had my 6072 lundahl soundelux swapped to use the same transformer as on the current Bocks while still using the 6072...

ALL of them sound good, just in different ways. The early Lundahl loaded ones are the least forward sounding and very smooth, but probably the most versatile imo. Good for pop... some of the Kelly Clarkson stuff was done on the Lundahl models, as well as some other well knowns. The new Bock 251s are insanely forward with more mojo, which is awesome when you want that... its a sound/effect a lot of people dont have access to.

Thanks SB for this info! Price difference sure makes sense now.
Old 20th June 2014
  #110
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchollywood View Post
That's interesting, I had the same thing done to mine (early serial, 6072 version) 5 years ago. The original T14/1 transformer came loose and had brittle laminate.

Just dug up the total list of modifications I had David make if anyone's interested:
  • REPLACE AUDIO XFMR
  • CHANGE CAPSULE POLARIZE FROM 50V TO 60V TO IMPROVE S/N
  • 115V TO 230V IN PSU
  • NEW SWITCH ARM ASSY W/ ENGRAVED PATTERN INDICATOR
  • RELOCATE TUBE SOCKET MOUNTING BRACKETS AND INSTALL SUPPLIED NOS GE 5-STAR 6072A TUBE
  • NEW TUBE SOCKET & WIRING
  • NEW OUTPUT CAP
  • NEW CATHODE BYP CAP


The ELUX 251 is an astonishing mic to say the least
Do you remember the approx cost of these upgrades?
Old 21st June 2014
  #111
Gear Nut
 
Freemiumaire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
Do you remember the approx cost of these upgrades?
About $500, but that was 5 years ago...
Old 22nd June 2014
  #112
Gear Addict
 
Ryan Gregory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
James, you realize that every single one of those pop screens has a different sound. BTW, you should never use pop filters on tests. Too much effect on the sound.
JJ, can I ask, in your experience - what pop filters are the least "intrusive?" Or sound "cleanest" I guess would be another way to put it
Old 22nd June 2014
  #113
Lives for gear
 

For anyone interested, Bock offers a e47 to the new Bock407 conversion. Unbelievable mic!!!
Old 22nd June 2014
  #114
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Gregory View Post
JJ, can I ask, in your experience - what pop filters are the least "intrusive?" Or sound "cleanest" I guess would be another way to put it
I'm not jj but…

Usually a foam pop/windscreen type filter over the mic is best if you must. Most consistent, creates least severe frequency dips/peaks compared to the natural, "un-pop-filtered" sound.

But, make sure to change them out as the foam ages, as it will eventually make "foam dust" as you brush into it.
Old 22nd June 2014
  #115
Gear Addict
 
Ryan Gregory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
I'm not jj but…

Usually a foam pop/windscreen type filter over the mic is best if you must. Most consistent, creates least severe frequency dips/peaks compared to the natural, "un-pop-filtered" sound.

But, make sure to change them out as the foam ages, as it will eventually make "foam dust" as you brush into it.
cool, thanks man
Old 8th May 2015
  #116
for the Bock interview:


the above link is dead - this one is live:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/040602_f2f_davidbock.mp3
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