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Too much analog??? Fatso and 1/2"
Old 17th June 2005
  #1
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Too much analog??? Fatso and 1/2"

Here's my issue...I just bought a Fatso a month ago....love it.
Just bought a 1/2" machine to mix to last week...love it.

I like to use the Fatso Buss comp on my Drum Sub, but you can't turn off it's analog simulation. If I do this and then mix to real tape....will that be too much?

I have been thinking aloud (on here) about trading/selling it to get a API 2500, Cultre Vulture, 747, etc....One small problem...I reallly like the Fatso!

Ideas?
Old 17th June 2005
  #2
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen
Here's my issue...I just bought a Fatso a month ago....love it.
Just bought a 1/2" machine to mix to last week...love it.

I like to use the Fatso Buss comp on my Drum Sub, but you can't turn off it's analog simulation. If I do this and then mix to real tape....will that be too much?

I have been thinking aloud (on here) about trading/selling it to get a API 2500, Cultre Vulture, 747, etc....One small problem...I reallly like the Fatso!

Ideas?

my idea, simpleton that i am, is that you actually try it and see if it's too much.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 17th June 2005
  #3
If you are dealing with satanic digital audio - then a Fatso cant be beaten..
Old 17th June 2005
  #4
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toolskid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen
One small problem...I reallly like the Fatso!
sorry to be blunt, but you answered your own question...
Old 17th June 2005
  #5
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pigpen's Avatar
 

So you guys think they can live together like Ebony and Ivory (Sorry the whole Micheal thing...couldn't be helped)?

I am just worried about too much bottom since they both add a deal and then the top...the warmth button is too cool. But if they are both doing that, is it overkill?

I have tried them together btw, some tracks good some not so good. But I am still getting used to the tape.(It's been awhile)

I just didn't know if maybe a stereo comp like the 2500 that still has attitude but can always be used without the overkill effect might be a better addition.



Thanks again for all your help
Old 17th June 2005
  #6
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wallace's Avatar
 

I end up using the fatso with my 1/2" tape machine. Usually I'll record to tape first and then give it a little more warmth (with the input knob till just before it hits the red light), and possibly a bit of compression. I have nothing against mixing the two sounds and adding as much analog juice as I can to a sound. It's kind of weird if you use the fatso before the tape.

I like to use the fatso on the drum sub too. I don't think I would sell my fatso, at least while I'm still using digital.
Old 17th June 2005
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

First rule of audio:

Listen. Don't think.

Yes, it's OK to lay in bed at night and think of new things to try. But listen to the results.

I have personally found myself to be wrong about 75% of the time when I think of what to expect from an experiment.

Some of my best projects have failed and some of my worst have succeeded.

And just for some theoretical thought:

In the analog days, every channel was recorded to tape. Some twice. Vocals 3 or 4 times. And yes, they were all mixed to Analog. Sometimes the safety copy was used as a master.

Good Luck
Old 20th June 2005
  #8
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace
I end up using the fatso with my 1/2" tape machine. Usually I'll record to tape first and then give it a little more warmth (with the input knob till just before it hits the red light), and possibly a bit of compression. I have nothing against mixing the two sounds and adding as much analog juice as I can to a sound. It's kind of weird if you use the fatso before the tape.

I like to use the fatso on the drum sub too. I don't think I would sell my fatso, at least while I'm still using digital.

Not to sound stoopid, but what do you set your output at when you do this? Just wanted to see if I was I the ballpark tonight. I gave it shot and sounded pretty good, but I am getting too much mud in the bottom when I use the 2 in conjunction...ideas?
Thanks
Old 20th June 2005
  #9
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
First rule of audio:

Listen. Don't think.

Yes, it's OK to lay in bed at night and think of new things to try. But listen to the results.

I have personally found myself to be wrong about 75% of the time when I think of what to expect from an experiment.

Some of my best projects have failed and some of my worst have succeeded.

And just for some theoretical thought:

In the analog days, every channel was recorded to tape. Some twice. Vocals 3 or 4 times. And yes, they were all mixed to Analog. Sometimes the safety copy was used as a master.

Good Luck
Which voice do I listen to? The one in my right ear of left? heh
(DAMN PANNING!!!!)
Thanks man
Old 1st July 2005
  #10
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wallace's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen
Not to sound stoopid, but what do you set your output at when you do this? Thanks
Hey, i just saw this. I set the levels on the tape machine so they're not too much in the red, then hit record and listen in playback mode, get a good sound, then set the input of the fatso to where it sounds good (usually till just before the red light comes on). Then I set the output accordingly.
Old 1st July 2005
  #11
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wilcofan's Avatar
 

Maybe you are thinking too much about it because the Fatso is marketed as a tape replacer of sorts.

If you strip the Fatso down into parts you'll see it's just a digtally controlled compressor, some DSP distortion, and a transformer. These are all elements your digital music will probaly have from lots of other sources along the way no matter what. Just another tool.

A tape is tape. If you like it there's nothing to replace it.

If it sounds good it is good.
Old 2nd July 2005
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen
Here's my issue...I just bought a Fatso a month ago....love it.
Just bought a 1/2" machine to mix to last week...love it.

I like to use the Fatso Buss comp on my Drum Sub, but you can't turn off it's analog simulation. If I do this and then mix to real tape....will that be too much?

I have been thinking aloud (on here) about trading/selling it to get a API 2500, Cultre Vulture, 747, etc....One small problem...I reallly like the Fatso!

Ideas?
I had one and thought it was nice for tracking snare,kick, overheads... I think tracking with a cranesong Hedd with the tape knob is nice.
I would not use the fatso when mixing if there is a nice 2 track involved... Just my opinion.

Last edited by gabler; 2nd July 2005 at 04:00 AM.. Reason: confusing
Old 3rd July 2005
  #13
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Thanks for all the insight!
Right now I am leaning towads keeping it. Not all my clients are going to buy tape so....the Fatso stays.
FWIW...I have tried some of the ideas here and they can indeed coincide if used judicously.
And like I said before...I dig it.
thumbsup
Old 12th July 2005
  #14
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Like a true slut....I kept both!
Old 12th July 2005
  #15
Gear Nut
 
dobber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
If you are dealing with satanic digital audio - then a Fatso cant be beaten..
Damn. That should be in every magazine.
Old 12th July 2005
  #16
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber
Damn. That should be in every magazine.

Agreed...hell it was 90% of the reason I kept it and saw the light!
Old 2nd February 2009
  #17
Gear Addict
 

old thread up again

i am in the same situation now
i am awaiting my Fatso in excitement

i have just a small 2 bus chain (main usage of the Fatso in my case, beside some single processing earlier)

so, the end of my chain is a Revox B77 running 468
i did read in this thread having the Fatso BEFORE the Tape sounds weird?
in what way? totaly unrecomendet?

because thats what i intended it to use like

i usualy mix to the Tape and later on a playback record it back to DAW
if i should use the Fatso after the Tape i would either only use it AFTER the mixdown procdure what i dont really like/want to do

or go out of my Tape into Fatso and on the fly while mixing, send the stereo track back through my digital Mixing desk Yamaha n12

should i definitly do that or is Fatso beore Tape just fine?



another question i ve got is how to use my only other 2 bus Gear best with the Fatso
its a Drawmer 1961 Tube EQ
should i somehow sidechain the EQ to the Fatso?
or simply run through the 1961->Fatso->Tape?

i dont really know much about the use and effect of sidechain
Old 2nd February 2009
  #18
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

I love the Fatso on individual tracks, occasionally on a sub bus, but not on the mix bus. I find it too colored to slap across the entire mix. However, if you're mixing into anything from early enough you can make it work simply because you'll adjust for whatever that box is doing.

The times I've tried a Fatso on a pre-existing mix (mastering or whatever) I found it too colored and just not right, so I don't try to mix into it. I can't imagine a Fatso and tape on the mix unless you're going for a retro 40's sound.
Old 2nd February 2009
  #19
Gear Addict
 

hmmm that makes me a bit uncomfortable now

40s is not really my aim... lil bit 70 ish maybe
why do you say 40s? i dont get the box for distortion reasons
if i wanna crunch a bit the 1961 EQ can do that nicley

i however do bass heavy musik with lots of low end ..mostly reggae,dub and some soulish hiphop, and high frequencies liek in drums are my sworn enemy.

but another reason i went for the Fatso is, after i just sold my Drawmer 1968 Comp wich where on the mix bus, i miss something
a bit of glueing and compression + Lowend enrichment even with the Tape.

so i thought this box must be a pretty good multi purpose tool for my kind of music
and i am sure it is

but would you say Fatso+Tape goes distortion????
Old 2nd February 2009
  #20
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I just remember thinking that the Fatso did too much to the mixes I tried it on. It changed the sound and made it too liquid, and messed with the high end too much, even on a very thin digital mix someone gave me. I love the Fatso on individual tracks and even buses (drums, acoustic guitars, sitars), but on the full track it doesn't work for me. Going to tape alone will make a big difference so I couldn't imagine using both for this purpose.

I actually love that 1968 you just sold, although I could see you maybe wanting the SSL comp or Smart comp for hip hop, R&B.

The other thing is that the Fatso is pretty limited for attack/release settings so you can't tweak it.
Old 2nd February 2009
  #21
Gear Addict
 

yes i did like the 1968 a lot too, and maybe i ll get it back one day
but had to sell it...

the simplicity of the Fatso comp is only to my advantage (...)

i hope it can give me a similar comp&glue effekt the 1968 did
with Low End fattnis (1968 BIG knob) wich i assume the Fatso will even better provide
the warmth etc will be adjusted to runnign through the Tape so i dont overdo it

nope i am not doing HipHop... and never ever that whats called R&B today

i do mostly dub reggae and for that i have no problems with lil bit vintage sound... Highend killing and fat bass

but also planing some hiphop-soul´ish projects...
gash..i hope i made the right decision buying it
(got a good 2nd hand price tho)

i am doing not much single track processing in general OTB rather ITB
but i may track Bass through it and run drums through

but my main purpose is 2 bus
Old 3rd February 2009
  #22
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Of course, the only thing that matters is what works for you. Good luck!
Old 3rd February 2009
  #23
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lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilcofan View Post
Maybe you are thinking too much about it because the Fatso is marketed as a tape replacer of sorts.

If you strip the Fatso down into parts you'll see it's just a digtally controlled compressor, some DSP distortion, and a transformer. These are all elements your digital music will probaly have from lots of other sources along the way no matter what. Just another tool.

A tape is tape. If you like it there's nothing to replace it.

If it sounds good it is good.
correct me if i'm wrong. When you say "DSP distortion" are you indicating that the fatso uses digital processing? I don't think it does. I think its digitally controlled analog.

Russell
Old 3rd February 2009
  #24
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty View Post
correct me if i'm wrong. When you say "DSP distortion" are you indicating that the fatso uses digital processing? I don't think it does. I think its digitally controlled analog.

Russell
I thought that it was a digitally controlled analog unit as well. I sure hope so. It would make no sense to me to have the signal go through digital signal processing. I don't like that idea. The whole point of outboard for me is to stay analogue. I would like to get a definitive, honest answer to this question as well.
Old 3rd February 2009
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

FATSO Product Description
The EL7 FATSO is a modern digitally controlled analog device that offers many of the "musical non-linearities" exhibited by the older tube, class A discrete, and magnetic tape mediums. This two channel audio processor will musically integrate frequencies and transients and increase the apparant volume without actual increase in peak levels. In addition, two channels of famous Empirical Labs compression are provided. There are several compressor "types" with fixed attacks and releases (if you want a fully controllable compressor, you will need the Empirical Labs Distressor!).


Old 3rd February 2009
  #26
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by radlid View Post
FATSO Product Description
The EL7 FATSO is a modern digitally controlled analog device that offers many of the "musical non-linearities" exhibited by the older tube, class A discrete, and magnetic tape mediums. This two channel audio processor will musically integrate frequencies and transients and increase the apparant volume without actual increase in peak levels. In addition, two channels of famous Empirical Labs compression are provided. There are several compressor "types" with fixed attacks and releases (if you want a fully controllable compressor, you will need the Empirical Labs Distressor!).



Yes of course that is the description on the website but that is to say the least a little vague. I for one would definitely like to know some more details concerning the actual signal path.
Old 3rd February 2009
  #27
Gear Addict
 

well of course first the sound is what matters BUT

i am buying this as well as a unit that is totaly analoge processing and digitaly controlled

would definitly feel cheated if that wouldnt be the case

BUT i am 99% sure it is
if Dave Derr wont, couldnt UBK give a simple statement...just to calm us down?
Old 3rd February 2009
  #28
Lives for gear
i have the same chain (almost) as you: 1961, 1969, fatso. i've used it on loads and loads of mixes. the fatso sounds just fine across a mix IMO, you just have to spend some time setting it up. fwiw i usually have the inputs set fairly conservatively and i never use the compressors on a mix. the compressors are cool on indidual instruments but they are too heavy-handed on a mix. for me the fatso adds a nice harmonic sheen to a mix, and (very) judicious use of the warmth buttons can be great on certain sources, but it doesn't 'glue' the way the 1969 does...
Old 3rd February 2009
  #29
Gear Addict
 

thanks, interesting to hear

but ok, you use the Drawmer for compression, and the Fatso for special carakterism i guess

i simply also wanna use the comp.. i have also not much against some coloring...i dont do mixes for clients but i am just an artist myself

dont have to provide super clear radio-quality mixes if i dont feel like

right now i wish i wouldnt have sold the Drawmer but i needed the cash for other gear...


so for now i want to use the Fatso as multi purpose tool as well for its unique tape like and waht all charakterism
as well as bass fettener/Transient rounder
AND as a slightly used mix-compressor
Old 3rd February 2009
  #30
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tomdarude's Avatar
The Fatso has an all analog signal path,
no A/D-D/A conversion is applied to the audio signal running through!
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