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Antelope Isochrone OCX or UA 2192 ..which word clock? Synchronisers/Clock Generators
Old 15th November 2008
  #1
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UpNSmoke's Avatar
 

Antelope Isochrone OCX or UA 2192 ..which word clock?

I'm currently running a Lynx AES PCIe card that is sending AES I/O connections to both a Crane Song HEDD and UA 2192. I'm using the UA 2192 as the master clock for both since it has multiple clock outputs (AES for the Lynx and BNC for the HEDD). Everything seems to be hunky dory with this setup. However...

I'm wondering if it would be worth it to spend the extra $ and get an Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX to clock all of the previously mentioned devices. I've never heard one and not sure if it will make any difference - any Isochrone OCX users want to chime in?

Michael
Old 15th November 2008
  #2
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
I'm wondering if it would be worth it to spend the extra $ and get an Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX to clock all of the previously mentioned devices.

i can relate to some pretty insane gear acquisitions, but $1500 for a clock when you've got a hedd and a 2192 to choose from feels kinda insane to me.

is there nowhere else in your setup where that kind of bread couldn't make your life better by a greater margin? here's a checklist, i'd make sure *everything* on this list is in top form before i even considered a clock for someone in your position:

1) room acoustics

2) monitors

3) mics

4) instruments

5) songs

6) coffeemaker and beans

7) dates, clothing, flowers, vacations, and assorted gifts for the lady

8) good shoes that correct for overpronation or supination

9) a conditioner that softens hair without excessive buildup


iow, your setup is so good as it is that i'd strongly suggest relaxing the compulsion to improve every possible minutae, and look to other areas of life that could possibly benefit from your attention and good intentions.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 15th November 2008
  #3
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UBK,

Thanks for the response - but I feel that this bit of "minutae" ,as you so put, is a very important question, being that there are in effect three clocks being synced and it is being used for our mastering studio. I've seen engineers take such high-end gear like RADAR systems, Lavry, etc and clock them with external word clocks and claim that there is a discernible difference in the sonic character - whether this is good or bad, is a subjective topic based on the users taste..

I've seen a lot of snake-oil on GS, but a word clock distribution device serves both a utility function (master word clock device) and an aesthetic one ( improving imagining, etc)..

I'm still extemely interested in hearing from somone with first-hand experience using the Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX and/or UA 2192 as a word clock distribution device. This would probably be more constructive than telling me to spend the money on a coffee machine

Michael
Old 15th November 2008
  #4
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
This would probably be more constructive than telling me to spend the money on a coffee machine l

depends on what you're trying to construct. thumbsup


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 15th November 2008
  #5
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thermos's Avatar
I'm going to say "no, its not worth it." I've never tried the Isochrone, its supposed to be great, but the clock in the Hedd is certainly great as probably is the clock in 2192.

And dude, the coffee machine is SUPER important. Is in my life anyway.
Old 15th November 2008
  #6
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All right damnit, you guys convinced me to get a kick-#%s coffee machine!

But I'm going to make sure I have word clock syncing it up with the rest of my kitchen appliances

Seriously - thanks for the posts and so far everyone has just confirmed what I originally thought would be the case - the UA 2192 (and the HEDD) are top-notch word clock distribution devices...and there's no need to get a master clock to sync them all up..

"yeahiknow" - thank you for the informative and interesting post. You made an excellent point by stating that with a master word clock I would lose the option for the UA 2192 to clock itself internally.

While I'm convinced that the cost of a new master word clock would not justify the sonic differences (if any) at this point; I'm still open to hear from those of you who have used the Isochrone OCX with either a HEDD or a UA 2192.

I do have to say that the HEDD and 2192 are completely different beasts that compliment each other wonderfully..but alas, that's a topic for another post..
Old 15th November 2008
  #7
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Fwiw, this is what clocks my studio.

Wholelattelove.com: Expobar: Expobar Office Pulser: Espresso Machines: Semi-Automatic Espresso Machines


I will say though, I have a friend who started clocking his Pacific Microsonics from an Isochrone, and noticed an immediate (positive) difference.
Old 16th November 2008
  #8
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Now I get why you call yourself 'Thermos' - that's a serious espresso machine! Ironically enough, I gave up coffee 5 months ago and haven't looked back. This was after drinking it everyday for over 18 years! So how do I get by now? Here's what powers my studio:

https://secure.vitamix.com/acb/store...-P730C108.aspx

It's made a huge improvement in my health and the energy hasn't subsided - just less jittery - get it 'jitter' heh

No affiliation with the company whatsoever, btw..

Where were we? Oh yeah, clocks...

So now you're not making this easy for me after I read this quote:

"I will say though, I have a friend who started clocking his Pacific Microsonics from an Isochrone, and noticed an immediate (positive) difference."

C'mon Isocrone OCX users....puh leaze chime in
Old 16th November 2008
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
Now I get why you call yourself 'Thermos' - that's a serious espresso machine! Ironically enough, I gave up coffee 5 months ago and haven't looked back. This was after drinking it everyday for over 18 years! So how do I get by now? Here's what powers my studio:

https://secure.vitamix.com/acb/store...-P730C108.aspx

It's made a huge improvement in my health and the energy hasn't subsided - just less jittery - get it 'jitter' heh

No affiliation with the company whatsoever, btw..

Where were we? Oh yeah, clocks...

So now you're not making this easy for me after I read this quote:

"I will say though, I have a friend who started clocking his Pacific Microsonics from an Isochrone, and noticed an immediate (positive) difference."

C'mon Isocrone OCX users....puh leaze chime in
Its a GREAT BOX!! However, so are the boxes in your rack!! There are more than likely not many people with both 2192/HEDD and OCX, so I think the only way to truly figure out what will happen when you lock all of your verters to a master clock [or any converters clock] will be to listen to the effects and see if you find them pleasing enough to have such device in your studio. I am of the opinion that a master clock is the only thing that improves the rest of your equipment depending on how you are using it all. It may be preferable, it may not......but the only way to tell will be to try it out with your gear.
Old 16th November 2008
  #10
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Adam,

thanks so much for the post - you have a good point; even if someone where to provide their .02, it would ultimately be a decision I will have to make based on my own ears...gasp...imagine that concept..

I probably should at least give it a try so I'll know for sure if it's worth the extra $. That way when someone else posts something similar I can tell them if they should buy the Isochrone OCX or a coffee machine

Michael
Old 16th November 2008
  #11
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

the Isochrone OCX with the 10M is an amazing setup, the difference it made over a Big Ben was like night and day. But if you have a 2192 and a HEDD already, I'd say I'm sure your money could be utilized better in other areas.
Old 16th November 2008
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
the Isochrone OCX with the 10M is an amazing setup, the difference it made over a Big Ben was like night and day. But if you have a 2192 and a HEDD already, I'd say I'm sure your money could be utilized better in other areas.
Hi Rick! are you talking about SETAI Recording Studios?
Old 16th November 2008
  #13
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

sure am. you're the guy i met that day with the Focals right?
Old 16th November 2008
  #14
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UpNSmoke's Avatar
 

Thanks for the post rickrock305 - I hate to break up this little soiree, but here's what I'm going to do - being a true slut and all...

I'm already too damn intrigued if this is going to make a difference, so we're going to demo one and see. I'll post my results after the fact - they'll be anything but scientific but I'll do my best to translate my experience for the rest of you whether the Isochrone OCX did in fact make a difference to my ears (and several others)..

In the meantime, OCX users, feel free to jump in..
Old 16th November 2008
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
sure am. you're the guy i met that day with the Focals right?
Yeah!
How are you Rick!
Yeah I remember you!
Whats going on?
Old 16th November 2008
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
Thanks for the post rickrock305 - I hate to break up this little soiree, but here's what I'm going to do - being a true slut and all...

I'm already too damn intrigued if this is going to make a difference, so we're going to demo one and see. I'll post my results after the fact - they'll be anything but scientific but I'll do my best to translate my experience for the rest of you whether the Isochrone OCX did in fact make a difference to my ears (and several others)..

In the meantime, OCX users, feel free to jump in..
With the OCX you may feel a difference that may be matter of personal preference ....but with the 10M...then is not a difference,,,is just another level!
Undeniable!!
Old 16th November 2008
  #17
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UpNSmoke's Avatar
 

Reuven

I wish I could afford that 10M! I'm sure it's amazing on a whole new level other clocks aren't..

All right, so I found a post that offered me enough of the information I was looking for:

Big Ben vs. Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX

And to top it off, I think this quote pretty much sums up how I feel at this point:

"...But differences in the analog stages, components and layout of a converter are typically more audible than the addition of an external clock." - jdunn

Michael
Old 16th November 2008
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
the Isochrone OCX with the 10M is an amazing setup, the difference it made over a Big Ben was like night and day. But if you have a 2192 and a HEDD already, I'd say I'm sure your money could be utilized better in other areas.
Yes well, I believe the OP was referring to the Oven-Based OCX only, without the 10M [which is one of the best setups I've ever heard, besides the Grimm] and I don't think I would have a question about clocking my studio [no matter what verters I was running] with that setup. Perhaps this is a very good reason to upgrade to the OCX, so that you can later upgrade to the 10M. Although that is a very expensive system, and certainly at that point it MUST REALLY MATTER TO YOU!!

Just my 2 cents
Old 16th November 2008
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahiknow View Post
Not to beat a dead horse. The feeling in sales is that if they can get you bring one home "for evaluation", and you have enough money to buy one, they pretty much have a sale.
Interesting perspective, but I can assure you that these products sell themselves. If you don't think its matters when you hook it up, you can send it back to your dealer and buy something of more importance, or get your money back.
Old 16th November 2008
  #20
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There have always been disagreements between the theorists and people who actually listen when it comes to clocking.

The theorists will tell you that it is always better to use internal clocks. I often get the feeling these people have not done much actual listening, just reading.

First you need to listen.

Second, you need to do blind tests.

Third, you need to do this in your studio with your exact setup. You need to hear the cumulative effect of that clock throughout your setup (that can be different in someone else's studio).


If you repeatedly pick the external clock in blind testing as sounding subjectively "better" then buy it instead of a coffee machine. If not, buy the coffee machine.


Following the above procedure, I've picked external clocks over the internal clock of the Digi 192 and Benchmark converters (which are supposed to so thoroughly buffer the incoming clock that you can't hear a difference -so much for theory). I haven't tried it with your particular converters.

P.S. The OCX kicks ass, but make sure you listen to the 10M before you consider it. I was not sold on it.
Old 16th November 2008
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
Reuven

I wish I could afford that 10M! I'm sure it's amazing on a whole new level other clocks aren't..

All right, so I found a post that offered me enough of the information I was looking for:

Big Ben vs. Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX

And to top it off, I think this quote pretty much sums up how I feel at this point:

"...But differences in the analog stages, components and layout of a converter are typically more audible than the addition of an external clock." - jdunn

Michael
I tested both and both are good.
The Big Ben will give you a bump in the low end with a bit of overall color.
The OCX will give you a wider stereo image and a very clear sound.
Old 17th November 2008
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
There have always been disagreements between the theorists and people who actually listen when it comes to clocking.

The theorists will tell you that it is always better to use internal clocks. I often get the feeling these people have not done much actual listening, just reading.

First you need to listen.

Second, you need to do blind tests.

Third, you need to do this in your studio with your exact setup. You need to hear the cumulative effect of that clock throughout your setup (that can be different in someone else's studio).

Old 22nd November 2008
  #23
Antelope

Hey YeahIknow,

Who reported they we're "struggling financially", that's news to me and in fact is not at all true.

Also, as far as frying your "gonads", we use Rubidium, which is not a radioactive isotope and is perfectly safe.

We conduct demos all the time and never ask for people to "sign" things and never pressure anyone to make a purchase.

You obviously have a right to your opinions on things, I just wanted to clarify some stuff you threw out there that is either untrue or suggesting things that aren't indeed valid (atomic being unsafe, or in-studio demos being high pressure).

I should also add, we perform all warranty and non-warranty repairs here in the US, so it's also not accurate to imply we don't handle these issues, though they are rare, in an effective manner. In fact, our products rarely show up for repair or on eBay, for that matter. We also take part in the Sweetwater 2 year warranty program, because of our confidence in our product's durability and their fast turn arounds in their own service center.

Kind Regards,

Marcel James
Antelope Audio
Old 22nd November 2008
  #24
AB3
Lives for gear
 

I love the OCX clock. I wish I could hear the 10M. But it is out of my $$ range anyway. But I really like what the OCX does to my Lynx Aurora converter.

How much better can the 10M be? It cost about 5 times as much. Is it cost effective versus the OCX?
Old 22nd November 2008
  #25
10M question

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
I love the OCX clock. I wish I could hear the 10M. But it is out of my $$ range anyway. But I really like what the OCX does to my Lynx Aurora converter.

How much better can the 10M be? It cost about 5 times as much. Is it cost effective versus the OCX?
Good to hear you like the OCX AB3. Is it worth it? Well, it depends on your needs and the gear you're clocking. Different converters, different levels of sonic differences. It's good to have a listen, that way you'll know. Some clients are quite amazed, some feel it's subtle. In my experience, the better the room and more accurate the monitoring etc, the better the results.

Trinity (our new 64 bit triple clock with HD video clocking) is going to start shipping next month and it's another level, on it's own, beyond OCX, so that one with the 10M is where many top rooms in LA have been turning.

Bottom line, where are you located? I can do my best to help facilitate a demo in your studio. Again, I'm pleased you like the OCX and nice of you to weigh in.

Regards,

Marcel James
Antelope Audio
[email protected]
Old 22nd November 2008
  #26
Gear Head
 

Igor Levin-->Aardvark-->Aardsync-->THEE clock in industry-->Aardvark goes under, and from ashes rises a phoenix that is known as Antelope Audio-->10M-->Audio Goodness


second = 9,192,631,770 variations of the radiation state of the cesium 133 atom.

atomic clock - Introduced in 1966. Cesium based atomic clock. Maintained by U.S. Navy. Most accurate clock in the world. Scientifically estimated to be accurate to only 1 second drift every 25 million years. Airlines, military, satellites all synced to Atomic Clock.

AES Grade One Crystal Oscillator - 1 pulse per million

Antelope Audio Crystal Oscillator - .1 Pulses per Million accuracy.

10M Rubidium Atomic Clock - 100,000X more accurate than crystal oscillator. Accurate within 1 sample every 8 days. So, if you have a song that is 8 days long, you'll get some jitter.



I left out ALOT of information, but gave enough to help make an educated decision. I am not an employee of Antelope Audio, lol, just a current student who has been taught and knows better.



for the original poster, you have a great set up already, an OCX will make minimal difference UNLESS you resolve it to the 10M, which will take you to another level, but will cost you an additional $6,000.


An OXC + 10M = $8,000.


Now with that info, you are better equipped to make decision. If you have $8,000 go for it!
Old 23rd November 2008
  #27
Gear Head
 





wow, being a student I am so naive. I should blindly subscribe to theories presented on Bruno Putzey's forums as well.


But being a student who studies under working professionals, knowing that many professional engineers HEAR an improvement, knowing that many professional studios use the 10M, I'm willing to stick my neck out and say that the 10M is a great clock!




Old 10th December 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 

i hear diferent clocks affect the way chips make the harmonics recorded or reproduced in the sound,
"they sound different"
if you have a verry nice OFC wordclock cable, and clean stable AC. and crystals are in warm room/rack temperature.
bad wordclock/spdif cables give blur highs.
cold room, affects the crystals vibration.
like ice, h2o and h2o steam are the same, but a different molecular vibration/speed.

ocx crispy highs,
drawmer m-clock powerfull lows and mid bass. transparent mids. "warmer highs" not crispy or bright but diferent,
like TUBE vs. Class-A highs and mids.

Alesis Ai.2 nice. not in the big boys league, but close & better than all included clocks in soundcards/digital consoles/rack units ive heard so far.

the others, mutec iclock, dCs 995, verona, scarlaty, big ben, uad2192, atomic clocks teac esoteric antelope 10m, dont know.

dont forget to turn off DDS in RME or Synchrolock in Lynx AES.
Old 9th April 2009
  #29
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sleepwalker's Avatar
 

The UA has multiple clock outs. Use that and be done with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNSmoke View Post
UBK,

Thanks for the response - but I feel that this bit of "minutae" ,as you so put, is a very important question, being that there are in effect three clocks being synced and it is being used for our mastering studio. I've seen engineers take such high-end gear like RADAR systems, Lavry, etc and clock them with external word clocks and claim that there is a discernible difference in the sonic character - whether this is good or bad, is a subjective topic based on the users taste..

I've seen a lot of snake-oil on GS, but a word clock distribution device serves both a utility function (master word clock device) and an aesthetic one ( improving imagining, etc)..

I'm still extemely interested in hearing from somone with first-hand experience using the Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX and/or UA 2192 as a word clock distribution device. This would probably be more constructive than telling me to spend the money on a coffee machine

Michael
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