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HELP!! in Cabling my new HD3 Studio
Old 22nd March 2003
  #1
Gear Nut
 

HELP!! in Cabling my new HD3 Studio

hi everyone

i just got an HD3 system with some extras and
would like to know the best way to do the cabling.


i'll be doing basically some
Tracking, Mixing, Video Editing and Pre- Production
any comments are welcomed!,

here's what i have and the solution that i have (further down)
(please let me know if there's a better way to do the cabling)


~ Pro Control 24 Faders & Edit Pack
~ 192 I/O with A/D expansion card
~ MIDI I/O
~ PRE I/O
~ SYNC I/O
~ Glyph Trip (2) 36GB Cheetahs, VXA, CD-R
~ MAC Dual 1.25 G4 (Dual Boot)
~ Apple 23" Cinema Display
~ Groove Tubes VIPRE
~ Yamaha NS-10's with Hot House One Thousand Power Amp
~ Mackie HR-824
~ Behringer Powerplay Pro Headphone Amp
~ Furman AR power conditioner
~ Bass POD
~ POD XT
~ Neumann M149
~ KORG Triton


this is what i have planned as for cabling it
there are 4 digi cables so far
(Please let me know if i'm in the right path here!!!)


~ Speakers:
NS-10 --> DB-25 to XLR Males (Mains in P Control)(power amp)
Mackies ---> 3/4 Alt + (NO IDEA in cables)

~ Pro Control
DB-25 to DB-25R (Reverse)
Out of 192 into Pro Control Audio 1 or 2 (need help)

~ VIPRE
XLR to DB-25
VIPRE out to 192 In (1 to 8 or 9 to 16)

~ PRE I/O
DB-25 to DB-25
PRE out to 192 (1 to 8 or 9 to 16)

~ Triton
MIDI I/O to audio input (???????????)


i'm kind of burned out after building the studio from scratch
2 months straight (7 days a week non stop)
my brain is in need of some PRO help, heh
so if anyone can help me out with this matter thet would be great


maybe this post could help anyone starting like me to get it going

thanks in advance to all the Slutz

VIVA LOS SLUTZ!!!! yuktyy

Charles Rivera
Mastersonics Media Inc.
Puerto Rico
Old 22nd March 2003
  #2
Gear Nut
 

almost forgot

where i should patch the headphone amp (Behringer)?

also
i need a battery backup unit

which one would i need and for what components?
i was thinking for the G4, Glyph, 23" and Pro Control
is this ok?

let me know
thanks,
Charles
Old 22nd March 2003
  #3
Gear Nut
 

anyone please?

:eek:
Old 22nd March 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Re: HELP!! in Cabling my new HD3 Studio

ok, let's look at it one step at a time :



Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ Speakers:
NS-10 --> DB-25 to XLR Males (Mains in P Control)(power amp)
Mackies ---> 3/4 Alt + (NO IDEA in cables)
not sure what you mean here. THe NS-10's are connected to the amplifier right ? and the AMP input receives a signal from the DB25 coming from the ProControl. (7/8 are the mains)

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ Pro Control
DB-25 to DB-25R (Reverse)
Out of 192 into Pro Control Audio 1 or 2 (need help)

no ... that is wrong. unless you want to create a surround setup only.

I think what you need is a pacth. not only for this section but for your whole setup. part of that patch could be normalised / part half normalised.

Do you do surround ?? not from the speakers I see so I'm going to presume you don't. You only need 2 channels of that 192 to go to the ProControl. lets say channel 1/2. And the connections need to be done on the input 2 connector on the PC.
Connect both DB25 connections to a patch and then make output 1/2 of the 192 communicate with input 7/8 of the 'input 2 DB25' of the PC. Those are assigned to the PC main ins. The other ones on that DB25 are source inputs 1-3 ... usually assigned to CD / DAT / 2 track players. But are also used in surround modes where the PC is used to monitor.


Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ VIPRE
XLR to DB-25
VIPRE out to 192 In (1 to 8 or 9 to 16)

~ PRE I/O
DB-25 to DB-25
PRE out to 192 (1 to 8 or 9 to 16)

again ... my advice would be to consider a patch. either path is an option ... a patch between them allows flexability.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ Triton
MIDI I/O to audio input (???????????)
Midi I/O to audio input ??? I don't get that one. Your midi I/O only connects to your midi devices and to the mac.(USB) it doesn't have audio connections.



Hope this clears up some things ...


Another advice is that you might wanna have your digidesign dealer to pop over to your place and give you a hand with that setup. For that kinda setup it is the least he could / should do.


Good luck
Old 22nd March 2003
  #5
Gear Nut
 

hi C.Lambrechts

thanks so much for helping as always!,

maybe i wasn't clear enough on a couple of topics here
let me clear it up a bit...

i spoke to both Digidesign Customer Service and my Supplier
and this was the answer that i got so far (this 4 cables)
that's why i wanted to share it here since i wasn't 100% sure

what i really need to know (if you could help)
is to choose the right cables and description of them
plus you mentioned patchbays and i totally agree
any extra help would be great on:
(how many bays, brand, TT or 1/4, hardwired etc...)


~ Speakers:
NS-10 --> DB-25 to XLR Males (Mains in P Control)(power amp)
Mackies ---> 3/4 Alt + (NO IDEA in cables)

i understand about the NS-10 but
how about the Mackies
how i patch them in?



~ Triton
MIDI I/O to audio input (???????????)

what i meant was,

Midi out from the Triton to Midi IN of the MIDI I/O
audio out of the Triton to ????
either the PRE or 192, right???



so as you can see i'm a little confused here
i spoke a couple of times to both (Digi CS and my Supplier)
even called Sweetwater but they were unclear too.
i just wanted to ask real users out there
about a real world connection.




is there anything else should i need please let me know
i just want to make sure that the cables that i buy are the right ones!
i wouldn't mind paying a little for piece of mind

C.Lambrechts

i would like to thank you very much
since you are always there willing to help a newbie
no matter what and that's a lot in my book


regards,
Charles
Old 22nd March 2003
  #6
jho
Lives for gear
 
jho's Avatar
 

Hi Charles,

There is no question that you want to bring everything to the patch bays for maximum flexibility.

If you are this uncertain, I feel it would be a good experience to have your patch bays layouts professionally drawn up. After all, you spent a small fortune on your gear. This part would be cheap. And you'd learn at the same time.

I'm sure there are plenty of others out there, but one of them is Gary at Atlanta Pro Audio @ 404-329-9494. He can refer you to their patch bay guy. Then you can email him your gear list and they can design the bays and sell or recommend the cables you need to connect it all up.

I used someone they recommended a few years back and I received the layouts on excel spreadsheets and they were very easy to understand and wire myself.

It's cheaper than potentially damaging your equipment, and easier than beating your head against the wall
Old 22nd March 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

start by reading some patchbay articles to understand how a patchbay works :

http://www.audioschool.fsnet.co.uk/B...patchbays.html

and

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

read the section audio wiring in 'fitting out/electrics'

those should get you started on the basic principles of how a patchbay works and is designed.

Like Jho points out ... you might wanna bring someone in to do the layout for you. If you do make sure it's someone who knows what he's doing and understands all about possible problems you can run into when wiring a studio setup like yours. You'll have to watch out for groundloops / earth connections / proper wiring between balanced and unbalanced gear etc etc ....


Now for your specific questions :

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics
what i really need to know (if you could help)
is to choose the right cables and description of them
plus you mentioned patchbays and i totally agree
any extra help would be great on:
(how many bays, brand, TT or 1/4, hardwired etc...)
stay away from the cheap ones ... get professional balanced ones, neutrik for example makes crappy ones and good ones. general rule in patchbays IMVHO is stay away from the cheap ones. A one unit patchbay (depending on TT or 1/4 ..) will cost you like 250$ and more. There's plenty in the 100$ range but stay away from those ... nothing but trouble IMVHO.

TT or 1/4 or any other format is up to you. I would go for TT (GOOD ONES !!!!!) ... they're more expensive then 1/4 but save a lot of space. consider it an investment for the future ... unlike a lot of gear ... patchbays can last a lifetime if they're good. Neutrik makes TT ones that have little 'clipses' at the backside so you don't have to solder the TRS connections ... very handy.

Also get BALANCED ones / and you should be able to change functionality for each connection between half and full normalised.


Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ Speakers:
NS-10 --> DB-25 to XLR Males (Mains in P Control)(power amp)
Mackies ---> 3/4 Alt + (NO IDEA in cables)

i understand about the NS-10 but
how about the Mackies
how i patch them in?

In case of a patch :

hook up the DB25 cable coming from the ProControl OUT to the first eight connections (in correct order of course) / TOP row / backside of the patch.

NS-10 connected to the amplifier / amplifier L-R inputs connected to the backside of the patch / bottom row / connections 7-8 ... that should hook up the NS10's to the PC main out.

Those mackies are active right ?? ... then you hook up the mackie inputs to the bottom row / backside of the patch under 3-4 ... ALT monitors on the ProControl.


Without a patch :

AMP input (XLR ?) to BD25 cable XLR 7-8 for the mains

Mackie input (XLR ?) to DB25 cable XLR 3-4 for the ALT monitors.


hope that's clear.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastersonics

~ Triton
MIDI I/O to audio input (???????????)

what i meant was,

Midi out from the Triton to Midi IN of the MIDI I/O
audio out of the Triton to ????
either the PRE or 192, right???
If you have a PRE you go to the PRE of course ... line inputs. Then from the PRE to the 192. The 192 is a AD convertor ... you cannot control the level of the signal you bring in. In case of synths that's what you want to do so ... into the PRE lines.

Again ... you can bring all the inputs and outputs from PRE / 192 / synths onto a patch and have full flexibility there.



A patchbay layout side note ..... if you wanna do / learn about patch layout yourself (the hard way grggt ) ... make a sketch / drawing of the patchbay .... something like this :


O O O O O O ..........

O O O O O O ..........

start by filling writing ALL your possible outputs on the top line :

Then add the inputs you want to connect them with on the bottom line ...


do the same for the 192 and the PRE ... Outs on the top .... whatever you want to connect to it on the bottom.


Those are your backside connections you'll have to make. Think practicle ... the idea of a patch is to make as little as possible front connections but leave the possibility open to 're-patch' if necessary.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #8
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Honestly, if your asking how to wire the monitors to the console and want to wire Midi to audio I'd highly recommend hiring someone with a clue. The first call I'd make is to the place you bought your gear from. Then again ... that might not be the best idea if they told you to wire Midi outs to audio in's...

Best of luck with it,
Old 23rd March 2003
  #9
Gear Nut
 

jho

thanks so much for your positive post
i will contact a couple of experts on this first thing monday


C.Lambrechts

thanks again for taking the time and the great info
i think i will go with the patchbays (good ones)

i will definetely contact a few pro's regarding this
thanks again


Jay Kahrs

i think you misunderstood what i wrote
i know for a fact that you don't do the MIDI to audio
please understand that i'm kind of burnt with all the construction etc...
and i needed to confirm the wiring of the system
since i know there's more than one way in doing so
cable wise.

nonetheless
i would like to thank you for taking the time and write
and help me out

thanks a lot to everyone for their help
i'm hoping i can get this thing over by this coming week
and i will post and let you know what happened

regards,
charles



regards
Old 23rd March 2003
  #10
Gear Nut
 

almost forgot

what would be a good UPS for this system
and what would be the critical units to connect

i was thinking

~ G4
~ Apple Cinema Display
~ Glyph Trip
~ Pro Control

any other ones?

thanks,
Charles
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