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VF 14 M tube for $1800!!!!!!!!!! Condenser Microphones
Old 31st October 2008
  #1
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Jetblack's Avatar
 

VF 14 M tube for $1800!!!!!!!!!!

what the fu*k... does money grow on trees for these people?

TELEFUNKEN VF-14 M Tube for Neumann U47 Microphone VF14 - eBay (item 250313815393 end time Oct-30-08 16:01:36 PDT)
Old 31st October 2008
  #2
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but it has the "M" on it
Old 31st October 2008
  #3
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It's not even tested... jeez.

How hard is it to make these VF-14s... even if you had to hand make them like that French guy, there'd be profit to be had.
Old 31st October 2008
  #4
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That's not bad for a NOS NIB VF-14M, considering the market on those tubes. Sure, it's expensive as hell but when you think about the mic it's going in, $1,800 ain't so bad. Tube prices are skyrocketing despite the poor economic situation in the US. That tube will probably be worth close to $5K in about 5 years. I'll bump this thread when it happens.
Old 31st October 2008
  #5
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOWIE View Post
That's not bad for a NOS NIB VF-14M, considering the market on those tubes. Sure, it's expensive as hell but when you think about the mic it's going in, $1,800 ain't so bad. Tube prices are skyrocketing despite the poor economic situation in the US. That tube will probably be worth close to $5K in about 5 years. I'll bump this thread when it happens.

It's almost bargain for M nowdays.
But anyway I don't find it functionally worth so much to spend money on that anyway.
Old 31st October 2008
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post

It's almost bargain for M nowdays.
But anyway I don't find it functionally worth so much to spend money on that anyway.
I can't even recall when was the last time I saw a M for sale
Old 31st October 2008
  #7
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jjblair's Avatar
I spent $1,500 on a non "M," with the guarantee that it worked and was quiet. Given the market for these and that people wound up paying over $2,000 for what turned out to be counterfeit VF14s (UF14s that had been altered to say VF14), this is not a bad deal at all.

Besides, if you are using a proper PSU, it should last 25 years or more.
Old 31st October 2008
  #8
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetblack View Post
what the fu*k... does money grow on trees for these people?

depends on the tree.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 31st October 2008
  #9
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My only concern are the scratches on the tube....is it NOS or a used one.???..The buyer will have to tell us
Old 31st October 2008
  #10
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jjblair's Avatar
It's not unusual for NOS steel tubes to have this or even some paint flaking.
Old 31st October 2008
  #11
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donkerce's Avatar
 

JJ, does that M look correct to you?
Old 31st October 2008
  #12
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkerce View Post
JJ, does that M look correct to you?
I compared it against some photos, and I can't see anything like we found on the forgeries. The letter shapes and proportions appear to be correct. But that's really all I can tell you.
Old 1st November 2008
  #13
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Radioman's Avatar
 

I don't know if this way could be useful, but there is this french guy makes the triode itself
DIY Triode 1

and this one too
DIY Triode 2

while ECONCO brand refurbish the (expensive) EIMAC exhausted transmission tube.
Maybe asking them about the possibility of a VF14 recovering should result in an economical solution while the "new old stock" prices are like these...
Maybe there could be other similar TFK underrated (and cheaper) tubes to take away from some items for the VF14 restoring.
Old 1st November 2008
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
I don't know if this way could be useful, but there is this french guy makes the triode itself
DIY Triode 1

and this one too
DIY Triode 2

while ECONCO brand refurbish the (expensive) EIMAC exhausted transmission tube.
Maybe asking them about the possibility of a VF14 recovering should result in an economical solution while the "new old stock" prices are like these...
Maybe there could be other similar TFK underrated (and cheaper) tubes to take away from some items for the VF14 restore.
WOW guy is real gearslut
Old 1st November 2008
  #15
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Radioman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
WOW guy is real gearslut
Maybe someone of the few actual tube maker (Svetlana, Sowtek and few other brands) could be available for doing this kind of work. Someone could ask (for example) to Sowtek, but it's not easy to find a Russian speaking "gearlutzer", don't you think so ? ;-)
Old 1st November 2008
  #16
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
Someone could ask (for example) to Sowtek, but it's not easy to find a Russian speaking "gearlutzer", don't you think so ? ;-)
It's actually much easier to find Russian speaking gearslut than to expect Svetlana/Sovtek to make right tubeheh
Old 1st November 2008
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOWIE View Post
That's not bad for a NOS NIB VF-14M, considering the market on those tubes. Sure, it's expensive as hell but when you think about the mic it's going in, $1,800 ain't so bad. Tube prices are skyrocketing despite the poor economic situation in the US. That tube will probably be worth close to $5K in about 5 years. I'll bump this thread when it happens.
I've just got quoted for 5K from "Allegrosound" in LA: * AllegroSound * Original Reference Tubes *

Here is the email I've got from them regarding a VF14 tube:
"
US$5k + pk/frt.
For your alternate consideration:
NOS Telefunken UF-14, US$2k + pk/frt.
same tube with lower filament voltage;
ps requires mod to use this tube."


unbelievable
Old 1st November 2008
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
I've just got quoted for 5K from "Allegrosound" in LA: * AllegroSound * Original Reference Tubes *

Here is the email I've got from them regarding a VF14 tube:
"
US$5k + pk/frt.
For your alternate consideration:
NOS Telefunken UF-14, US$2k + pk/frt.
same tube with lower filament voltage;
ps requires mod to use this tube."


unbelievable
Well, it looks like I'm bumping this thread about 4 years, 11 months and 29 days early then! heh
Now that we have established that we're at the $5K price-point, I think that someone will find it worth-while to make an honest re-creation of this tube. And, after that happens, we slutz will argue that they don't sound as good because they haven't aged like the 50 year old tubes.
Old 1st November 2008
  #19
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First, the VF14 is a pentode.

Secondly, recreating tubes is not an easy thing. If it were, Svetlana and those other guys would be making 12AX7s that sounded as good as old Telefunkens.

Third, these tubes are not currently going for $5k anywhere else. Rick at Allegro routinely asks ridiculous prices that do not reflect the actual market value. His claim is that he has testing devices that nobody else has, and he can select the best tube. Whatever. I'm so over that guy, his audiophile bull**** and insane prices. He sold me some alleged Tele AC701s that turned out to RFT AC761s that had been repainted, and then would not refund me when I discovered what they were.

The only promising lead on new VF14s so far seems to point to T-USA's efforts, but nobody I implicitly trust has had a chance to test them yet, so the jury is still out. It does look like the most promising lead yet, though. My hope is that they managed to pull it off.
Old 1st November 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
First, the VF14 is a pentode.

Secondly, recreating tubes is not an easy thing. If it were, Svetlana and those other guys would be making 12AX7s that sounded as good as old Telefunkens.
ECONCO doesn't make EIMAC RF tubes from scratch, they opens flaw tubes and change or refurbish only the exhausted parts like a mechanic repairs only the broken part of an engine and don't make the whole automobile, and other experienced guys could try to do the same if someone talking them about the VF14.

Econco do this work from years because 100% new EIMAC tubes are very expensive (1300 USD maximum), what can they think about the refurbishment of a audio pentode 20 times smaller than a RF tube but costing from 2 to 4 times more the more expensive EIMAC RF tubes ?
Old 2nd November 2008
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Third, these tubes are not currently going for $5k anywhere else. Rick at Allegro routinely asks ridiculous prices that do not reflect the actual market value. His claim is that he has testing devices that nobody else has, and he can select the best tube. Whatever. I'm so over that guy, his audiophile bull**** and insane prices. He sold me some alleged Tele AC701s that turned out to RFT AC761s that had been repainted, and then would not refund me when I discovered what they were.
That's really sucks. Isn't that illegal ? when I've asked him about the tube he first asked me how much am i willing to pay for it ? I've wrote him a number and he didn't even write me back, I've wrote him a few weeks afterwards and he came back to me with this ridicules price. when I've seen these tubes on Tubedepot going for 2K i thought that's expensive but this guy is really taking advantage on the VF-14 situation in a very ugly way. at least in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
The only promising lead on new VF14s so far seems to point to T-USA's efforts, but nobody I implicitly trust has had a chance to test them yet, so the jury is still out. It does look like the most promising lead yet, though. My hope is that they managed to pull it off.
I hope so to, but i don't understand why they don't sell them, I've heard they have bought 50 pounds of the original material for the filament, it will be a huge blessed service for all U47 owners if they have nailed it and sell it as a spare part. until someone will really check them out they remains a big mystery to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
ECONCO doesn't make EIMAC RF tubes from scratch, they opens flaw tubes and change or refurbish only the exhausted parts like a mechanic repairs only the broken part of an engine and don't make the whole automobile, and other experienced guys could try to do the same if someone talking them about the VF14.
I've just sent two VF14 i recently bought for spares to my U47 to Andreass Grosser in Berlin for evaluation and cleaning. i really hope they are (or he will get them to) good shape
Old 2nd November 2008
  #22
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TWO spares? Hell, those will last you forty or more years on their own.
Old 2nd November 2008
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
TWO spares? Hell, those will last you forty or more years on their own.
yeah ! which means my U47 will last original forever heh

i'm waiting to hear from Andreas, i hope he will be able to get them to "M" factory specs.. i mean they test good ("Gut") but i want them perfect thumbsup

Does anyone has an experience with revitalize \ improve a VF-14 ?
Old 2nd November 2008
  #24
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You can't take a tube and make it into an "M" spec tube, if it failed the tests in the first place. You can revitalize SOME tubes, but you can't improve a tube that has never been used. The revitalization process has to do with reversing some of the effects of the U47 running the tube at a voltage far under what it was intended for. If a new tube suffers from noise or microphonics, you can't "improve" it. Your only choice in that situation is to supply a higher voltage to the VF14, which in some cases will lower the noise.
Old 2nd November 2008
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
You can't take a tube and make it into an "M" spec tube, if it failed the tests in the first place. You can revitalize SOME tubes, but you can't improve a tube that has never been used. The revitalization process has to do with reversing some of the effects of the U47 running the tube at a voltage far under what it was intended for. If a new tube suffers from noise or microphonics, you can't "improve" it. Your only choice in that situation is to supply a higher voltage to the VF14, which in some cases will lower the noise.

OK, aren't the VF-14 have a relatively pretty consistent performance ? i mean a good condition non M tube will probably work good wont it ? i find it quite hard to believe that Neumann laboratory has tested all the VF-14's in existence because about 27000 of them was made and used and not only for Neumann mics.
Bill Bradley has told me his method is open the tubes up and clean them up, then you can bring them back to original factory specs.
Andreas Grosser have told me the tube should measure:

10->12 mA Emission
100 - > 102 dBU NOISE WIDE PEAK
112 - > 114 dBA DIN AUDIO NOISE RMS
and low microphonic..

Then they are good for use in U47's
I have a great original VF-14M tube in my mic, the far future is my main concern..
Old 2nd November 2008
  #26
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Open them up? I'm having a hard time understanding how he opens them up and then reseals the vacuum.

I'm using non Ms. One is quieter than the other, but both are usable. Sure there are some that Neumann did not test, I'm sure.
Old 3rd November 2008
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Open them up? I'm having a hard time understanding how he opens them up and then reseals the vacuum.
If Tele USA are doing it it can be done.. what other way can tubes be fixed without open them up ?
Old 3rd November 2008
  #28
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jjblair's Avatar
OK, first off, you have to have highly specialized equipment, and I doubt that Bill has it. Secondly, reconditioning dead or failing VF14s is done through the application of current to the tube, not by opening it up. It's called a vacuum tube, because there this a vacuum within the tube. Removing all the air and then sealing the tube back up is a difficult proposition. Besides, I'm not aware of anyway to open them up that does not destroy either the base or the metal tube.
Old 3rd November 2008
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
OK, first off, you have to have highly specialized equipment, and I doubt that Bill has it. Secondly, reconditioning dead or failing VF14s is done through the application of current to the tube, not by opening it up. It's called a vacuum tube, because there this a vacuum within the tube. Removing all the air and then sealing the tube back up is a difficult proposition. Besides, I'm not aware of anyway to open them up that does not destroy either the base or the metal tube.
X2
For them to say that that they are restoring VF-14s is a big claim and their reputation is already less than stellar...
Old 3rd November 2008
  #30
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Bowie, I think Tan Tan just misunderstands Bill. His site says, "Is your VF-14 U-47 noisy? Does it sound thin or crappy? Do you have a "bad" VF-14 tube lying around? We're likely to be able to help. We've successfully rejuvinated a number of "bad" VF-14's. You pay only if we're sucessful. Call - we'll talk." The usual method for this is the voltage method I spoke of. I'm not aware of any other method, particularly one that take the tube apart, and I really doubt Bill would claim to do that.
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