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E-cue,Jon, Bomb Guy, jules thrill and others : Is this a stupid mix technique
Old 19th March 2003
  #1
no ssl yet 
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E-cue,Jon, Bomb Guy, jules thrill and others : Is this a stupid mix technique

First to the guys I've been supposed to send stuff too I apologize for not getting it out yet. (Grad School has been kickin my ass so I've been scarce around these parts and music in general)
Anyway, Lately I've hardly had time to mix let alone get stuff out that I was supposed to. (I will still keep my promise and get each of you a copy of my album once it is mastered and pressed for your critique both artistically and from an engineering point (I have thick skin so you won't offend me I can only learn something))

With That said here's my question. I mix Hip Hop and RnB and I need the dRums to be NICE. It's hard to get the type of volume I need from the protools mixer without distorting (Of course I could lower all the other channels to make the relative volume of the drums louder but that results in other faders being lower than I like em in protools (can't really explain it but I have a level that works for me)

So this is what I've been doing let's say I have three variations of the kick comp/eq'd different ways (usually same plug so latency is not a prob). I route those signals to a mono bus I make a mono master fader (in case of clipping I can turn down the master level) and maybe 2 aux channels with that bus feeding them and I continue to duplicate the aux channels until I can get the kick as loud as I need it.

Does this make sense? Or has my brain been working so hard on school work that I'm overlooking something simple?
Old 19th March 2003
  #2
Re: E-cue,Jon, Bomb Guy, jules thrill and others : Is this a stupid mix technique

Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
First to the guys I've been supposed to send stuff too I apologize for not getting it out yet. (Grad School has been kickin my ass so I've been scarce around these parts and music in general)
Anyway, Lately I've hardly had time to mix let alone get stuff out that I was supposed to. (I will still keep my promise and get each of you a copy of my album once it is mastered and pressed for your critique both artistically and from an engineering point (I have thick skin so you won't offend me I can only learn something))

With That said here's my question. I mix Hip Hop and RnB and I need the dRums to be NICE. It's hard to get the type of volume I need from the protools mixer without distorting (Of course I could lower all the other channels to make the relative volume of the drums louder but that results in other faders being lower than I like em in protools (can't really explain it but I have a level that works for me)

So this is what I've been doing let's say I have three variations of the kick comp/eq'd different ways (usually same plug so latency is not a prob). I route those signals to a mono bus I make a mono master fader (in case of clipping I can turn down the master level) and maybe 2 aux channels with that bus feeding them and I continue to duplicate the aux channels until I can get the kick as loud as I need it.

Does this make sense? Or has my brain been working so hard on school work that I'm overlooking something simple?

No SSL,

It makes sense to a point.

The two instruments that will eat most of your mix dynamic range is kick and bass.

If you are not careful, you will eat it quick(remember this is PT) and you will start to overload the mix buss(even though in HD you have more headroom).

I would go with your first idea, to lower the other tracks(this will leave you more space as not to overload the mix buss).

I personally when sub/parallel compressing do not send all the tracks to a "master fader"(I don't even do this on an SSL). To my ears it eats some of the "bigness" of the tracks. I prefer to group and automate the tracks(I know its a big pain in the ass, but it sounds so much better). Also at the point you start to buss everything internally to a master fader, you will introduce some kind of latency(i think its like 6 samples).
Old 19th March 2003
  #3
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jazzius's Avatar
 

are you summing analog or in PT?...........i don't work with PT (i'm in VST land).....

....but in programs like Cubase SX or Logic it's impossible (or as good as) to clip a channel internally because the DAW has 32 bit resolution........the same goes for the master buss.....

.....the problem comes when you try to play these signals thru 16 or 24 bit converters, as it clips the signal on the way out.........i dunno, maybe PT works different......

.....what i do know is that some plugs in VST land won't let the signal go above 0dBFS (16bit) ..........waves linMB for instance.
Old 19th March 2003
  #4
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Re: E-cue,Jon, Bomb Guy, jules thrill and others : Is this a stupid mix technique

Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
So this is what I've been doing let's say I have three variations of the kick comp/eq'd different ways (usually same plug so latency is not a prob). I route those signals to a mono bus I make a mono master fader (in case of clipping I can turn down the master level) and maybe 2 aux channels with that bus feeding them and I continue to duplicate the aux channels until I can get the kick as loud as I need it.

Does this make sense? Or has my brain been working so hard on school work that I'm overlooking something simple?
Hmmm. I've re-read this about 6 times trying to make sure I understand what exactly you are doing. When you say "I continue to duplicate the aux channels until I can get the kick as loud as I need it", do you mean you are using aux sends similar to a mult? A screen shot sure would come in handy here.
Old 20th March 2003
  #5
no ssl yet 
Guest
I'm @ school (I think I live here LOL) I will post a screen shot when I get home

Yes ecue I am essentially using aux channels as mults to gain 6db per duplicate (I think thats right).

From Here I am loading the 2 bus but the mix is as I need it without Distortion in the individual channels. From here I simply set the master (2bus) fader as low as need be to avoid clipping.

While I'm on the subject of clipping I've read several posts where people speak of overloading the filter and compressorbank plugs for a "good " distortion. Is this an ok practice? I have always started my mixes with prefader monitor on and avoided any clipping in plugins

Is distorting the plug OK? Does it only work on certain plugs?

Am I missing something?

Again fellas thanks (Ecue I haven't forgotten your drum samples I'll mail em) Also I will try and post a screen shot later

Now I'm off to class LOL
Old 20th March 2003
  #6
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
are you summing analog or in PT?...........i don't work with PT (i'm in VST land).....

....but in programs like Cubase SX or Logic it's impossible (or as good as) to clip a channel internally because the DAW has 32 bit resolution........the same goes for the master buss.....

Actually, in Logic, you can clip a channel internally. Play a sine wave and pump it upover 0 and you'll hear distortion. If you don't hear then pump it up more.
Old 20th March 2003
  #7
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jazzius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
Actually, in Logic, you can clip a channel internally. Play a sine wave and pump it upover 0 and you'll hear distortion. If you don't hear then pump it up more.
you'll hear distortion 'cause you're clipping your converters on the way out. Just 'cause you hear distortion, it doesn't mean it is distorted in 32 bits-ville.
Old 21st March 2003
  #8
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
you'll hear distortion 'cause you're clipping your converters on the way out. Just 'cause you hear distortion, it doesn't mean it is distorted in 32 bits-ville.
No, I hear it even if I turn the logic outputs down.

Old 21st March 2003
  #9
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jazzius's Avatar
 

then something must be amiss
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