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PT HD, Analog Consoles and Mixing
Old 20th October 2008
  #1
Gear Head
 
Lord_Bafford's Avatar
 

PT HD, Analog Consoles and Mixing

Hey guys, long time listener, first time poster. A studio I'm at has a PT HD system and a Raindirk Symphony console.

I'd like to mix through the console and use the Eq's but it doesn't have flying faders. The problem is this means the EQ is always the last thing in the chainif I use plugins. Also if I use a compressor through the boards inserts, it's post fader in pro tools essentially screwing up my fader moves in PT and the compressors sound/settings.

How do others who have similar set ups do this? Is there a way to run the channel on the board as an insert so the EQ's (and the boardss insert) will be pre fader in PT? I like using the console and the console itself sounds great. I'm just wondering how I can set it up for mixing with automation without the console being the last thing in the chain?

Here's an example of what I'd like to be able to do:

PT signal>Console EQ>1176 or other outbaord compressor>protools fader for automation

I could then record my mix back into PT as a two track.


There's probably an obvious solution, but I haven't thought of it yet. Any help would be appreciated!
Old 20th October 2008
  #2
Quote:
How do others who have similar set ups do this?
Hardware Insert I/O plug in?
Old 20th October 2008
  #3
Gear Head
 
Lord_Bafford's Avatar
 

Where would I run the PT output on the console (line in, etc?) and what would the output be to patch back into PT?
Old 20th October 2008
  #4
when you do HW Insert, it's in your IO setup.

Example HW Insert 1, would go out interface output 1, and back in interface input 1.


usually your HW insert IO setup would start after 5, 'cause then your speaker outputs aren't an issue
Old 20th October 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 
robmix's Avatar
Depends what I'm using the hardware compressor for. I usually compress and EQ a bit ITB, then EQ and compress a bit more on the console, and with outboard. I find ITB rides help me stay in the sweet spot of the outboard compressor. It takes a minute to get used to but it works like a dream when you get it. Otherwise, as stated above, hardware inserts are the ticket.

And . . . out of PT, to the line in's on the console, stereo bus out back to PT.
Old 20th October 2008
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Bafford View Post
Where would I run the PT output on the console (line in, etc?) and what would the output be to patch back into PT?
As stated, you just need ONE DA and ONE AD to send and return signal back into PT before the Channel hits the PHYSICAL OUTPUT, which would then patch into the console. This would then get the processors before any automation, pan and other plug ins after the Hardware I/O plug in.

So, you need more channels of conversion, if you cannot spare as many DA/AD that you need for outboard insertion before automation.
Old 20th October 2008
  #7
Gear Head
 
Lord_Bafford's Avatar
 

Please forgive my ineptitude of grasping this (we all have to start somewhere).

I believe the patchbay is labeled as such (excluding outboard gear):

Console In (preamps)
Insert Out
Insert Return
Channel Group Outputs
Tape in (PT in)
Tape out (PT Out)
Channel Line Inputs
Channel Monitor Returns
Aux Outputs
Aux inputs

The inputs and outputs are all normalized to the corresponding channels on the console like they would be for an old tape machine.

I understand how to create hardware inserts in pro tools.

______________________________________________________________________
So for example, lets say I have a guitar track I want to use one of the consoles 32 EQ's on. The output of the track is Stereo 1-2 since that's where my speakers are connected. Let's say in Pro Tools I use hardware insert (I/O) #5.


I would then patch out of Tape Out #5 into _______ of desired console channel and then from _______ out of desired console channel to Tape In #5 to re-enter Pro Tools.
________________________________________________________________________________

Please help me by filling in the blanks. Thank you all so much for your help!
Old 21st October 2008
  #8
After you're last post I am having an extremely hard time understanding the signal flow of your room by your list. And in looking through your fill in the blanks passage, you say that Outputs of DA conversion 1-2 [stereo tracks] feed your speakers...Should those two tracks not feed console channels 1-2? That's what I do. Feed the console as many channels as you need for separation of the instrumentation [processing etc....]

Your DA [TAPE] Feeds the console right? If you have a 32 channel console; and you have 32 channels of AD/DA conversion, then you will need to establish a channel count for your processing in/out the "box". Say you only need 16 channels to separate your mix into individual channels or sub groups but you have 32 channel capability. You will have 16 channels of AD/DA that you can use to INSERT hardware before the channel automation in PT. Thus you would assign your Hardware I/O plug to any channels in your session that you need to process with outboard before automation, so you then proceed to assign the I/O plug in on the Stereo GTR tracks that are feeding 1-2, to outs 17-18 [not being used for DA] and patch your outboard EQ, or Compressor. Then you patch the signal BACK to the corresponding AD, which will then feed back through channels ONE and TWO on the console via the PHYSICAL OUTPUTS of the CHANNEL.

In writing this long explanation, I realize you are trying to simply use the equalizer on the channel apart from your mix, and unless there is a direct output of that channel POST EQ, then you'll have to use a buss send from that channel to the AD insert channel. You simply need to assign channel 32 [with your EQ setting] and de-assign it from your stereo buss, so its signal derives from the DA [send] and then it should return through the AD, thus getting it feeding BACK through whatever channels [1-2] you've assigned to the PHYSICAL outputs of your GTRS..

I have a strong feeling this makes no sense;
so let me know if I need to clarify anything;

This is just not something that its easily explained; because of the signal flow involved.
Old 18th November 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 

Ok i know im late on this post, but i have to say this, i think you guys are not considering something obvious and very very important, and that is AD & DA conversion. When you recorded into protools you did one Analog to Digital conversion, so ok, you have your big apogees or whatever and it sounds awesome, but.... when using protools inserts here is the deal, you have to translate that digital signal back to analog, and back to digital again, THOSE ARE 2 EXTRA CONVERSIONS (3 if you consider the first one you did while recording) and on top of that if after the insert you want to monitor on your console, add another conversion. AHHH but wait... thats not all, unless you are printing your master to a vinyl or cassette or whatever, its most likely that youll want to have a CD of your mix, add another AD conversion.... sooo we are talking roughly about 5 conversions between analog and digital, THATS NOT HEALTHY
Old 18th November 2008
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
lespaul666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Ok i know im late on this post, but i have to say this, i think you guys are not considering something obvious and very very important, and that is AD & DA conversion. When you recorded into protools you did one Analog to Digital conversion, so ok, you have your big apogees or whatever and it sounds awesome, but.... when using protools inserts here is the deal, you have to translate that digital signal back to analog, and back to digital again, THOSE ARE 2 EXTRA CONVERSIONS (3 if you consider the first one you did while recording) and on top of that if after the insert you want to monitor on your console, add another conversion. AHHH but wait... thats not all, unless you are printing your master to a vinyl or cassette or whatever, its most likely that youll want to have a CD of your mix, add another AD conversion.... sooo we are talking roughly about 5 conversions between analog and digital, THATS NOT HEALTHY

If you have good converters, outboard gear, and console, it's *more than healthy*.heh

It's just like using a stand alone multi-track machine.
Old 18th November 2008
  #11
Lives for gear
 
robmix's Avatar
I'd venture to say that many of the records your hear today have many A/D and D/A conversions going on. There just aren't many ways to avoid it if you want to use quality outboard gear with a DAW during the mix.
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