The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Vintage 1073's or something else? Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 8th October 2008
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
alexkemp's Avatar
 

Vintage 1073's or something else?

Hi guys, wondering if you could offer some advice...

I'd really like to own a couple of vintage 1073's, because they're such inspiring pieces. On the other hand, are they a good investment? At around 6k per (vintageking quote) that's an awful lot of money to sink into two pre's... for the same money I could get a lot of gear that would also produce some inspired recordings (500 series goodies plus maybe a pair of barefoot MM27's?).

And as the financial sky falls all around us, I'm not sure if its 'money in the bank' or if that even matters.

What would you do?
Old 8th October 2008
  #2
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Your alternative approach seems to be a far better one. Get a load of other gears if you've got 12 grand to spare.
After all your pieces in the recording and mixing chain is complete (as well as acoustics), and you've made enough money, go and get yourself some extras like the 1073. They're not a necessity. They sound wonderful, but so do other gears. Plus you'll be able to appreciate them more if you've got a better environment to use them in.
Old 8th October 2008
  #3
Lives for gear
 
choinga's Avatar
 

I listened to a couple 1073's and went with the GTQ2. I can't say I liked it 'better', but for the $$ I was able to get a very kick ass pre with plenty of mojo and spend what I saved elsewhere.

For $6k you could get a couple GTQ2's - 4 channels of creamy goodness...

Or, as you mentioned, save your money...and put it in your mattress.
Old 8th October 2008
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

Vintage 1073's

Another thing to consider on the vintage Neve gear is that you are looking at equipment that is 25-40 years old. Is VK refurbing and recapping them, and what is the warranty they are offering? VK is about the only company I would trust to buy old, eh, vintage pieces from, but this stuff is not factory fresh... There is magic in the old gear, but not if it's unreliable.

My $0.02

Dave/Suspect
Old 8th October 2008
  #5
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
fvck the hype and mystique of owning the original
if you want the 1073 sound and eq,Just get an Averill .
if you want something that sounds amazing and w two channels get an Aurora GTQ.[a little more detail in the hi's but the Neve vibe is completely there]
If you don't need any eq at all then get the Avedis module
Trust me,save your money man.
I have many vintage ones and the Aurora /averills.. and 6k for one module is a total joke.
Its just a mic amplifier..not a magic wand.
they all get you to the same place..the rest comes down to your own talent.

PS: the Barefoots are worth the money


..
Old 8th October 2008
  #6
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
I agree about the vintage pricing - overkill IMO.

Like others have said go with something else like the AMS Neve 1073 DPA/DPD, Avedis MA5 or Geoff Tanner's GTQ2 - all three are Class A x-former coupled pre's that sound great. If it must look like a modular Neve, then the BA might do the trick. If you are prepared to splash the big bucks, the AMS Neve re-issues are right there to be had...but...

I personally skipped buying two AMS Neve 1084's in the AMS rack (just under £5000, which i had ordered but soon cancelled) for the AMS Neve 1073 DPA, API 5500, Portico 5043 and 5033. All that (most in stereo) for the price of two pre's and basic eq's. I have since added a couple more Poritco's and things are just great for my little studio.

Get what you need, things that are going to be useful on a regular basis. Don't buy into trends or vintage hype - and save the $$$ at the same time.

Old 8th October 2008
  #7
500 series invites a world of different, super hi-quality sounds at extremely reasonable prices. I have two Avedis MA5's and two API 512c's that couldn't sound more different and couldn't sound more impressive for a plethora of applications.

I haven't gotten into any eq's or comp's for my lunchbox because I already have outboard stuff, and I'm not big into pre-eq's at the moment, but those are also options.

As for the GTQ2's... those are GREAT units that sound very impressive. I chose the lunchbox route, and I have not been disappointed.

So to answer your question: the "real" Neve's are a "cool" factor, but it's probably not worth your money if you're really honest with yourself.

God bless, brother - brad
Old 8th October 2008
  #8
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 

I tried the DPA, I tried chandler LTd1...didn't do it for me. great sounding unts but each was lacking a little something. I went with a ams neve 1084 with neve PSU and it sounds just perfect. I wouldn't go vintage because I can't afford to have a pre go bad on me in the middle of a session plus the ams sounds just like a new neve would have sounded 30 years ago
Old 8th October 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
fvck the hype and mystique of owning the original
if you want the 1073 sound and eq,Just get an Averill .
if you want something that sounds amazing and w two channels get an Aurora GTQ.[a little more detail in the hi's but the Neve vibe is completely there]
If you don't need any eq at all then get the Avedis module
Trust me,save your money man.
I have many vintage ones and the Aurora /averills.. and 6k for one module is a total joke.
Its just a mic amplifier..not a magic wand.
they all get you to the same place..the rest comes down to your own talent.

PS: the Barefoots are worth the money


..
+1 on everything badge said. if you just have to have the little N in front of it i would get the new ones. don't know how much they go for but they must be cheaper than $6K .
Old 8th October 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
Mdjice,

I agree with you and I don't at the same time (if i may so).

Whilst trying out the AMS Neve 1073 DPD along side the AMS Neve 1073 and 1084 modules in the AMS rack at the UK distributor, they all sounded 'near' identicle with the same mic and monitoring (via U87, PMC's and 8816). I really heard no such audible differences as to care which one sounded better.

However, with the 1084 eq nudged slightly in the slightest direction, the tonal change of the preamp was quite something and the same goes for the 1073 module. Perhaps, this is the change you hear and prefer. I soon realised that the DPD (or DPA) was no different (regarding the use of a good eq). I have been able to make serious tonal changes to my DPA via a single 5033 to a point where it can sound thick, lush, thin, harsh, smooth, airy, and anything else that comes to mind. I can understand if something just clicked better than something else (and naturally most would take the module look over the rack), but these units are all pretty much the same as far as the preamps are concerned. Of course the 1084 looks damn sexy and I would not pass up on a free pair heh
Old 8th October 2008
  #11
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
Mdjice,

I agree with you and I don't at the same time (if i may so).

Whilst trying out the AMS Neve 1073 DPD along side the AMS Neve 1073 and 1084 modules in the AMS rack at the UK distributor, they all sounded 'near' identicle with the same mic and monitoring (via U87, PMC's and 8816). I really heard no such audible differences as to care which one sounded better.

However, with the 1084 eq nudged slightly in the slightest direction, the tonal change of the preamp was quite something and the same goes for the 1073 module. Perhaps, this is the change you hear and prefer. I soon realised that the DPD (or DPA) was no different (regarding the use of a good eq). I have been able to make serious tonal changes to my DPA via a single 5033 to a point where it can sound thick, lush, thin, harsh, smooth, airy, and anything else that comes to mind. I can understand if something just clicked better than something else (and naturally most would take the module look over the rack), but these units are all pretty much the same as far as the preamps are concerned. Of course the 1084 looks damn sexy and I would not pass up on a free pair heh
here is the thing. the dpa/dpd is a GREAT sounding unit but the transformers inside are different then the ones you would get in a PSU + 1084/1083, maybe this is why it sounds a bit different.
I could not really tell the difference a/b solo tracks. the difference became more obvious when I started stacking vocals and that's what was important to me.
NOW. we are talking about a 1% to 5% difference here, nothing major...but I'm a real gearslutz and just could go the "simple" routeheh
Old 8th October 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
Hi Mdjice

Actually the transformers are exactly the same in the modules and rack versions. The only difference being - the DPA / DPD has no 'line' input transformer (that the modules do have). This was done to cut the cost of the unit according to AMS Neve.

My work around to this - passive D.W. Fearn stereo LP-1 into the mic inputs of the DPA...but you can take the easy route...lol.

Essentially though, if one is to use the DPA or DPD as a pair of professional microphone preamps, the lack of line input tranformers is not a real deal breaker given it's price and the saving you make depending where you buy it and how much you end up paying.

But on the whole, I think you made a great choice with the 1084.

ps: the only other thing I could think of that may account for the teeny 1-5% of audible difference between the module and rack version, could be related to the quality of the power supply. At almost £900, the AMS rack should have a greater power supply Vs the one built in to the DPA / DPD. Perhaps the small difference lies here, but I could not really hear it to be honest.
Old 8th October 2008
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I add my voice to the others recommending that you DO NOT buy the olde Neve modules for $6000.00.

The price is absurd and ye olden modules are not worth that because they are exactly as described---they are old and their history and provenance is not known.

New AMS-Neve 1073 or other AMS-Neve rebuild is worth the money because they are new, they sound virtually the same and they have a warranty. Besides, if we want AMS-Neve to be around as a company, we need to support them (even though they sometimes do not deserve it.)
Old 8th October 2008
  #14
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
Hi Mdjice

Actually the transformers are exactly the same in the modules and rack versions. The only difference being - the DPA / DPD has no 'line' input transformer (that the modules do have). This was done to cut the cost of the unit according to AMS Neve.

My work around to this - passive D.W. Fearn stereo LP-1 into the mic inputs of the DPA...but you can take the easy route...lol.

Essentially though, if one is to use the DPA or DPD as a pair of professional microphone preamps, the lack of line input tranformers is not a real deal breaker given it's price and the saving you make depending where you buy it and how much you end up paying.

But on the whole, I think you made a great choice with the 1084.

ps: the only other thing I could think of that may account for the teeny 1-5% of audible difference between the module and rack version, could be related to the quality of the power supply. At almost £900, the AMS rack should have a greater power supply Vs the one built in to the DPA / DPD. Perhaps the small difference lies here, but I could not really hear it to be honest.
yes it might be from the power supplies. again could I record using a DPD? absolutly!! I actually plan on getting a second 1084 along with a DP to get a totl of 4 neve pre with 2 eq.
Old 8th October 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
yes it might be from the power supplies. again could I record using a DPD? absolutly!! I actually plan on getting a second 1084 along with a DP to get a totl of 4 neve pre with 2 eq.
You lucky devil...you don't need two 1084's, just record the L & R channels one at a time heh
Old 8th October 2008
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
alexkemp's Avatar
 

WOW I've never seen so much unanimity on a gearslutz board in my whole LIFE!! I think I'm tearing up.... ; )

THANKS everybody for your opinions. It should be about gear that inspires and captures great music, not money in the mattress. Barefoots and new lunch box it is.

Now bring it in for a group hug.

: P

Alex
Old 8th October 2008
  #17
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkemp View Post
WOW I've never seen so much unanimity on a gearslutz board in my whole LIFE!! I think I'm tearing up.... ; )

THANKS everybody for your opinions. It should be about gear that inspires and captures great music, not money in the mattress. Barefoots and new lunch box it is.

Now bring it in for a group hug.

: P

Alex
XXOO ..
word up on the Barefoots..you won't regret it
Old 8th October 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
fvck the hype and mystique of owning the original
if you want the 1073 sound and eq,Just get an Averill .
if you want something that sounds amazing and w two channels get an Aurora GTQ.[a little more detail in the hi's but the Neve vibe is completely there]
If you don't need any eq at all then get the Avedis module
Trust me,save your money man.
I have many vintage ones and the Aurora /averills.. and 6k for one module is a total joke.
Its just a mic amplifier..not a magic wand.
they all get you to the same place..the rest comes down to your own talent.

PS: the Barefoots are worth the money


..
the more i read from roundbadge, the more i like this guy. his advise is relative and that's something that is lacking around here at times. there is indeed no magic wand. lots of options to get you into that sound and vibe, many of which will presumably be trouble free for 20+ years. as i mentioned in another thread yesterday, i trained on an 80 series desk and while i love the sound, especially for vocals, bass and drums, i won't lose a wink of sleep if i never work with a real neve module again.
Old 8th October 2008
  #19
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
The Neve sound is great if you have to have it, it just works. But pricing is just a little too far out of control right now. There are so many other great options these days as well.
Old 8th October 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

I picked up a BAE 1073 and it totally gets me there. I can't imagine what spending more money would buy you.

-R
Old 8th October 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 
FULL-DUPLEX's Avatar
 

BAE 1073 or Wunder PEQ1...
Old 8th October 2008
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

fashion statement

you will get the identical sound from any of the following as the1073s:
1063/1064/1066/1079/1080/1084/1085/1076/1089....

the 1064s are usually under 3k.

the 1084 or 1085 are the same as 1073 but have more eq points.

there are lots of reasons to love the neve stuff, but there are other mic pres, both vintage and new that are also great.
dont get taken in by some vintage audio dealer trying to sell you a sows ear, described as a silk purse:
quad 8.electrodyne,neotek,yamaha,adm,mci, ampex recorder electronics, spectrosonics, the list of mediocrity is endless....

other good VINTAGE preamps includes:
calrec,api,cadac,tube langevin, ua 610, there's more...

there are numerous remakes of neve and api mic pre's ( including my own) which are quite good and indistinguishable from the originals. call me if you want to talk. dan alexander 510 5271411
Old 8th October 2008
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Meriphew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
The Neve sound is great if you have to have it, it just works. But pricing is just a little too far out of control right now. There are so many other great options these days as well.
I totally agree. There's a huge abundance of incredible preamps available now - and almost all of them are quite a bit cheaper than Neve. I think Neve needs to take a long hard look at their pricing structure.
Old 8th October 2008
  #24
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FULL-DUPLEX View Post
BAE 1073 or Wunder PEQ1...
Completely different sounding
Old 8th October 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
dont get taken in by some vintage audio dealer trying to sell you a sows ear, described as a silk purse:
quad 8.electrodyne,neotek,yamaha,adm,mci, ampex recorder electronics, spectrosonics, the list of mediocrity is endless....

other good VINTAGE preamps includes:
calrec,api,cadac,tube langevin, ua 610, there's more...
Wha?

I dig some of that stuff!

Quad Eight, Electrodyne, Spectrasonics for example... you want to tell me that all of that is mediocre? A Spectrasonics 610, for example, is mediocre? Wowsers, OK then- I think it's a fabulous crunch box. Fwiw, I have some of the "good stuff" on your list as well- 1073's, UA 610, Langevins, etc to compare to.

Some of that stuff on your list is crap, sure, and there are specific units by some of those brands that suck, but not all of it sucks. IMHO.
Old 9th October 2008
  #26
Lives for gear
 

get a calrec
Old 9th October 2008
  #27
Lives for gear
I would concur with Roundbadge...I've had them all and I now own a MA5. To me, that was the closest to the vintage 1073 that I used all the time. The BAE 1073's are great, but you're paying for the faceplate. I would go with a GTQ-2 if you want EQ or two MA5's.
I tried the PEQ2's - wasn't just blown away...
Old 9th October 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 

I got your Dual class A Preamp and man it kicks serious ass! I'd love to see you incorporate an eq into it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
you will get the identical sound from any of the following as the1073s:
1063/1064/1066/1079/1080/1084/1085/1076/1089....

the 1064s are usually under 3k.

the 1084 or 1085 are the same as 1073 but have more eq points.

there are lots of reasons to love the neve stuff, but there are other mic pres, both vintage and new that are also great.
dont get taken in by some vintage audio dealer trying to sell you a sows ear, described as a silk purse:
quad 8.electrodyne,neotek,yamaha,adm,mci, ampex recorder electronics, spectrosonics, the list of mediocrity is endless....

other good VINTAGE preamps includes:
calrec,api,cadac,tube langevin, ua 610, there's more...

there are numerous remakes of neve and api mic pre's ( including my own) which are quite good and indistinguishable from the originals. call me if you want to talk. dan alexander 510 5271411
Old 9th October 2008
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
you will get the identical sound from any of the following as the1073s:
1063/1064/1066/1079/1080/1084/1085/1076/1089....

the 1064s are usually under 3k.

the 1084 or 1085 are the same as 1073 but have more eq points.

there are lots of reasons to love the neve stuff, but there are other mic pres, both vintage and new that are also great.
dont get taken in by some vintage audio dealer trying to sell you a sows ear, described as a silk purse:
quad 8.electrodyne,neotek,yamaha,adm,mci, ampex recorder electronics, spectrosonics, the list of mediocrity is endless....

other good VINTAGE preamps includes:
calrec,api,cadac,tube langevin, ua 610, there's more...

there are numerous remakes of neve and api mic pre's ( including my own) which are quite good and indistinguishable from the originals. call me if you want to talk. dan alexander 510 5271411
Nice meeting you at the show, Dan!

Old 9th October 2008
  #30
Lives for gear
 
tomdarude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
other good VINTAGE preamps includes:
...cadac....


shhhhh...don´t...you....spill the beans........heh
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
ejsongs / High End
15
phil debol / High End
58
Steamy Williams / So Much Gear, So Little Time
5
PhilC / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump