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Vintage 1073's or something else? Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 9th October 2008
  #31
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Tetness's Avatar
I would forget the vintage stuff at 6k a pop and look into the new Brent Averill (black) neve module -- I saw it at AES. It's like a 1084 on steroids. Many more EQ points in the mids and the top goes up to 24k. Build quality looks excellent. I have not heard it, but Avedis told me it's killer and I trust him.
Old 9th October 2008
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkemp View Post
Hi guys, wondering if you could offer some advice...

I'd really like to own a couple of vintage 1073's, because they're such inspiring pieces. On the other hand, are they a good investment? At around 6k per (vintageking quote) that's an awful lot of money to sink into two pre's... for the same money I could get a lot of gear that would also produce some inspired recordings (500 series goodies plus maybe a pair of barefoot MM27's?).

And as the financial sky falls all around us, I'm not sure if its 'money in the bank' or if that even matters.

What would you do?
it depends.. their price is not going to go down so it's a good investment anyway, any new preamp you are going to invest in will go down in value so for the long run it's cheaper to go with the real Neves.

my racked Neve 1064 channels are the most important piece of gear i have in my studio, and i have many good preamps, i could live without any of them except the Neves.

with all that being said there are many Nevish sounding units, i recently had a Chandler 1073 in the studio and it sounds absolutely GREAT, if you want to get a real Neve sound without paying for a real Neve i would buy a Chandler, get original Marinair transformers from Dan Alexander and switch the stock trannies with these, then you'll get the Neve sound, the BA183 and BA283 are not very hard to clone and i think Chandler did a great job there but the trannies are the heart of the Neve sound, i also felt like the EQ on the Chandler is somehow more versatile then the original Neve 1064 EQ's i have which most of the time not being used to add frequencies when i record with it because they are very agressive sounding, but the EQ switch is alway on when I'm using the preamps because it feels like it's adding a final touch of harmonic content to the preamp sound, i do use the HPF a lot and this EQ can't be beaten to fatten up bass guitars.. but the Chandler EQ felt gentler in a good way, like a Neve sound with a slightly narrower Q's without the drastic phase shifting of the original Neve, almost as versatile as my API 5500 with a Nevish sound but i only played with it for two hours and compared it with the 1064 not the 1073.. after recording vocals with a U47, U67 and a Tele USA 251 we preferred the original Neves but it feels like it's just the Marinair color is missing, but there is another way to see it, the Neve sounds "older" then the Chandler, the Chandler is a more open sounding unit because the lack of the output transformer phase shift on the high frequencies, I'm not saying it in a good or a bad way, it's just a different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
you will get the identical sound from any of the following as the1073s:
1063/1064/1066/1079/1080/1084/1085/1076/1089....

the 1064s are usually under 3k.
wow, i had the 1064's and 1073's side by side many times and they always sounded 100$ identical except for different EQ points, and i actually prefer the 1064 because it uses steps which are making it totally recall able and the ultimate Neve channels for stereo recordings, there is actually a 1000$ more in parts then the 1073's because of the expensive Elma switches and the time it takes to put resistors on this monster , I'd call it the mastering version of the 1073.
Old 9th October 2008
  #33
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
fvck the hype and mystique of owning the original
if you want the 1073 sound and eq,Just get an Averill .
if you want something that sounds amazing and w two channels get an Aurora GTQ.[a little more detail in the hi's but the Neve vibe is completely there]
If you don't need any eq at all then get the Avedis module
Trust me,save your money man.
I have many vintage ones and the Aurora /averills.. and 6k for one module is a total joke.
Its just a mic amplifier..not a magic wand.
they all get you to the same place..the rest comes down to your own talent.


This should be a sticky at the top of the forum.
Old 9th October 2008
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
YetiHunter's Avatar
 

My opinion stems from examination, and not being an experienced engineer.

However, I would imagine that the big names who could feasibly pay $5,000 for a 1073, without considering it as a potential business risk, certainly never paid $5,000 for the 1073's they already own .

People were throwing these away.

You aren't buying these pre's with art, you are paying with currency; you can use aesthetic judgement to nail your options down to a minimum, but, ultimately you need to allow your business side of the brain to make the final decision.

So, thinking like a business, your decision looks sort of like this:

30 year old pizza oven = $5,000

or

Brand new, same exact oven, parts and workmanship = $3,000

Hope this helped.
Old 9th October 2008
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiHunter View Post
My opinion stems from examination, and not being an experienced engineer.

However, I would imagine that the big names who could feasibly pay $5,000 for a 1073, without considering it as a potential business risk, certainly never paid $5,000 for the 1073's they already own .

People were throwing these away.

You aren't buying these pre's with art, you are paying with currency; you can use aesthetic judgement to nail your options down to a minimum, but, ultimately you need to allow your business side of the brain to make the final decision.

So, thinking like a business, your decision looks sort of like this:

30 year old pizza oven = $5,000

or

Brand new, same exact oven, parts and workmanship = $3,000

Hope this helped.
the clones does not have the exact same parts, the transformers which are the heart of the classic Neves are not being made for many years now so the new units using different transformers.

in the long run when you will want to sale the Neves you will more likely sale it for more then what you have payed for it, and you will always loose money when selling the new ones and that's relevant to the business side as well as the appeal of real Neves on studio clients, almost every studio has this or that Neve clone or substitute but real Neves are real Neves in the eyes of the clients, I'm not saying i agree with it, but real Neves are better marketing tools for a studio then any clone like a U47 is a better marketing tool then any new Wunder mic, so i think that in the long rum you will make more money out of it if buying the originals
Old 9th October 2008
  #36
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
I say f**k what the client thinks...tell em to stick it.

If one cannot get a professional result with any of the high quality preamp module / racks listed in this very thread and cannot keep a client amazed or very happy with the resulting sound...then something else is wrong...

If the client needs wow factor or needs to see brand names and glowing logos...then we need to correct this BS somehow. It's the user and his / her talent they should look upto, not the f***ing gear or the pretty light show from all those LED's and VU's.

Sorry for the rant...but I hope some people agree.

Old 10th October 2008
  #37
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Hi

Just my 2c about resale value of high end products...

Here's a link to a post on my site about the resale value of a GTQ2...

- GTQ2 as an investment?

Old 10th October 2008
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
YetiHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
the clones does not have the exact same parts, the transformers which are the heart of the classic Neves are not being made for many years now so the new units using different transformers.

in the long run when you will want to sale the Neves you will more likely sale it for more then what you have payed for it, and you will always loose money when selling the new ones and that's relevant to the business side as well as the appeal of real Neves on studio clients, almost every studio has this or that Neve clone or substitute but real Neves are real Neves in the eyes of the clients, I'm not saying i agree with it, but real Neves are better marketing tools for a studio then any clone like a U47 is a better marketing tool then any new Wunder mic, so i think that in the long rum you will make more money out of it if buying the originals
Good point, if one expects privy clients, that is certainly something to consider.
I suppose I ought to mention maintenance, backups (or rental) and downtime.
Same box of chocolates with old or new in that respect.

Quote:
Hi

Just my 2c about resale value of high end products...

Here's a link to a post on my site about the resale value of a GTQ2...

- GTQ2 as an investment?
Geoff has provided a rather grand amount of meaningful electronics/history knowledge to the Gearslutz collective. Call me a softie and a hypocrite, but I, personally, think about these sorts of things when I'm weighing the evens and odds.

Anyway, I'm out of my league here, so, signing out.
Old 10th October 2008
  #39
Lives for gear
 
goldenlotus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
I say f**k what the client thinks...tell em to stick it.

If one cannot get a professional result with any of the high quality preamp module / racks listed in this very thread and cannot keep a client amazed or very happy with the resulting sound...then something else is wrong...

If the client needs wow factor or needs to see brand names and glowing logos...then we need to correct this BS somehow. It's the user and his / her talent they should look upto, not the f***ing gear or the pretty light show from all those LED's and VU's.

Sorry for the rant...but I hope some people agree.


Don't forget you work for the client... NOT the other way around.
Old 10th October 2008
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
the clones does not have the exact same parts, the transformers which are the heart of the classic Neves are not being made for many years now so the new units using different transformers.

in the long run when you will want to sale the Neves you will more likely sale it for more then what you have payed for it, and you will always loose money when selling the new ones and that's relevant to the business side as well as the appeal of real Neves on studio clients, almost every studio has this or that Neve clone or substitute but real Neves are real Neves in the eyes of the clients, I'm not saying i agree with it, but real Neves are better marketing tools for a studio then any clone like a U47 is a better marketing tool then any new Wunder mic, so i think that in the long rum you will make more money out of it if buying the originals
And for the above i totally agree. If you can afford the originals buy the originals. I know i do & would.

Why bring doubt into the picture? Just squash any possible doubts that can possibly come up and get to work. No one can ever walk into your studio and complain that they don't want to work on a clone and only an original(and believe it or not i've seen this happen).

Now if money is an issue than you have to weigh all other options involved.
Old 10th October 2008
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkemp View Post
And as the financial sky falls all around us, I'm not sure if its 'money in the bank' or if that even matters. What would you do?
Lets say the sky fell and landed. I think every market is going to be "on sale" because people are going to get back to basics. Given that scenario, I believe any and all pro audio equipment will take a very large hit. If you are one of the people with money, I don't think finding vintage gear for "cheap" will be hard to do. In fact, I personally think it will be rather easy.
Old 10th October 2008
  #42
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 

I would agree with King of Swing. Try the AMS Neve DPA. You get the 1073 with no EQ. Slightly (and I mean very minimal) different (not bad or good) in sound but you get a modern/traditional fantastic unit. Add the API 5500 for the woody sound and its all good!!! I auditioned alot of pres from VK and also from BAE (Brent Averill) and sound wise, Top 3 were Neve 1084, BAE 1073 and ISA430. I went for the DPA because I wanted to have EQs that I could use standalone and still get the Neve sound. I would recommend it. I tried Shadow Hills etc etc and they were all good but you learn the Neve sound only when you hear it! and they get hooked!
Old 10th October 2008
  #43
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlotus View Post
Don't forget you work for the client... NOT the other way around.
Point taken...

But also don't forget that the client(s) comes to me (or you), not the other way round. I do not go and shall never go searching for clients. If they like my work, they come to me. I give them what I got, nothing more or less. thumbsup
Old 8th April 2009
  #44
Here for the gear
 
JC@P.A.D.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post

the 1064s are usually under 3k.
And super easy to modify into 1073 eq points (if desired)
Old 8th April 2009
  #45
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Vintage 1073's or something else?
Something else.
'
Old 9th April 2009
  #46
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
fvck the hype and mystique of owning the original
if you want the 1073 sound and eq,Just get an Averill .
if you want something that sounds amazing and w two channels get an Aurora GTQ.[a little more detail in the hi's but the Neve vibe is completely there]
If you don't need any eq at all then get the Avedis module
Trust me,save your money man.
I have many vintage ones and the Aurora /averills.. and 6k for one module is a total joke.
Its just a mic amplifier..not a magic wand.
they all get you to the same place..the rest comes down to your own talent.

PS: the Barefoots are worth the money


..
thumbsup
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