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API 2500 hardware vs API 2500 plugin
Old 30th December 2013
  #61
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietz View Post
"Old" mode is feed-backward, actually. And if memory serves me right, the side-chain shaping filters are only effective in "New" mode.

The old mode is feed-forward? Really? (You sure? I'm gonna check the Waves manual....) Well whichever, on the Plug the "Old" mode works great with slower release times. As far as I know the side chain filters work on every setting, I've always used them, but you have to enable them.
Old 30th December 2013
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
So basically what you guys are trying to say and not saying it is that it doesn't sound the same.

If the bottomn, mids or highs don't sound the same what's left?
yep...if that do not sound the same and the attack and release behavior are not similar.... we have a very different emulation.... can be good but extra,ely different..
Old 30th December 2013
  #63
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
yep...if that do not sound the same and the attack and release behavior are not similar.... we have a very different emulation.... can be good but extra,ely different..
I found it to be closer to right on slower release settings. Honestly with faster attack modes I thought it started to lose the vibe of the original.
Old 30th December 2013
  #64
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TinderArts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I

I've got a really old one, like the 2nd year they were made iirc. People have asked if the new ones are different somehow, I'm starting to wonder that myself.


Gregory Scott - ubk
The first 2500s made by Paul Wolff were indeed different. The later production model had removed a VCA per channel and had some other tweaks. I find that the 2500 lost something with that change.
Old 30th December 2013
  #65
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
The old mode is feed-forward? Really? (You sure? I'm gonna check the Waves manual....) Well whichever, on the Plug the "Old" mode works great with slower release times. As far as I know the side chain filters work on every setting, I've always used them, but you have to enable them.
Sorry, I was strictly talking about the original hardware. In that case, "Old" mode is feed-backward, and the side-chain filters aren't supposed to do anything by design.

... don't believe me, but you'd better trust Paul Wolff, the designer of the API 2500 ... ;-D ...

-> https://www.gearslutz.com/board/245260-post29.html


*****

Oh, and BTW: I think the Waves plug-in is a nice comp, but it's not very close to the original. Actually I always thought the Liquid Mix' version had more appeal.

Kind regards,

/Dietz
Old 2nd September 2015
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visiblesound View Post
Hi all. Does anyone have experience using both the API 2500 hardware unit as well as the API 2500 waves plugin? I'm interested in the hardware unit and I'm just curious if the plugin comes close at all. I do a lot of mobile work, and it would suit me better to use the plugin if it's really close to the hardware in terms of audio quality. My experience with other units is that most of the time, the hardware is significantly better. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Pete
I think that you could be sure that comparable in quality devices never will have so much different price as you may know api cost ~3000$ Plugin 10 times less...~300$. If they will have same quality api couldnt sell any device and company will bankrupted))))
Old 4th September 2015
  #67
The UAD API Vision Channel Strip sounds pretty good and I believe sounds closer to the hardware.
Old 4th September 2015
  #68
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nyandres's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VadGreck View Post
I think that you could be sure that comparable in quality devices never will have so much different price as you may know api cost ~3000$ Plugin 10 times less...~300$. If they will have same quality api couldnt sell any device and company will bankrupted))))
Actually this is not true. The hardware means parts have to be bought, and labor invested for each unit, including further labor from warranty. Software can be massively cheaper, because you write the code once, then port and test on different platforms. Beyond that there is no cost for each license sold (other than knowing software can be cracked).

I have a ton of hardware. There is a reason I use very little of it during mixing. The software is just as good in a few but existing cases, and even though rarely sometimes better. Now as a front end before hitting the converter the first time, its a different story
Old 5th September 2015
  #69
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Drumsound's Avatar
I onle messed around with the hardware at a mastering session once, but even then I could tell its an interesting compressor. I bought the API bundle quite a while ago and I do use the 2500 a lot. Often I like ir for drum parallel. Two nights ago I smashed the living daylights out of the drums and the thing just sounded brilliant. I don't even care if its not even close to the hardware, the plug in is just plain useful. It finds its way to lead vocal a lot as well.
Old 7th October 2015
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres View Post
Actually this is not true. The hardware means parts have to be bought, and labor invested for each unit, including further labor from warranty. Software can be massively cheaper, because you write the code once, then port and test on different platforms. Beyond that there is no cost for each license sold (other than knowing software can be cracked).

I have a ton of hardware. There is a reason I use very little of it during mixing. The software is just as good in a few but existing cases, and even though rarely sometimes better. Now as a front end before hitting the converter the first time, its a different story
In that way you could calculate sallary of IT structure in company, that develop such product, I can't imagine how much cost to develop one nice plugin it's very interesting to compare investments in hardware and software. I understand that ideally plugin creation consist of coding every part of hardware device to give desirable characteristics and also software (specially not emulations) gives more possibilies to create something new in sound and make it fast and maybe it's future in music industry, and hardware cannot deliver such possibilites.
Old 15th October 2015
  #71
Gear Head
 

I have compared almost every major plugin that emulates a specific piece of hardware with the actual unit as part of my job, and this includes the API 2500.

I found them to be fairly similar, but I definitely favoured the hardware, even unanimously in blind tests. It just plain and simple sounds better. The plugin is still good, and the benefits the plugin brings over the hardware are many: you can use as many of them as you want without having to buy more, the settings are recallable instantly, and of course it's a lot cheaper. In terms of value for money, the plugin is better because it is good and very useable. But, if you can afford it, always get the hardware 2500 - it's much better across the board.

I can't say the same for every hardware unit that has a plugin emulation though!
Old 16th October 2015
  #72
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I've A/B'd all the API hardware with it's software emulation. Hardware won every time.

The only thing software ever wins on is automation and recall. Even when you look at cost and value, hardware wins in the long term.
Old 26th April 2017
  #73
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RobDrmz's Avatar
 

Plus vs. hardware comparison

Check out this A/B test of API 2500 hardware & plug in. https://youtu.be/1Mt2G0fV1z0
Old 28th April 2017
  #74
I found the UAD 2500 to have a little more color and character than the Waves, while the Waves is a little punchier. API 2500 Bus Compressor I am sure it is still a little different than the hardware but it still is pretty good.
Old 30th April 2017
  #75
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
This.
I love the plugin for what it does in the box, but to compare the HW to the SW is night and day. I love my 2500 HW, you'll have to shoot me dead if you want it out of my rack.

If you haven't used the HW, try it. I hate trying to describe how things sound.

But, the Waves is still incredibly useful, it's definitely one of my more used ITB compressors.
If you don't mind me asking, what do you love so much about the 2500? Would you recommend it to a first time comp buyer?
Old 30th April 2017
  #76
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nyandres's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreNotOkay View Post
If you don't mind me asking, what do you love so much about the 2500? Would you recommend it to a first time comp buyer?
I wouldnt. Its a great tool, but a complex compressor in that its one that is super flexible in such a way it can easily ruin a mix. for a first I'd recommend something more specific in terms of what its good at.
Old 30th April 2017
  #77
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Kronos147's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by visiblesound View Post
Does anyone have experience using both the API 2500 hardware unit as well as the API 2500 waves plugin?
About 4 hours away from this. Picking up a used one from a friend who has too many compressors.

Old 30th April 2017
  #78
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreNotOkay View Post
If you don't mind me asking, what do you love so much about the 2500? Would you recommend it to a first time comp buyer?
As to what's great about it: you'd be better off consulting the many threads about it on this site.
I see no reason not to start exploring compressors with a 2500, but be aware that there will be a steep learning curve. Maybe spend some time with one and someone who knows it well before shelling out this kind of money.
Old 30th April 2017
  #79
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos147 View Post
About 4 hours away from this. Picking up a used one from a friend who has too many compressors.

I don't understand the phrase "too many compressors." Could you please explain?
Old 30th April 2017
  #80
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nyandres's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I don't understand the phrase "too many compressors." Could you please explain?
It means they have filled all the rooms in his house. So he needs to buy another house first. An additional one.
Old 1st May 2017
  #81
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Kronos147's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I don't understand the phrase "too many compressors." Could you please explain?
2 x Chandler RS124, 10 x API 525, Chandler TG1, Neve 33609 Metal Knob, Neve 2254 pair, Waves L2 hardware, LA2A, 1176, Manley ELOP. The Vertigo VSC-2 Quad Discrete Compressor on order to replace the 2500. Oh, he also has the SSL G compressor in his AWS 900.

I only have 10 channels of compression now. I'm not anywhere near the "too many" point.
Old 1st May 2017
  #82
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Kronos147's Avatar
Also, so far, I find the hardware is "tighter" than the plug in. The bass was better defined. The high end more clear.
Old 2nd May 2017
  #83
Deleted User
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Anyone own the hardware and the UAD plugin? How close are they?

I use the UAD plugin for 2-3 dB of gentle reduction (lowest ratio, slowest attack) on my mixbus (rock and roll.) I'm thinking about renting the hardware, especially because I go OTB anyway for analog summing.

Do you think the hardware would give a noticeable improvement? (On a techno mix where you're hard-pumping the 2500 I'm sure it would...I'm a little less sure in my case.)

Do you think the hardware is close enough to the plugin that I could usefully and quickly try the switcheroo? Make some adjustments to stems but the mix would basically stay together? Or might it be different enough that the mix would kind of fall apart? Thanks.
Old 2nd May 2017
  #84
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lasso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Anyone own the hardware and the UAD plugin? How close are they?

I use the UAD plugin for 2-3 dB of gentle reduction (lowest ratio, slowest attack) on my mixbus (rock and roll.) I'm thinking about renting the hardware, especially because I go OTB anyway for analog summing.

Do you think the hardware would give a noticeable improvement? (On a techno mix where you're hard-pumping the 2500 I'm sure it would...I'm a little less sure in my case.)

Do you think the hardware is close enough to the plugin that I could usefully and quickly try the switcheroo? Make some adjustments to stems but the mix would basically stay together? Or might it be different enough that the mix would kind of fall apart? Thanks.
Had the hardware, sold it and got the uad version. I don't think the plugin version is nearly as punchy as the real deal I'm afraid. It definitely shares a lot of the character but I'd take the hardware any day if I could afford and justify it. I went 100 % itb but that a piece I really miss
Old 2nd May 2017
  #85
Man, I always see people saying plugin 2500s don't sound like the hardware at all. Why can't plugin developers model this specific hardware? Waves cla2a, for instance, doesn't sound exactly like hardware but the character is there. Or SSL buss compressor plugins are still good at imitating the hardware.
Old 2nd May 2017
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
Had the hardware, sold it and got the uad version. I don't think the plugin version is nearly as punchy as the real deal I'm afraid. It definitely shares a lot of the character but I'd take the hardware any day if I could afford and justify it. I went 100 % itb but that a piece I really miss
Good to know, especially since there's one on my drum bus too. Guess I'll be renting for sure. Do you think they're similar enough that if I spend time matching, I can get a pretty similar result with the hardware, just higher quality? Or would the mix change a lot?
Old 4th May 2017
  #87
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres View Post
It means they have filled all the rooms in his house. So he needs to buy another house first. An additional one.
Sounds like they aren't doing their job very well, I'd steer clear......

Hey when he has too many houses, let me know, I need one....
Old 4th May 2017
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
Hey when he has too many houses, let me know, I need one....
You want the fifth house.


...based on Cole Porter's What is This Thing Called Love. (5th house in astrology is the house of love)
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