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HEDD 192....past its sell by date ????
Old 18th April 2005
  #1
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HEDD 192....past its sell by date ????

Have $3,000 burning a hole in my pocket. Was just about to order a crane song HEDD 192 (to help solve my ITB mixing issues) But after some research I realised the design is over 4 years old, and Crane Song no longer includes it in its product advertising.
Now 4 years for a peice of Digital gear is an eternity and the fact that Crane Song no longer promote it has got me stalling....can anyone reasure me or am I right not to buy.....

Advise please
Old 18th April 2005
  #2
The new ones are now shipping with 192k parts, though the software isn't upgraded yet (will be soon) - hard to get more new than that...

I say buy it.
Old 18th April 2005
  #3
Slow down!

You're thinking too much. Use your ears.

I know two (make that three) people who have bought HEDDs in the past three months based on its sonic properties alone.

Unless you've heard it, don't overintellectualize the decision. It still sounds as good as it ever has and nothing comes close to doing what it does with the HEDD process. What more was it that you wanted your converter to do?
Old 18th April 2005
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood
"a gallon of Baby Oil and some asscrack jeans for an "image" is NOT what I ordered."
Although, if you're taking orders....

Unless you're talking about plumbers.
Old 19th April 2005
  #5
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atticus's Avatar
The HEDD is one of the best values in conversion on the market right now, new or used. The only thing that beats it in the value department is Crane Song's own Spider. I say go for it!!!
Old 19th April 2005
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atticus
The HEDD is one of the best values in conversion on the market right now, new or used. The only thing that beats it in the value department is Crane Song's own Spider. I say go for it!!!
Oh Man...!!!! just read the Crane Song Spider manual....NICE....I can only imagine what a kit thru this would be like....playing with the tape saturation on snares/ohs

7 big ones though.....I'm away pimping for more work

Thanks 4 the heads up
Old 19th April 2005
  #7
box
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The new ones are now shipping with 192k parts, though the software isn't upgraded yet (will be soon) - hard to get more new than that...


so whats the process of upgrading my hedd? i bought a HEDD 192 about a year and a half ago, will i be able to send it in for the 192 upgrade or will i have to buy a new unit. will the new DA converters be the same as the ones in the avocet?
Old 19th April 2005
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by box
The new ones are now shipping with 192k parts, though the software isn't upgraded yet (will be soon) - hard to get more new than that...


so whats the process of upgrading my hedd? i bought a HEDD 192 about a year and a half ago, will i be able to send it in for the 192 upgrade or will i have to buy a new unit. will the new DA converters be the same as the ones in the avocet?
From what I understand, soon enough current HEDD192 users will be able to send their units in for the 192K upgrade - you shouldn't have to purchase a whole new unit. That being said, I doubt they will start upgrading any of the older units (like mine) until the software has been fully revised...
Old 19th April 2005
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by atticus
The HEDD is one of the best values in conversion on the market right now, new or used. The only thing that beats it in the value department is Crane Song's own Spider. I say go for it!!!
Coming from someone who used to know Benchmark stuff pretty intimately I think that is pretty high praise there Atticus!!!

thumbsup

Well kudzu, I think you have your answers above but... One of the only places were I worry about older technology is with converters so I feel your hesitation but really the damn thing just sounds good good good and I can't say much more.

The goal is to get good equipment that will stand out of the way and let you make recordings like you hear in your mind and I can't think of another piece of kit that fits this definition better than the HEDD.

You should be a very happy camper with it and if you are not it will have resale value I think.

Good luck.
Old 19th April 2005
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
You should be a very happy camper with it and if you are not it will have resale value I think.

Good luck.
Actually, finding one right now would be a bigger problem than resale value. Good luck.
Old 19th April 2005
  #11
Are the old HEDD 192's still using the same DAC's?

If so i would consider the Lavry Blue.

The DAC are the HEDD 192's weakest link.
Old 19th April 2005
  #12
box
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Are the old HEDD 192's still using the same DAC's?

If so i would consider the Lavry Blue.

The DAC are the HEDD 192's weakest link.


agreed! but if the new 192's use tha same dac as the avocet you would be in great shape IMO. but i dont know if this is the case
Old 19th April 2005
  #13
box
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sorry thrill..... as i read again over your post i think you were saying the same thing if the new ones use the same dac's as the old go for the lavry's.

but i cant imagine the new 192's not having a better dac especially after all the feedback and "complaints" of the current one
Old 19th April 2005
  #14
Rep
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I recently called Dave Hill. and asked him about the avocet D/A :
his exact response was that :
"it was the same as the one in the HEDD"

that kind of made me wary of the avocet ,
Or the HEDD D/A is better then what is being said around here .
Who really knows what the real story under it all is.....
Old 19th April 2005
  #15
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston
You're thinking too much. Use your ears.

I know two (make that three) people who have bought HEDDs in the past three months based on its sonic properties alone.

Unless you've heard it, don't overintellectualize the decision. It still sounds as good as it ever has and nothing comes close to doing what it does with the HEDD process. What more was it that you wanted your converter to do?

HEDD 192 -- I don't leave home with out it!

Furthermore, when applicable, I still use my HEDD as the front end for direct to 16bit CDR backup recordings... And that units even older.
Old 19th April 2005
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

I've had a few email exchanges over the past few months with Scott at Cranesong. According to him, the new D/A section is the same as the Avocet, and will be available as an upgrade for around $200.
Old 19th April 2005
  #17
Rep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood
From what I understand, soon enough current HEDD192 users will be able to send their units in for the 192K upgrade - you shouldn't have to purchase a whole new unit. That being said, I doubt they will start upgrading any of the older units (like mine) until the software has been fully revised...
Hey Brad;
How will we be able to detect the "old HEDD 192" from the " NEW 192" .
will there be any visual differences or marks , other then internal & software .?
Old 19th April 2005
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rep
I recently called Dave Hill. and asked him about the avocet D/A :
his exact response was that :
"it was the same as the one in the HEDD"

that kind of made me wary of the avocet ,
Or the HEDD D/A is better then what is being said around here .
Who really knows what the real story under it all is.....
Your kidding right??

Well I don't know where you get the idea that the HEDD 192's converters get bad press around here. As far as I know it (and I did a ton of research into this before I bought my unit) the only person that I have heard who does not like the HEDD converters is Thrill.

Honestly the HEDD (and in fact all Cransong gear) is high end stuff. Yeah there are more expensive converters out there and maybe better ones but at this level of product it is not that the HEDD's converters are "bad" it is that they don't work as well for you. The HEDD 192 converters are not in any way like the converters in your father's Digi 001 as some in this thread have eluded to….



Quote:
but i cant imagine the new 192's not having a better dac especially after all the feedback and "complaints" of the current one
Complaints??? No disrespect but I think that any complaints that you are speaking of are over exaggerated to a large degree. I have a HEDD 192 (an old and useless piece of gear judging by some on this thread heh) and I love the damn thing. I have nothing but respect for it's sound and the company that makes it.
Old 19th April 2005
  #19
box
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box's Avatar
 

Complaints??? No disrespect but I think that any complaints that you are speaking of are over exaggerated to a large degree. I have a HEDD 192 (an old and useless piece of gear judging by some on this thread ) and I love the damn thing. I have nothing but respect for it's sound and the company that makes it.


as you may have noticed i put "complaints" in quotations. being a relative term, in no way does that comment put it into the 001 category or any converter put out by digi thus far for that matter.

i love my HEDD!! it is on of my most used piece of gear. i just dont feel the DA's measure up to it's AD's which is why i use lavry DA instead.
Old 19th April 2005
  #20
Rep
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Just got a response stating that there will be now way , other then the serial number,
to know if you are getting the HEDD with the new converters.

Its that is important to me, as the new D/A is suppose to be great.
Old 19th April 2005
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by box
Complaints??? No disrespect but I think that any complaints that you are speaking of are over exaggerated to a large degree. I have a HEDD 192 (an old and useless piece of gear judging by some on this thread ) and I love the damn thing. I have nothing but respect for it's sound and the company that makes it.


as you may have noticed i put "complaints" in quotations. being a relative term, in no way does that comment put it into the 001 category or any converter put out by digi thus far for that matter.

i love my HEDD!! it is on of my most used piece of gear. i just dont feel the DA's measure up to it's AD's which is why i use lavry DA instead.
It's all good, I see your point now but it was a little like you were knocking the thing in your earlier post (not that knocking it is a bad thing mind you, just not what I have experienced YMMV).

thumbsup
Old 19th April 2005
  #22
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atticus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Coming from someone who used to know Benchmark stuff pretty intimately I think that is pretty high praise there Atticus!!!

thumbsup

Well kudzu, I think you have your answers above but... One of the only places were I worry about older technology is with converters so I feel your hesitation but really the damn thing just sounds good good good and I can't say much more.

The goal is to get good equipment that will stand out of the way and let you make recordings like you hear in your mind and I can't think of another piece of kit that fits this definition better than the HEDD.

You should be a very happy camper with it and if you are not it will have resale value I think.

Good luck.
The first converter that we shot the DAC1 out against with was the HEDD, back in 2002 at Mercenary Audio. The dac's sounded different but it's not like the HEDD's dac sucks at all. It's 2000% better then most dacs out there.

One of the things I learned working at Benchmark and being able to try stuff out was that you should buy gear on value, not cost. Sure the HEDD costs more then other two channel a/d / d/a's but it also does way more, and in my opinion gives the used more value for their money. Even when I worked at Benchmark I wanted one. I still want one.
Old 19th April 2005
  #23
Rep
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Rep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by box
[B]
i love my HEDD!! it is on of my most used piece of gear. i just dont feel the DA's measure up to it's AD's which is why i use lavry DA instead.
I hear ya, I got one and Yea ..... the AD is great,
but not the AD. Its sounds good , but is not with out its coloration
it is much cleaner and fuller with a dedicated DAC.
I got the Mini DAC after AB ing them, It was a noticeable difference.
Old 20th April 2005
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Your kidding right??

Well I don't know where you get the idea that the HEDD 192's converters get bad press around here. As far as I know it (and I did a ton of research into this before I bought my unit) the only person that I have heard who does not like the HEDD converters is Thrill.
I'm also not a fan of the HEDD DA ... in comparison to other high end DAs ... but if you're not used to high end DA it's stellar and totally sufficient.

The AD is unique and musical in it's sound, a bit forward, and very good for tracking.

The HEDD 192's D-to-D processing is a staple in my chain, as was the first HEDD.



Some of us feel that in tracking the AD with heavy digital processing can be too much once the tracks get further treatment. If it's a light touch at tracking you won't have issues and the AD is very musical and highly recommended.
Old 20th April 2005
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I'm also not a fan of the HEDD DA ... in comparison to other high end DAs ... but if you're not used to high end DA it's stellar and totally sufficient.
Though I use the db Tech DAC most of the time, my console is wired so I can hear either the HEDD DAC or the db Tech DAC with the flip of a switch. It's not bad, not as clean as the db Tech, but is actually a great color for some projects.

I'm also aware of several well known mastering engineers that use the HEDD DAC to feed their analog chain all the time.

Just saying, it's not as bad as some may say, ime...
Old 20th April 2005
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I'm also not a fan of the HEDD DA ... in comparison to other high end DAs ... but if you're not used to high end DA it's stellar and totally sufficient.

The AD is unique and musical in it's sound, a bit forward, and very good for tracking.

The HEDD 192's D-to-D processing is a staple in my chain, as was the first HEDD.



Some of us feel that in tracking the AD with heavy digital processing can be too much once the tracks get further treatment. If it's a light touch at tracking you won't have issues and the AD is very musical and highly recommended.
Well I almost take the line "but if you're not used to high end DA it's stellar and totally sufficient" as a cut against us hacks who don't know any better. Borderline elitist isn't it?..

heh

Allot like saying "I bet you buy a hat like this you get a free bowl of soup, huh?...Oh it looks good on YOU, though."

Really the DA is not that bad, again different flavors of good in my book. Yes there might be some better out there but come on, what are you comparing it to? Prism DA-2 that Fletcher sells for $9000?? Sure I bet the Prisim sounds better but on the tracking and mixing side I think the DA-2 is overkill and the HEDD is more than just "sufficient"...
Old 20th April 2005
  #27
And of course, the new HEDD192s that are shipping with the new DACs (same ones that are in the Avocet) are getting rather rave reviews (though I have not heard it in a critical environment)...
Old 20th April 2005
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Well I almost take the line "but if you're not used to high end DA it's stellar and totally sufficient" as a cut against us hacks who don't know any better. Borderline elitist isn't it?..

heh

Allot like saying "I bet you buy a hat like this you get a free bowl of soup, huh?...Oh it looks good on YOU, though."

Really the DA is not that bad, again different flavors of good in my book. Yes there might be some better out there but come on, what are you comparing it to? Prism DA-2 that Fletcher sells for $9000?? Sure I bet the Prisim sounds better but on the tracking and mixing side I think the DA-2 is overkill and the HEDD is more than just "sufficient"...
Love Caddyshack!

I'm saying that a DAC1 or Lavry Blue/Gold or Weiss or Prism will give you a DAC at mastering that's super clean, and I need that level.

As Brad says, the HEDD DA could be fine for feeding the analog chain, but for the playback end we both have other things.



Now for tracking/mixing, if you need a great AD for tracking and if you also it for DA, it's sufficient!


on the scale of :
Poor
Insufficient
--------------
Sufficient
Excellent
Old 20th April 2005
  #29
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Ted Nightshade's Avatar
 

I'm another guy who doesn't care for the HEDD A/D or D/A. That's why I sold the thing. I never once was able to track direct to digital and like it. And it screwed up my transfers from tape. It's a big step up from the cheap stuff, but it leaves a LOT to be desired. See what it does to transients. What transients? They were there before the A/D...

But the process is dynamite. It is really, really cool. And very flexible. You lose a considerable amount of resolution and detail, but you can gain all kinds of texture and dimensionality. It's not like tape, it's not like tubes, it's like it's own cool whole world of subtle distortion. I'd like to try it some time on a digital signal from a much better A/D than the HEDD A/D.
Old 20th April 2005
  #30
**sigh**

We agree to disagree I guess.

(I know you know this but...) as far as the transients go, did you check them with all processes "off". Obviously the tops of the transients are getting clipped to make "it's own cool whole world of subtle distortion".

When I zoom on a track that has been passed through the AD with the process on the tops of the waves are rounded off. When I pass the same audio but turn off all the processing then the waves are not topped off. That is how it works it's magic after all

Also what would you suggest to replace the HEDD A/D?? There are plenty of people who don't like Larvy stuff as well, plenty who don't like the MyTec converters plenty that don't like Apogee...

The point I have been making is that it is a matter of taste at this level. I think you are missing that point (maybe I am not making it so well I guess). The HEDD was not for you just as the Larvy is not for others but to say it "leaves a LOT to be desired" is going pretty far. It might not suit you but I and many others happen to really like it.

Threads like this frustrate me because I think people just like to complain (I know, I do it also). Because it didn't work for someone it then "leaves a LOT to be desired" thereby discounting all the 1000's of users (more or less?) who are quite happy with it.

If you said that it was not your cup of tea or it was not what you were looking for then fine so be it but to flat out imply it is a piece of crap (as is how I read your take) or to imply that it is fine for less skilled engineers which is how lucey's post came accost before just does not sit well with me.

Kind of like Alphajerk saying Bonham was a "******" just to get a reaction.

Or...

Maybe I am just having a bad day.....

Again we agree to disagree
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