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recording/mixing a carter beauford size kit
Old 13th July 2002
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

recording/mixing a carter beauford size kit

for those of you not familiar with the drummer in the subject heading (carter beauford) - drummer for the Dave Matthews Band...he's one of those guys with many fills and plays all over his hats and woodblocks and whatnot - anyways it's a bunch of drums to mic.

I have a band coming up that has a drummer that plays alot like Carter Beauford, and has a kit almost as big - 4 toms, tibale, blocks, toys, etc...

I have enough mics to cover the kit - planning on micing the toms with sennheiser 604s just for backup coverage, snare and timbale are getting 57s on top only - hat area with toys is getting a 414 or U87 - room mic infront of kit is as well either a 414 or 87, kick will have a D12e inside - and whatever else I can muster outside (or only the 87 out front a few feet). Overheads covering kit will both be Schoeps cmc6/mk4v's

anyways - here is the theroy I am struggling with, basically trying to mix this kit before I mic it up. Looking for a sound that isnt too stereo and too wide, yet does capture enough elements of the kit without it sounding 80s.

First dillema is to worry about panning the main overheads drummer's perspective or listener's perspective without either becoming overly noticeable.

Second dillema is worrying about the snare and hat/blocks are being too off center, since that's where they are in the kit.

basically - how do you handle a huge kit, keep it sounding like a kit - yet keep in centered enough to be the backbone of a tight mix?

Sounds like a broad question - yet I am some of you know what I mean. I have a few gameplans laid out to try, just hoping someone might have something I havent though of yet...
Old 14th July 2002
  #2
Start with the OH & Ambience mics, panned to artists preference (if you are not producer) tuck in the bass drum, then add the close mic's gently just for some definition. do what the hell you need to to the close mic's - the real deal is in the overheads & amb mic's.


Thats how Simon Phillips showed me anyhow..... (session drummer)

Thats kinda basic... but... it works

Old 17th July 2002
  #3
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recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Start with the OH & Ambience mics,- the real deal is in the overheads & amb mic's.


Thats how Simon Phillips showed me anyhow..... (session drummer)

Thats kinda basic... but... it works

.....and another reason for another shamless mention of my "two stick" overhead technique.
Old 17th July 2002
  #4
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I prefer closer to three sticks.:eek:

I'm an audience perspective guy. Feel free to throw your own Bunny (YMMV).

Get the overheads happening and place a condenser (U87 or my fave a Royer ribbon) equidistant from the snare where your head would be standing in front of the kit looking down on it. Move the mic until it comes into focus with the already kicking overheads. Sometimes this mic beomes a "centering" device that will hopefully get your toys in a good space.

If the drummers right side is still weak put another mic on that side (414) facing the snare but hopefully picking up the floor tom area. I usually listen first then place the mic where I hear the good stuff that I want. Changing Altitude a bit can yield monstrous results.

For kick I'd put the D12e in close...

If you need more mics than that you really want another drummer.
Old 17th July 2002
  #5
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As a drummer...i must say how good the drum tracks sound is 90 % related to your drummer and his gear...this actually holds true for any recording for that matter.
If your drummer has a great pocket, studio experience and good sounding gear than it's pretty hard for you to screw up the drum tracks.
Now with that said, the main sound of a drumset is from the overhead and the room mics...there are really no hard rules as to where to place these mics. Just have the drummer play and walk around your room and listen to find the best spot for your room mic. As for the overhead, it depends how much of a " overall kit sound " versus more cymbals sounds you want, this will dictate the height of your OH mics...again, no hard rules here, just experiment.
Like i said, if you have a good drummer, just the OH and room mics will give you a GREAT sounding kit and wether he has a 4 piece kit or a 12 piece kit, it should not matter that much since a good drummer always know how to balance his sound.
Like Jules said, add your close mics to taste and wether you should pan the drums to player/audience perspective..that is totally up to you...no hard rules here...good luck.
Old 17th July 2002
  #6
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by vudoo
...Now with that said, the main sound of a drumset is from the overhead and the room mics...
Except, of course, where the main sound of a drumset comes from the kick, snare, and tom mics... Sometimes I'll get 80% of my drum sound from the overheads, sometimes, I'll get 25% from the overheads. It depends on the song, the drummer, and how much coffee I've had before I start the mix.
Old 18th July 2002
  #7
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 

Re: recording/mixing a carter beauford size kit

Quote:
Originally posted by JayCrouch

(snip)
Overheads covering kit will both be Schoeps cmc6/mk4v's
(snip)
Looking for a sound that isnt too stereo and too wide, yet does capture enough elements of the kit without it sounding 80s.
The MK4v's are really smooth off axis so with some experimentation you should be able to take a very accurate and balanced sonic snapshot of the kit with these. Don't be afraid of overheads from behind the drummer, or even the possibility of a single OH mic. IME the best drumsounds rely heavily on getting the OH sound(s) happenin' first and foremost, with great care taken to match phase of any other mics with respect to the OH.

All of the above assumes a good sounding properly tuned kit played by a competent drummer.

- jon
Old 19th July 2002
  #8
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loudist's Avatar
 

If I may be so bold as to post the link to the 3 mic drum technique of Mercenary's site:

3 Mic Technique <--- click here

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