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Pictures of various control rooms
Old 21st March 2003
  #91
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Heterodox's Avatar
 


Nexus back. Can i get SOME brownie points for using Standard Monster 100s? Eh...I didn't think so =[


Well at least I can make you drool over SOMETHING. Highest-end DW kit available with an assortment of fun stuff. 2 other DW snares available but not shown. Actually more expensive than the ENTIRE DAW (mics, pres, EVERYTHING).


Oh like you DIDN'T want to see another angle?
Old 21st March 2003
  #92
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We padded the back wall heavily (LENRD in top corner too) in an attempt to deaden the early reflections so it sounded like the room was bigger. Mostly it was the buildup of cymbals in the mics that gave us the idea. The ceiling also had canvas on it for the entire area of the drum corner (we heard somewhere this helped...). Would have used less padding and some T'fusors if I had to do it over again.


6 ft long kick drum tunnel made from cardboard and foam. Double micing Terry Date style. I'm a big fan of this and the sound it gets...or CAN get.


Other side of room. Note 6ft tall plywood monstrosity in corner - its a homeade vocal booth that can also be laid sideways to act as a guitar iso chamber. Note also that it cost less than $100 to build and we are not handymen...thus it wobbles, rattles, and generally sucks (worked good for vox though). Most of the other gear sucks...the Mesa Rect has been exchanged for Bogner Uberschall, and the ampeg B line 4x10s was a mistake Guitar Center made (I purchased pr410s). The pr410s still suck in my opinion though (prosumer prosumer prosumer)...trying to save up for an all Aguilar 680/728 + 4x10/1x15 combo - but then I'm not even really a bass player. =\ The other guitarist has no money so the Rivera Knucklehead sits sadly on an old Marshall 4x12 (which is now sold...so its sits on my Bogner from time to time).


The inside of the previously aforementioned vocal booth thingy. I placed the mic right in front of the LENRD when singing. Not much ambience but I enjoy using reverb to form the vocal rooms (or maybe I've just never been in a good room?).
Old 21st March 2003
  #93
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More stuff to drool at. The Arsenal. Parker Fly (Classic, Deluxe, I dunno?...its his not mine so bleh), Warwick Thumb Bass (amazing bass...Ken Smith All Maple has perks over it however), and finally my Music Man Axis. The Parker and Music Man are hands down the best two electric guitars I have ever felt.


This happened soon after we realized prosumer gear does not a radio-ready recording make.


This just kind of happened. Come to think of it, this sorta crap always just kind of happens...hmmm. That is the beloved vocal booth btw. Hopefully when I get a MAX WALL vocal booth I won't be as unhappy with it.


There was alot of anger...
Old 21st March 2003
  #94
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Self-given wedgie from hell. Eh...well at least I'm standing in the studio.


Our plea for an Auralex endorsement.

-------------------------------------------------

Additional detail for those interested... we used:

AKG C418s for the toms
SM81 for the hats (I would still use this in any studio today)
Studio Projects C1s for overheads (unsure about these...they can't be any good for $200...but I loved the ride ping and crash sounds from them...as well as vocals, acoustic guitars, etc. Maybe I just need to hear a truly great mic through a good pre though)
SM57 for snare
SM57 for internal kick (about 2 inches from beater head)
AKG D112 at end of kick tunnel

This was all recorded into Sonar...and since we had 16 available tracks we were able to record full band as well.

All in all, whilst this entire studio setup was MOSTLY pure elephant ****, through our ingenuity and countless hours of trial we were actually able to get some pretty damn good recordings - well, considering. Our adventures in audio are far from Ocean Way...but I'm exceedingly proud of what we achieved with what we had. So here's a taste. Be gentle, please.
-----------------------------------------


Song 1 - Click me!
The final project we recorded. Unmastered. Unfinished. Not even played very well.
This was the culmination of our DRUM recording skills...we'd spent months (while building the studio up) working on the overall sound of the drums by themselves. I'd say they sound great - lots of punch on kick/snare. I encourage you to listen at around the 1:32 mark to hear them at their best. Odly, though, the drum mix seems slightly in front AND slightly behind. Make sense? Perhaps a lack of transparency (pres + room + AD/DA?). Also digitally sterile a bit much eh? Bass was added quickly (though it still sounds mildly decent due to it being a friggin Warwick DI! - with 8:1 comp). Vocals sound mildly decent in my opinion as well. We spent very little time on the guitars (just so we could hear the song with all instruments). Recording guitars is probably the area we have the least experience/time playing around with. Also - the bogner cab is not properly matched to the frequencies of the Rivera head...this did NOT help.

Song 1 OLD VERSION - Click me!
For comparison's sake. This was recorded using the much earlier mentioned PA Mixer > Tascam > Soundblaster > CWPA9 method and an assortment of not-so-great gear to play. YEESH! I would say we got alot better at recording over 8 months. I again encourage you to listen around the 1:32 mark...this time to hear the absolute POO that is the drum mix.

Song 2 - Click me!
A side project with a friend. We spent about 2 months writing, recording, mixing, and mastering. The goal was a radio-ready single. Close, but no cigar. Oh well...can't win all the time. This was recorded using the same setup as Song 1 - only without ANY COMPRESSORS. I spent about 4 days manually setting track automation on the vocals till I felt they were right, lol. Mastered pathetically using Steinberg Mastering Edition plug-ins. I do love the actual song though...turn it up if you can't hear the AM radio background singing in the first 10 seconds. Was going to remix that someday...check out my Wooten skills at 2:20!

Song 3 - Click me!
First test clip recorded with compressors...boy were we excited. The toms sound great in the end. A bit loud on the clangy-ass cymbal aspect but its bearable. The guitars actually sound a bit better than usual. Mesa = easy to record.

Last one - Click me!
This is to show off what ingenuity can do! The song was recorded at the end of our PA Mixer stage. We went directly into the computer (no tascam) with a stereo signal of 10 drum tracks. During the creation of this the drummer and I stayed up for 30+ hours, slept about 4, and repeated...the entire time hitting the record button, smacking a snare about 10 times, stopping, listening, tweaking PA Mixer knobs, repeat. At the end of a week we had what I can only describe as the Best ****ty Drum Mix Ever. To me the quality of the audio is phenomal when considering the gear used (remember, $50-100 mics). But it still sounds like poo so don't get overly excited. =]
----------------------------------------------------

And that's that. I'm hoping I set a record for the longest first post - and apologizing in advance for that. Currently I'm looking at a whole slew of gear with which to upgrade to (all world class stuff) and I plan on starting another thread for that. Of course my room sucks and I'm looking into the option of buying/renting a house in the next year. I have zero money...but where there's a will there's a way. Thanks for your time...and if anyone wants to email me thoughts/suggestions about recording, mixing, effects, techniques, good food, etc I'd love to hear from you - [email protected] (mostly critique and advice about song 1...perhaps how much the gear + room + inexperience had to do with the unprofessional qualities?). I'm hear to learn.
Old 21st March 2003
  #95
Lives for gear
 

Very cool, dude! I'm in a similar position to you except instead of spending my $ on hot guitar stuff, I have some absolutely top shelf pro audio stuff. Oh yeah, and my mammoth Pearl custom shop kit. Just wish I knew how to use both the recording gear and the kit better ;-) In a couple years you'll do the same thing I did, sell all the fancy guitar amps and buy a Crane Song spider ;-)

I like the clips- for that sort of style, very cool. Not my thing at all, but definitely a lot better than a lot of the other nu-metal stuff out there.
Old 21st March 2003
  #96
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btw- I gotta say I actually like the original version of that song better. =)
Old 21st March 2003
  #97
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Wow....after all that....theres about three nice mic pres in that drum set and cymbals......We get by with something like this...since it was bluegrass we took out the other toms and all unnecessary cymbals.......
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Pictures of various control rooms-dums1.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #98
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Sonic Dogg, looks cool!

What would be great is if we could create a thread parallel to this one that showed some examples of our common mic'ing of the instruments that we keep in our studios, just so we could hear how our studios sounded (clips we would record for this purpose, or at least clips of our own material so no clients would be involved). I'm not proposing anything for a scientific sonic evaluation of our rooms, gear, etc. but merely as another form of gear porn (like pictures of all our stuff!).
Old 21st March 2003
  #99
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Then theres the guitar area.....the red one sounds especially good.....ok the white one is real nice too........
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Pictures of various control rooms-guitars.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #100
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

Our room

Here are some pics from our room


regards,

wolfgang


toolhouse recordings, germany
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Pictures of various control rooms-pic1.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #101
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

our room 2

and another one
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Pictures of various control rooms-pic2.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #102
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

our room 3

and another one
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Pictures of various control rooms-pic3.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #103
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

our room 4

... and the last one
Attached Thumbnails
Pictures of various control rooms-pic4.jpg  
Old 21st March 2003
  #104
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

wolfgang.. you should get some outboard...

nice space!
Old 22nd March 2003
  #105
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Heterodox
[B
Well at least I can make you drool over SOMETHING. Highest-end DW kit available with an assortment of fun stuff. [/B]
Hmm - the biggest problems I see are (A) there's no place to put a music stand, and (B) with so many cymbals, there's very little room to actually mic the kit... Do you actually hit them all, or is that a collection that has accumulated?
Old 22nd March 2003
  #106
Moderator emeritus
 

wolfgang is apparently a part of a small group (including me and michael wagener) with Vac Rac preamps - Cool!
Old 22nd March 2003
  #107
Gear Maniac
 
Heterodox's Avatar
 

Well...Paul is the drummer, not myself.

A) He needs no music stand...What purpose would that serve anyhow?

B) Tom mics are clip ons, snare is sm57 on a small stand expertly placed, hat mic is positioned above on the side. There's plenty o room really. Soon we are replacing the snare mic with a DW/May internal sm57, and all of the toms with internal D2s...that'll make the job even easier.

And yes, Paul makes use of nearly every piece of equipment in every song (minus the 27" Saluda china, of which he has 2...kind of just for show, and fun sounds for recording). Those are all hand picked cymbals/bells/etc - each chosen for different reasons. The overall tonal colors of the kit are amazing...but I'm still working on getting a recording to prove such! =p

He's also got a D'n'B kit thats pretty snazzy too - much smaller and very breakbeat oriented...I have no pics though =[
Old 22nd March 2003
  #108
Gear Addict
 
barforama's Avatar
Yeah sure Wolfgang. Get some more Tube-Tech. You should be able to get a full rack of it in short time.
Go for it.
Cool place :-)

but tell me what is that piece of rackfiller below that CL1B??? Couldn't be audio equipment, could it????
Old 22nd March 2003
  #109
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

our room

to Dave Martin: yeah VacRac rules, do you know if I could drive more modules on one PSU, or only four. We have some eq's, but no rack.

to Barforma: it's the LCA2B, I know many people hate it, but I sometimes really like it on vocal subs, and other stereo tracks.

We are just about building a new studio complex, and there we have the space to install the other toys which haven't installed yet. We hope to move to the new location by the end of summer (how optimistic....)

regards,

wolfgang
Old 22nd March 2003
  #110
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AudioGaff's Avatar
A few things I have lying about in the house...
Attached Thumbnails
Pictures of various control rooms-img2.jpg  
Old 22nd March 2003
  #111
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AudioGaff's Avatar
and more...
Attached Thumbnails
Pictures of various control rooms-img5.jpg  
Old 22nd March 2003
  #112
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AudioGaff's Avatar
Oh, a few effects...
Attached Thumbnails
Pictures of various control rooms-img4.jpg  
Old 22nd March 2003
  #113
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Heterodox
Well...Paul is the drummer, not myself.

A) He needs no music stand...What purpose would that serve anyhow?
A music stand is an excellent device to have around in a recording or rehearsal studio;not only is it an excellent place to put your cell phone while playing, but it can also be used to to hold porno pictures to keep the drummer amused while the guitar players are working out their parts. In addition, reflections from the stand can be used to add a 'metal' flavor to the tracks. You can place it ina horizontal position to hold your beverage of choice as well as take out food, and in a vertical position to hold unused items of clothing. And if all else fails, you could actually use it to hold charts of the song that you're playing. Umm, someone else wanna jump in here?

Quote:

Tom mics are clip ons, snare is sm57 on a small stand expertly placed, hat mic is positioned above on the side. There's plenty o room really. Soon we are replacing the snare mic with a DW/May internal sm57, and all of the toms with internal D2s...that'll make the job even easier.
Are you sure that you want the sound of internal microphones? It's quite a different sound than, for instance, 421's (my usual mic for that application) on the toms.

Quote:
[i]

And yes, Paul makes use of nearly every piece of equipment in every song

With all due respect, y'all are playing songs that require that many cymbals? When I was hiring young drummers on a regular basis (on the road, 20 years ago), they would often bring kits similar to Paul's - lots of toms, lots of cymbals. I usually made them take them all down except one rack tom, one floor tom, two crashes and a ride; drummers will often make the mistake of playing the drums instead of playing the songs. Limiting the number of drums that they can hit usually makes them play the songs better...

I could be wrong, of course.
Old 22nd March 2003
  #114
Moderator emeritus
 

Re: our room

Quote:
Originally posted by toolstudio
to Dave Martin: yeah VacRac rules, do you know if I could drive more modules on one PSU, or only four. We have some eq's, but no rack.
Steve Firlotte could help with that answer. I know that he's making a half rack 3 space PS which drives a couple of modules, as well as a half rack wide 3 space unit to hold the modules. I do like the EQ; I have 6 channels.
Old 22nd March 2003
  #115
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Its funny that Dave should bring up the point about over-drumming due to overpopulation of drum thingys...even my drummer agrees with this in principle...."ya wanna keep that floor tom for this song?"....."naw, I'll just hit it if its sittin there..."..and really thats the deal, if its there, the drummer will hit it sometime during the song, appropriate or not...I've worked with a couple of drummers over the years whose musical training was really quite complete and they still had to limit their set during recordings for this simple fact...
Old 22nd March 2003
  #116
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
Are you sure that you want the sound of internal microphones? It's quite a different sound than, for instance, 421's (my usual mic for that application) on the toms.
How would you contrast the difference in sound between the standard 421 and the mentioned internals?
Old 22nd March 2003
  #117
Gear Maniac
 
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lol Dave, bravo on the stand...although Paul has enough porno in his brain to keep him happy for years i'm sure

But seriously - Paul wouldn't ever really need a chart of the song...our writing process is pretty intense and he is only ever playing our stuff. We have a large whiteboard if any ideas need to be catalogged on the spot, but we usually take songs part by part until we can link it all up.

Danny Carry uses internals in the studio and live and I'm a huge fan of his tom sound. It gets a little atonal for me (just a large thump), but he has a habbit of tuning ALL of his toms to E and D. Not surprising considering thats all Tool plays in. =p Our music is demanding of more power (not 80's "I'm in a cave beating toms power" mind you) and less of the jazzy tom feel...but I definitely like to balance that out a bit when moving towards the higher toms.
We're all about experiementing, so just because Paul grabs 4 internals doesn't mean we won't be using a tin can and string a week later. heh Check out the link to Song 3 above...the last 10 seconds of the song is the feel we're going for.

I understand what you mean about drummers and big kits. I've seen plenty of drummers who have million dollar kits and do absolutely NOTHING. Or even worse, drummers who can't even hold a 4/4 clean, but have a house downpayment for cymbals. But I assure you, Paul uses everything. As far as "playing the kit and not the music"...I've met many drummers far more talented than Paul in plenty of different aspects - but never have I met one with the creativity and musicality he possesses. And yes...our music (well our most recent music at least) requires it. If you listen there is a ton of odd meters, polyrhythyms, and nuiances galore. All that aside, Paul's not looking to be a session player or anything, so he doesn't need to worry about what professional engineers are going to have to deal with - and for me it really is a lot of fun trying to get his damned behemoth kit to sound good. Really though, without all of his toms alot of things would be impossible...sure, you CAN play with a downsized kit, and make STELLAR use of it (Chris Pennie of The Dillinger Escape Plan recently downsized his kit a bit...and he's my favorite drummer - if not the world's most talented)...but...

Well, it reminds me of a story. One time 3 years ago a bass player of ours was tuning in the middle of practice. After he finished EVERYONE in the band noticed his G was at least a whole note off. We told him "we think your G is out" and he replied "Ahhh, I don't need it." I almost slapped him. dfegad
I have a tendency to leave any broken strings off my guitar/bass for at least a week if possible...It definitely helps you approach things in a different way. But at some point, my fingers and mind want that damned string back. If your brain and heart can handle it, why dumb down?

Just consider it tools, like the piles of high-end gear that engineers COULD get away with, but very much so enjoy having the flavor of. You wouldn't tell Alex Grey he can't paint with blue would you? tutt

http://www.alexgrey.com/a-gallery.html <--- Off topic, but I encourage you to look around. GENIUS.

P.S. - The man known as roushc is the goofball holding the guitar and servicing Paul with the 2x4 phallus in the pics. Always the inquisitive one that Curtis...

P.P.S. - I second Curtis' question. I'd love to hear an explanation of the difference in mics.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #118
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
Its funny that Dave should bring up the point about over-drumming due to overpopulation of drum thingys...even my drummer agrees with this in principle...."ya wanna keep that floor tom for this song?"....."naw, I'll just hit it if its sittin there..."..and really thats the deal, if its there, the drummer will hit it sometime during the song, appropriate or not...I've worked with a couple of drummers over the years whose musical training was really quite complete and they still had to limit their set during recordings for this simple fact...

Think about what would happen if pianists had that mindset.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #119
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by roushc
How would you contrast the difference in sound between the standard 421 and the mentioned internals?
All of the May systems I've been around used SM57' capsules, and the difference between 57's and 421's is part of the equation. The other part is that a mic on the outside of a drum picks up primarily the sound of the front head, supported by the resonance of the rest of the drum (including the rear head), When the mic is inside the drum, it's a completely different animal; while it IS picking up the front head, the mic picks up the rest of the vibrations going on in a completely different way.

It's been 6 or 7 years since I've mixed drums using an internal system, and that was doing live shows. back then, I used the May system when the client wanted it, but whenever I was able to do a direct comparison, I always preferred the clarity of mics mounted outside the toms. I never liked the sound of 421's jammed up inside toms in the days when bottom heads were unpopular, either. Of course, things may have changed.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #120
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by NYC Drew
Think about what would happen if pianists had that mindset.
They'd play more like Basie?
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