The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Trident 70 series any good ???
Old 8th July 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Trident 70 series any good ???

hi all,

I'm about to upgrade my project studio. I'm using a ProTools HD2, 192I/O. Being a drummer, i do a fair amount of drum tracking at my studio. I currently use the Precision8 mic pre and even though it sounds very good, i'm looking for some pre's with a bit more colors and possibly some sort of small console to sum the PT stuff as i heard many people raving about this way of mixing but never tried it myself.
Anyways, so far i have my heart set on the Dakings pre/eq. The Eqs sound very musical and the pre's are FAST and in your face !!
I'm also contemplating the possibility of getting a console and was looking at the Trident 70 series. Since there is no way for me to test drive the console, i almost have to buy it blind. Anyways, would anyone here care to comment about this particular console ?? the asking price was
$ 12 500.00....is this a good deal ???
Thanks a million.
Old 9th July 2002
  #2
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I wouldn't spend $12,500 on a console without having a tech check it over first. It might cost you a few hundered but it could save you a shit load of money later. Without knowing the number of channels, patchbays, cabling, and general condition no one will be able to tell you if that's a deal or way too much.
Old 9th July 2002
  #3
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
The Trident "70 series" is basically a 16 buss "80 Series"... which is a seriously good sounding desk. They have been around for a while, so as Jay suggested, hire a real tech [or send whomever will be your tech] to give the desk a full and complete inspection.

$12,500 seems a bit high to me for that desk, I've usually seen them going for more like $8 or 9k... but if it's in killer shape, the desk should last you quite a while... and will sound worlds better than damn near anything else in that price range.

Best of luck with it...
Old 9th July 2002
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

I just upgraded from an all PT W/ Procontrol to and 80b and PT. We now mix and track through the console, use PT as a hard disk/editor. The switch has been a learning experience. On the plus side overall sound is greatly improved. If the same pres are in the 70 as in the 80 series, I think you will be very pleased. They sound great! on drums. On the minus side MAINTAINANCE. So far i have bought around 200 tlo71 and ne5534 ICs A tech has been down once to fix all the major problems and is coming back to upgrade the power supply. Just as Jay said get someone to look at it BEFORE you buy it. And if possible check the board out in a working situation. And last but not least. This is a buyers market, do your homework there are some great deals out there.

Richard
Old 9th July 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 

Yeah, $7-8K should be normal. The board sounds very different from the 80 series. The pre's and EQ sound different, and the difference in headroom is drastic. There are mods for the master section, but they're expensive compared to the worth of the console.
my $.02 (from experience of moving from a 70 to an 80C)
Old 10th July 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Maybe you worked on a messed up 70? The channel strips are exactly the same as the 80 minus selectable high and low shelves and only being 16 buss instead of 24. One problem with the 70 was it came with a horrible PSU which is why it can have headroom problems. I had a new one built just for the audio part of the console, and I love the sound of it. The console pres beat out my vintech 1272 pres fairly often.
Old 10th July 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 

Talked to a tech that worked on tridents and he said that the strips are not really the same inside, and the master section was completely different. I was trying to see if it was possible to do some mods to get more in the range of the 80 series and he said not really without getting into completely rebuilding stuff...
He did suggest the PSU rebuild, bet your new one makes a big difference.
Old 10th July 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
70s are different from 80s. The mic pres are identical and the eqs are identical aside from a switch that selects slightly different cap values on the high and low shelves. The Series 70 runs +/- 18V on the audio rails, while the 80 runs +/- 20V. The maximum stated voltage for TLO71s is 18Vs, so Trident put a selected grade in the 80 that was tested for 20V operation. I can't remember the exact suffix but it should be on the chips that are original. If you replace them with off the shelf 71s there's a good chance you're gonna pop chips. The older 71s had wider tolerances and they could handle higher voltages. Current manufacture 71s are much closer to their stated specs, usually a good thing, but they may not like 20V across them. Perhaps this is what you're running into Sprouseod? Anyways, this isn't a problem with the 70.
The biggest differences between the 70 and 80 are in their line drivers. The 70 uses a TL071 to drive it's insert send and in it's fader buffer amp. A 71 can't really drive a 600 ohm load so if you strap a Vari-mu in there, it's gonna run out of gas driving it. The 80 added a pair of transistors after the TL071 to both the insert send and fader buffer line amps, so it can drive a bit of wire there.
They're mainly interfacing differences, so often you'll find 70s that have Jensens added to their outputs to balance them. Since the insert point is fixed post EQ, you may be better off driving your outboard from the recorder's balanced output into the desk's balanced line input anyway. To beef up the insert send and fader buffer line amps, you can swap an OPA132 for the TL071, which will push 600 ohms just fine. Leave the rest of the chips stock and you won't mess with the desk's tone, just stiffen up the outputs a bit.
You can compare the circuits here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Triden...nput%20Module/

and here:

http://geocities.com/tridentaudio/Series80.html

Oh, and like momma always told you, Trident supplies are for display purposes only, don't attempt to pass audio using them. HTH
Attached Thumbnails
Trident 70 series any good ???-s70_brochure_1.jpg  
Old 9th June 2005
  #9
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

That price is high unless it has had a major overhaul and is in good shape. I have installed discrete op amps in console channels before and depending on the space available its not easy. API 2520's or 990's require a complete PCB installed. Before I did that kind of a mod I would consider outboard pres, people don't realize that a GOOD outboard mic pre has several advantages: First, the signal path is far shorter and cleaner( better, fewer & newer switches and pots), you can place the pres closer to the source if needed and the output is also going thru far less components.
Both the 80B and 70 are your basic IC chip/transfomer input mic pre, good but not great. I would not run those chips at + & - 20 volts, the very small amount of extra headroom is not worth the shorted life of the chips, by the way the difference between +-18 volts to +- 20 Volts only gives a extra 1 db of headroom...do the math..
For a very nice 990 mic pre JMK Audio builds one that's about is clean and direct as you can get, NO pots or switches in the signal path...
WWW.jmkaudio.com
Old 9th June 2005
  #10
You better buy some spare modules. These use the Preh pots from Switzerland, a company that went out of biz back in the 90's. If you break one, you will be either SOL or you will be trying to fudge a Preh pot from Soundcraft's service dept.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 9th June 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
alexstringer's Avatar
 

Have you hear about the new Trident dream serie?
Those boards are amazing ...The 16 channel sale for 11K and you'd have a year warranty on it...
I can email you the brochures if you give me your email adress...
Old 11th June 2005
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstringer
Have you hear about the new Trident dream serie?
Those boards are amazing ...The 16 channel sale for 11K and you'd have a year warranty on it...
I can email you the brochures if you give me your email adress...
If these are built like the Oram stuff, all surface mount, I would think twice about it. It will be a service bitch down the road, 1 year warrenty ought to tell you something, like it will need work after 1 year? 16 channels for 11k? Bet they sell poorly at today's gear values.

How about a late model used british console for much, much less? Like around 10 cents on the dollar from the list price.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 11th June 2005
  #13
Lives for gear
 

I just picked up a 30 channel Trimix, which is the same as the 70. So far I'm loving it and I haven't even started to recap it yet. The pres are great on drums, eq's are very usable. I don't even reach for outboard stuff for convenience sake. You could make a great album with the board alone, no doubt. I paid roughly $8K.
Sean
Old 12th June 2005
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

You're going to spend $12,500.00 just to try and mix OTB?

That's crazy.

You cleary don't need a console because you don't have one now.

From one drummer to another:

Get a used Control24 for faders. (If you want faders)

Get an API 3124. A pair of Neve alikes (Brent Averill, Chandler, Great River, Aurora) and a TG-2.

And buy a Folcrom.

Now you have 8 great Pre's for tracking and a better more dependable, recallable, mix buss.

And you've probably saved some money. Get some better mics than.
Old 13th June 2005
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
I just picked up a 30 channel Trimix, which is the same as the 70. So far I'm loving it and I haven't even started to recap it yet. The pres are great on drums, eq's are very usable. I don't even reach for outboard stuff for convenience sake. You could make a great album with the board alone, no doubt. I paid roughly $8K.
Sean
Wow, I didn't think those were worth that much. As to caps, that trident uses tantalum 22 uf caps. These don't dry out like electrolytics, but sound sort of grainy. Use care as the pcb's are easily damaged by heat. Use bigger caps if you replace them.

In input modules, remove the gain shunt resistors R26 and R40. These are another "Oram" design flaw which ends up loading the opamp's output increasing distortion while rolling off the low end. Oops.

The mic pre's are another "mistake" as the secondary load is constantly changing with gain causing both ringing and undershoot depending on the gain position. This can be easily fixed by converting the first stage into a non-inverting topology and the reversing the transformer's primary leads to retain phase. This way the sonics are constant with gain variation. Using a Jensen JT-115K transformer makes it especially nice.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 13th June 2005
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Well,
Mine is two buckets fixed together in a custom frame, with custom wiring. 30 Input channels, an 8*8 output matrix, master module and aux module. I thought it was a good deal. Thanks for the tips Jim. I actually think the mic pre's sound great. Half of my modules have the original Zutt transformers which I love the sound of. If I want the Jensen thing, I'll use my Dakings.
Sean
Old 16th June 2005
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Trident Series 70

The Series 70 is basically and 16 buss series 80. It uses the exact same transformer coupled microphone preamp and EQ circuit. This EQ is still my favourite for Toms. $12500 seems a bit high for a used Series 70 unless its in really pristine condition and has 32 perfectly working channels. I just re-stored a Series 70 side car and not only did we have to clean every switch, pot and patchbay connection but replaced several switches and several pots throughout the side-car.

During the 80's I owned two Series 80 consoles and they were very serious recording consoles and probably the most flexible analogue console I have ever recorded with. There are some modifications around to improve the microphone preamps. However, we had a rack of 1073 Neve preamps and usually came back through the balanced line inputs which bypass the input transformer and preamp circuit. The IC's are all on sockets so they are easy to replace and the pots are wired linked and very easy to replace. Capacitors can be also replaced very easily as well as the switches. These easiest way to replace defective switches and capacitors with damaging the circuit board it to first cut them away and then desolder each wire or pin one by one.

A single properly working series 70 module sells for about $400 so a 16 channel series 70 would be worth $6500 max. Used consoles are only worth what the preamp modules can be parted out for. If I was to buy 16 series 70 modules to rack for a client I would expect to pay $350 a module no more.

Best regards, Dave Thomas (Advanced Audio)
Old 16th June 2005
  #18
Gear Head
 

In my opinion, Jim Williams is talking nonsense. That ringing in the mic pre is killer on live brass. I have a 70 and it's really exciting.
Jim may fix 'em, but I use 'em. (suspect a bit of technician jealousy here!)
Old 17th June 2005
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Well, I'm not sure I'd be able to detect 'ringing' either way, but I do know I love the sound of Trident pres. My friend who is a bit of a tech has said that if you put a Trident A Range on a scope, it looks absolutely horrible, but if you close your eyes and listen........that is another story altogether. And in audio, it's all about the sound, isn't it?
Sean
Old 17th June 2005
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Excuse my crashing ignorance, but where do the Trident 65 and 24 series fit into this scheme? Are they similar in deisgn to the 70/80b desks?
Old 17th June 2005
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike scott
In my opinion, Jim Williams is talking nonsense. That ringing in the mic pre is killer on live brass. I have a 70 and it's really exciting.
Jim may fix 'em, but I use 'em. (suspect a bit of technician jealousy here!)
You can try it for yourself and determine if you like it. Cut the trace from the input to the 12k resistor. Cut the trace from pin 3 to ground. Run a jumper from the input to pin 3 of the opamp. Run another jumper from the 12k resistor to ground. Load the secondary with a 100k resistor from pin 3 to ground. Reverse the black/red wires to the XLR. Dump those TL071's (you know, the one's that made the discrete consoles worth so much), and pop in a BB OPA134, OPA627, AD825, etc.

Now that didn't hurt too much, did it?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 17th June 2005
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman
Excuse my crashing ignorance, but where do the Trident 65 and 24 series fit into this scheme? Are they similar in deisgn to the 70/80b desks?

Not at all. No transformer, 4 transistors in front of a TL071 opamp. The transistors are not in the corrective feedback loop of the opamp so as gain goes up, so does the dirt. This was a common design until the Brit designers got wind of Paul Buff's work on the "trans-Amp" tm. Now you see them all copy each other.

Except for Oram and Toft. They tend to copy their previous work.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 24th March 2006
  #23
Gear Head
 

New Trident Desks

What do you guys think of the new desks that Trident are doing like the 8T and the Dream series, how do they compare to the originals in terms of sound quality. Would you prefer a Dream series to an old 70 series?
Old 25th March 2006
  #24
Lives for gear
Can't wait to hear from the Toft ATB users on that pilot program. Should be interesting.
Old 25th March 2006
  #25
Gear Addict
 
phelbin's Avatar
 

I talked to John Oram about them a few years ago. He really thinks that his new designs are better, but he was also trying to talk me into buying a new console from him instead of a vintage Trident. I ended up with a Series 80 and have absolutely no regrets about my decision!
Old 9th December 2008
  #26
This is an old post, but what's everyone's thought these days with the new Toft boards out.

A used Trident 70 with pathbay and cabling would cost about the same as a Toft ATB-24...which would be a better buy if you weren't looking to upgrade for a long time.
Old 9th December 2008
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
This is an old post, but what's everyone's thought these days with the new Toft boards out.

A used Trident 70 with pathbay and cabling would cost about the same as a Toft ATB-24...which would be a better buy if you weren't looking to upgrade for a long time.
Damn good question and worthy of a bump. Bumpa!

-andrews
Old 19th February 2010
  #28
Here for the gear
 

series 75 desk

Hi there..I have a lovely series 75 desk with a poorly power supply...would love to know about repair/ replacement of the PSU...I have heard that they are a bit underated for the desk!



Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
Maybe you worked on a messed up 70? The channel strips are exactly the same as the 80 minus selectable high and low shelves and only being 16 buss instead of 24. One problem with the 70 was it came with a horrible PSU which is why it can have headroom problems. I had a new one built just for the audio part of the console, and I love the sound of it. The console pres beat out my vintech 1272 pres fairly often.
Old 19th February 2010
  #29
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
...pop in a BB OPA134, OPA627, AD825, etc.

I second the BB's, much much better tone than the TL's.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 19th February 2010
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I second the BB's, much much better tone than the TL's.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Those OPA134's are a bit out of date now, better is the TI THS4601 or the new AD4627-1 and AD8510 if you want to use fet input opamps. Other choices are OPA1610, LME49710, AD8597, etc.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear