The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Which is the $85 pre and which is the $2200 pre? Condenser Microphones
Old 14th December 2008
  #271
Gear Head
 
redredstudio's Avatar
 

WOW CRAZY!

did you use the pres EQ when tracking with the exp pre?

def would like to hear just naked files for sure. if you are doing a board mix, i would assume that it's adding its own color to the tracked sound, plus the plug ins.

if you used identical plug in settings for each pre, and the plugins were set mixing the less exp pre, the end result would favor the less exp pre.

but even still..... proves a point. it's not all in what you got, but how you use it.
Old 14th December 2008
  #272
Gear Head
 

Has anyone come to the conclusion yet that it's just not that hard or expensive to build a decent pre?
Old 14th December 2008
  #273
Lives for gear
 
Chaellus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post


Take it easy young fella. Does your mom know you got into some chocolate?

dfegad
Old 14th December 2008
  #274
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post

You guys crack me up. I grew up next to a recording studio. I started doing my first fader moves during live recordings on tape , at age 14. I'm glad you and ..Mr. Caffrey... feel you're on top of the food chain, stroking each other's egos. That's fine. The only way anyone can form an opinion about how great ANYTHING is , is purely through comparison. You both obviously feel you've gained perspective on quality gear after having used increasingly "better/ more expensive" equipment through the years. Hats off to you. You may have some better gear than I do , but "I'll bet the farm" neither of you have better ears. You can't buy those. God gave me a great set , and that's what has kept my interest in music and recording for 25 years. Mr Caffrey has probably got plenty of talent as an engineer , as he obviously has a passion for music as well. That's why anyone comes to this site , for example. There's one thing to be good. There's another to be arrogant. If you take time to look , you'll find that the people in this world who have achieved the most and have succeeded to the greatest level in their field are in fact the most humble.
Some day we'll meet and you'll laugh at how wrong you are projecting arroggance where it doesn't exist.

In the mean time, maybe you mean condescension rather than arrogance.

You're stuck in a loop of making things personal. Is it thee posts now where you've called me arrogant?

"Which is the $85 pre?"

"Caffrey is arrogant"

"Caffrey is arrogant"

"Caffrey is arrogant"


No one here has claimed to be on the top of the food chain. It's pretty clear you haven't read my post with the intent of understanding my points.

Arrogance is when you have an exaggerated sens of your own importance or abilities - like thinking that I'm arrogant and no one else here has the ability to see it, that you're the special guy who has to point it out over and over. That's why I'm saying you're projecting. You've made your point, now maybe you'll allow the thread to get back to discussing preamp A vs B or subjects slightly tangential to that rather than acting out emotional issues unrelated to the subject.

I'm sure your ears are great. Too bad you're posting anonymously so that we can't check out any samples. And, you've only got 35 posts - which I'm sure you're interpret as me commenting on status, but is really to point out that this could be a new profile that you use when you want to call people names like "slutslobs". You're the only person who's resorted to that in what's normally a pretty heated topic. And, lest you think I'm paranoid, there are lots of cases where people have multiple profiles here and use the anonymous ones pretty inappropriately.
Old 14th December 2008
  #275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
No ****.

Why is this always repeated here every friggin day? Is there REALLY anyone on this forum that would think otherwise?

I almost wish there was a forum rule against this

sorry....I'm easily annoyed right now

People just like to make me vomit a tablespoon or so into my mouth!

Now I'm really going to cut back on the spicy food!
Old 14th December 2008
  #276
Quote:
Originally Posted by iomegaman View Post
The amount of ego that crawled into this thread is remarkable.

I guess its to be expected with engineers and all, such an opinionated lot.

Back to the OP...I like "A" best, but that could be a the "first in" effect.

What I will tell you is this, it is quite possible to get a really decent sounding pre these days for very little coin and this thread above all proves that.

The very fact that many liked "A" over "B" should give us all "pause" considering the proper engineering mantra that in order for it to be VERY good it must be "VERY" expensive.

Theres a few of things I've noticed lately,

1: good pre's and A/D converters are no longer the sole possession of the elite.

2: Digital EQ's are really pretty much the same the same and a good way to fine tune what an outboard EQ will get you in the ballpark for.

3. The noise floor of ones ego is directly proportional to the compression ratio of ones gratitude... The less you are thankful for the harder it is to hear what you mean over all the other crap coming out of your post...

I find as a general rule I no longer read posters who are arrogant, but immediately read the post of the humble looking for truth...
It's not ego, it's taking things off the topic and turning them personal.
Old 14th December 2008
  #277
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post

Nice attempt to slam me by comparing "ego" comments. If you take a moment to read my comments a little closer you'll find I wrote that I'm confident that neither you or Mike have ...better ears than I. That would mean perhaps they are equal. I didn't take credit for having good ears. That, I credit to God. He also made me colorblind too. Yes I'll agree... you're not humble. Maybe you shouldn't be. Greatness follows humility. Like I said once before , I come here to share experience and learn from other who "actually" know. You are the types I would like to avoid since you come here to "educate" only, since you think you already know everything. Since you say I've got 15 years experience more than you and I'm not that old, I'm talking to an arrogant kid who spent more money than he needed to buy high end gear , thinking THAT would let him sound like a professional. Money availability isn't holding me back from spending excessive amounts on over priced/ over hyped gear. Intelligence is. My ear is going to save me thousands because there is a load of great audio equipment available without spending a fortune. Good day.

What difference do your ears make? All that matters is vocal quality and the performance.

I'd rather record a great singer singing a great song with crappy ears thatn a crappy singer singing a crappy song with great ears.


Why is it that there are only those two choices? Is it truly impossible to grecord a great singer, great songs with great gear and great ears?

And why isn't that everyone's first choice? Why do people always prefer to record great singers with crappy gear? Why do people write, "I rather stick a $85 mic pre on a great performer with a great song, than a $2000 mic pre on an ok performer with an ok song." when they could write, "I rather stick a $2000 mic pre on a great performer with a great song."?
Old 14th December 2008
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by iomegaman View Post
The amount of ego that crawled into this thread is remarkable.

I guess its to be expected with engineers and all, such an opinionated lot.

Back to the OP...I like "A" best, but that could be a the "first in" effect.

What I will tell you is this, it is quite possible to get a really decent sounding pre these days for very little coin and this thread above all proves that.

The very fact that many liked "A" over "B" should give us all "pause" considering the proper engineering mantra that in order for it to be VERY good it must be "VERY" expensive.

Theres a few of things I've noticed lately,

1: good pre's and A/D converters are no longer the sole possession of the elite.

2: Digital EQ's are really pretty much the same the same and a good way to fine tune what an outboard EQ will get you in the ballpark for.

3. The noise floor of ones ego is directly proportional to the compression ratio of ones gratitude... The less you are thankful for the harder it is to hear what you mean over all the other crap coming out of your post...

I find as a general rule I no longer read posters who are arrogant, but immediately read the post of the humble looking for truth...
Could it be that one example of A being better than B is not enough for the type of generalization that people are trying to make from it?

Not that this is necessarily an example of A being better than B.
Old 14th December 2008
  #279
Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
i dont buy into the car analogy i'm afraid.
we are talking two major different industrial technologies.
cars n pro audio. big difference.
the fact is even inexpensive pro audio gear has come a long way due to
advances in technology.
if anyone ever gets hold of a raytheon ic data book.
theres an interesting mic pre circuit in it.
showing a jensen transformer into a op37 op amp.
the hardest part is the bipolar power supply.
Mario Andretti is arrogant.
Old 14th December 2008
  #280
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahiaman View Post
As much as technology has advanced I find it funny that people still think that a good product can't be bought for cheap these days. While quality control might leave something to be desired, the sound quality of lower end gear has improved considerably.

Consider the Apogee Duet, for $500 it can seriously kick the ass of many more price converters and pres.
I've never head of that piece, but can you give some examples of specific more expensive converters that it beats hands down?

It's even ok if you want to cite comments that other people have made in the event that you haven't had the opportunity to do the A/B yourself, but please specify that.


You know, really, we're all kind of looking at this the wrong way. 24 channels of Apogee duets would be $6k, which is what I paid for my 24 channels of Radar Nyquist converters. I've never A/B'd the Apogee, but I'd be really surprised if anyone here seriously claimed that the Duet was better. My question is, are we comparing the same priced converters?

Yeah, I see how the new retail price is a reference, but now that being "smart" has been brought in to the equation, what if there's a "$1k difference" in sound quality between the $85 pre and the $2000 pre, but you bought the $2,000 pre used for $500? Does that change which is "better" or which is a "better value"?

Tying price to the judgment is pretty much the norm - "Yeah there was a difference, but it wasn't big enough to justify the extra cost." But there was a difference and if you want that difference, that's how much it costs to get. What people choose is more often dependent on budget than sound and usually involves balancing the two.


However, this thread is based on the difference in sound, more than the difference in cost. Or maybe I should say, there's some vague way in which we can create semi-objective criteria to evaluate the difference in sound. I don't think we have anyone but purely subjective way to evaluate that difference in the value of the different sounds.

Let's say hypothetically, and rhetorically, that the $2k pre is better than the $85 pre. Maybe even a lot better. Do we have any way, to evaluate whether that difference is equal to or greater than $1915? That evaluation is just a function of your bank account and maybe peer pressure.
Old 14th December 2008
  #281
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post


Take it easy young fella. Does your mom know you got into some chocolate?
Of course. It's the chocolate that made him and elite ego stroker!
Old 14th December 2008
  #282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato View Post
Has anyone come to the conclusion yet that it's just not that hard or expensive to build a decent pre?
Does anyone want a decent pre when they could have a great one instead?


And hard for who?
Old 14th December 2008
  #283
Gear Maniac
 

You know Mike , if you didn't feel the need to condescend to everyone you talk to , you wouldn't have a dozen different people on these threads thinking you're a "know it all." The ranting that you guys go on , when someone doesn't buy into your bulls**t , gave me impression of my 4 year old when he found a hidden stash of chocolate. Maybe you should try showing a little respect for fellow enthusiasts who found their way to this site. Your pissing match didn't start on the last post. Read them from the beginning and it might make more sense to you.... I know you need to get the last word , so I'll check back later and see if you're any kinder.
Old 14th December 2008
  #284
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
You know Mike , if you didn't feel the need to condescend to everyone you talk to , you wouldn't have a dozen different people on these threads thinking you're a "know it all." The ranting that you guys go on , when someone doesn't buy into your bulls**t , gave me impression of my 4 year old when he found a hidden stash of chocolate. Maybe you should try showing a little respect for fellow enthusiasts who found their way to this site. Your pissing match didn't start on the last post. Read them from the beginning and it might make more sense to you.... I know you need to get the last word , so I'll check back later and see if you're any kinder.
Looks like the only one he's being a little harsh on is you. Seems that Chaellus hasn't quite grasped the 'quote' button workings which has put his name in the quotes when it was really your quotes he's citing.

Just an observation.

I've read a lot of Mike's posts around here and he is not condescending IMO. He's actually quite helpful and informative.
Old 14th December 2008
  #285
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
Looks like the only one he's being a little harsh on is you. Seems that Chaellus hasn't quite grasped the 'quote' button workings which has put his name in the quotes when it was really your quotes he's citing.

Just an observation.

I've read a lot of Mike's posts around here and he is not condescending IMO. He's actually quite helpful and informative.
Well, maybe you're right. He started off bashing me and my opinions. When I wasted my time responding to him ; trying to make piece , he took the time to continue his insults. Then his pal Chaellus ; took it upon himself to fight this "battle" as well. I think it's really too bad that after only a few posts I've got 2 people whom I'll try to avoid on other threads in the future. One of which ; Mike , who may have been a nice source of information as I try to improve my gear.

If you're bored, take a minute and read the way these guys talked to me from the start. You'll understand why I began to bark back a bit. Well, gotta run. Taking my 2 boys down to the nursing home to sing carols with my acoustic. Puts a smile on the old folks faces to see the kids.
Old 14th December 2008
  #286
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
If you're bored, take a minute and read the way these guys talked to me from the start. You'll understand why I began to bark back a bit. Well, gotta run. Taking my 2 boys down to the nursing home to sing carols with my acoustic. Puts a smile on the old folks faces to see the kids.
I've already read from the beginning, though my memory fades fast. Not taking sides but I've been involved in bouts on this forum before and as always, it's partially my fault in at least escalating a smaller 'attack' into a bigger one.

When one attacks me in some way, I try to take a chill pill/high road....ala Barrack Obama style. Doesn't always work, but I'm still learning to grow upheh, I'll have it down by the time I'm on my death bed

Anyway, I'm sure both of you have fine attributes, yet it may not always come across on an internet forum
Old 15th December 2008
  #287
Lives for gear
 
synthoid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
i dont buy into the car analogy i'm afraid.
we are talking two major different industrial technologies.
cars n pro audio. big difference.
the fact is even inexpensive pro audio gear has come a long way due to
advances in technology.
if anyone ever gets hold of a raytheon ic data book.
theres an interesting mic pre circuit in it.
showing a jensen transformer into a op37 op amp.
the hardest part is the bipolar power supply.
You focused on the "car" part of the analogy, but I am more interested in the "driver" part of the analogy. The idea that a good recording studio and good recording equipment are made irrelevant by a great performer is just plain stupid! And yes, that is what I think folks mean when they say that a great singer will sound great on a Radio Shack cassette player using orange juice cans for microphones etc.

I stand by the car analogy. Today's family car would blow away a race car from the early part of the 20th century -- better handling, better engine output, better acceleration, better braking, better safety, not to mention all the stuff that differentiates a family car from a race car, like GPS and surround sound stereo system. There's still a huge gap between a race car and a family car, but I suppose (waxing cynical now) if your team loses lots of races it is comforting to blame the driver instead of wondering whether the problem is that you trying to race in a family car, and that in fact to be competitive in a modern race, you need both an excellent car and an excellent driver, a great mechanical and business team, and even then, a healthy measure of luck.

-synthoid
Old 15th December 2008
  #288
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthoid View Post
I stand by the car analogy. Today's family car would blow away a race car from the early part of the 20th century -- better handling, better engine output, better acceleration, better braking, better safety, not to mention all the stuff that differentiates a family car from a race car, like GPS and surround sound stereo system. There's still a huge gap between a race car and a family car, but I suppose (waxing cynical now) if your team loses lots of races it is comforting to blame the driver instead of wondering whether the problem is that you trying to race in a family car, and that in fact to be competitive in a modern race, you need both an excellent car and an excellent driver, a great mechanical and business team, and even then, a healthy measure of luck.

-synthoid
The point is there is only ONE goal for a race car, winning the race. It's not at all subjective, it's purely performance. A race car drivers skills make the most of that race car, it's pros and cons, but again, his goal is also singular...to win the race.

Audio is subjective, there is no singular goal.
Old 15th December 2008
  #289
Gear Nut
are the performances deifferent?
Old 15th December 2008
  #290
Lives for gear
 
Chaellus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
You know Mike , if you didn't feel the need to condescend to everyone you talk to , you wouldn't have a dozen different people on these threads thinking you're a "know it all." The ranting that you guys go on , when someone doesn't buy into your bulls**t , gave me impression of my 4 year old when he found a hidden stash of chocolate. Maybe you should try showing a little respect for fellow enthusiasts who found their way to this site. Your pissing match didn't start on the last post. Read them from the beginning and it might make more sense to you.... I know you need to get the last word , so I'll check back later and see if you're any kinder.
i dont see bull**** here ,the only person thinking that was you and you had to keep attacking us and get out of hand, i have respect for everyone here and i havent had a conflict with anyone till you and im just about done with this thread, you have your opinion and its clear to me that it wont change so ill just leave it here....i dont care about having the last word...that has nothing to do with what ive been saying and i have followed the posts since the begining and the only one who was sturring up trouble was you....you may beg to differ and im really at the point of that i dont care anymore .Many credible people have given there 2 cents in this post but you just cant take the information so you attack them with words calling them arrogant and such when ive been here long enough to know that those same people have provided great information and are the opposite of what you say. Hopefully this rant will end here because its just chaos and im sure we both could be doing better things. oh and fleaman i know im kind of clumsy with the qoute button...ive been here more than a year and i didnt discover it till a few months ago...
Old 15th December 2008
  #291
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
I've already read from the beginning, though my memory fades fast. Not taking sides but I've been involved in bouts on this forum before and as always, it's partially my fault in at least escalating a smaller 'attack' into a bigger one.

When one attacks me in some way, I try to take a chill pill/high road....ala Barrack Obama style. Doesn't always work, but I'm still learning to grow upheh, I'll have it down by the time I'm on my death bed

Anyway, I'm sure both of you have fine attributes, yet it may not always come across on an internet forum
Thanks for the wise words Fleaman. I don't know who this Chaellus guy is. Everytime I say something to Mike , he chimes in. I've been looking feverishly at threads on different comps and pres on the market and I've read a number of posts now from Mike Caffrey. This guys sounds pretty smart and experienced. Probably has a right to condescend to me. I don't like to do that to anyone , no matter how "clueless" they may be. That's just me. piece.
Old 15th December 2008
  #292
Lives for gear
 
TobyToby's Avatar
 

[quote=Mike Caffrey;3731813]
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
"I rather stick a $2000 mic pre on a great performer with a great song."?
I think this is pretty normal (if you wanna make a living as a Producer/Recording Engineer/Studio Owner/Artist Manager/A&R/PM). Isn't it?
Old 15th December 2008
  #293
Lives for gear
 
Tone Laborer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
piece.

Of what?

I never knew quoting someone was so challenging.

+1 on Caffrey's points.
Old 15th December 2008
  #294
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
Well, maybe you're right. He started off bashing me and my opinions. When I wasted my time responding to him ; trying to make piece , he took the time to continue his insults. Then his pal Chaellus ; took it upon himself to fight this "battle" as well. I think it's really too bad that after only a few posts I've got 2 people whom I'll try to avoid on other threads in the future. One of which ; Mike , who may have been a nice source of information as I try to improve my gear.

If you're bored, take a minute and read the way these guys talked to me from the start. You'll understand why I began to bark back a bit. Well, gotta run. Taking my 2 boys down to the nursing home to sing carols with my acoustic. Puts a smile on the old folks faces to see the kids.
That would be inaccurate. Our first interaction within this thread was this post of yours:

Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
Sorry Caffey. Didn't mean to use such a "horrible" cliche. Wow. get a grip. Should an engineer use every tool possible in his arsenal to achieve the best sound/mix? Duh. Anyone who claims a piece of gear is standing in the way of perfection will never be satisfied until they get it... , if they have what it takes to excel. No doubt it's a cop-out to say "well, I could have done a better job, but I don't have a good pre or comp or mic or mixer." The quest for excellence NEVER ends ; regardless of what you do , if you want to be great at it.


Good thing for many slutzsnobs that they own some good pieces of gear to feed their egos. In all honesty I think there are literally thousands of great "engineers" working in mere "project" studios who could EASILY make mixes that would run with and above the "elite" givin the same high end gear. There are simply only so many tricks to the trade. The only variables after knowledge and experience are gear and performance by the artist.
That was in response to my post responding to Johnkenn. So in fact the start was not bashing you or our opinion it was responding to your unwarranted personal attacks and name calling. Then as the, what you choose to call "battle" continued, the bashing still came from only one direction which was yours - even when you persisted with the name calling.

I will admit to some sarcasm - the Mario Andretti comment, but even that wasn't in response to your post. As far as "my pal" Challus, I can't say that I recognize tha handle and I don't think he and I have ever met. If we did, it would probably have been in the flurry of meetings at Tape Op/PotLuck and would be very easy not to make the real life connection to a Gear Sluts handle. The relevance is yet another inaccurate characterization of people motives and behavior.

What you need to get from this who thing is that there is a high level of BS on GS and much of it is because there's a ton of nuance in what we're all trying to communicate. And for the most part, very few people here are able to communicate accurately, on interpret meaning without the additional visual cues from facial expression, body language, and what should be a big one of audio engineers, tone of voice.

There are also guys who are great writers, but who really don't have the knowledge and experience that their writing implies that they have. You need to figure out how to sort through and tolerate all of this stuff without rocking the boat and making personal attacks if you're going to enjoy GS at all.


In the mean time, my opinion is still the same - the cumulative effect of small differences in gear is invaluable and thus, you should always buy the best gear you can afford. While sound quality is not necessarily the most important thing in the big picture of making a record, it does matter, and matters a lot. And, if you're job is engineer rather than producer, it's the only thing that matters as that's what you're responsible for until your client tells you otherwise.
Old 15th December 2008
  #295
[QUOTE=TobyToby;3733626]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post

I think this is pretty normal (if you wanna make a living as a Producer/Recording Engineer/Studio Owner/Artist Manager/A&R/PM). Isn't it?
I think on GS, you'll see more posts saying "I'd rather record a great performer with mediocre gear..." than "I'd rather record a great performer with great gear."

Yes, I'll admit that I'm taking the first quote out of the context it's usually used in, but it's really odd that we see that written so much more often and also how much applause it gets when someone writes it.

I think it's creates a culture of defensive closemindedness rather than a culture of excellence.

We've certainly been suffering from a lack of excellence for the past 8 years. While that's a bit of a Bush reference, I think it's far more widespread and whatever has lead us, or "us", to our tolerance of "good enough" it's how he and far too nearly Palin (almost) got into office. I don't mean to make this political, but I think he's a perfect symbol of a widespread mindset.

How ironic is it that our most ubiquitous piece of modern technology doesn't work as well as the technology it replaced and is advertised with "can you hear me now?" and "our network has the fewest dropped calls." Fewest? You're advertising that your giant network with 1,000 repairmen stnading behind the guy using the phone has dropped calls and is still struggling with fundamentals?

To keep it less personal, lets not talk about today's converters. I think we can all agree that the converters in the 888 were pretty lame - how many people dumped tape for that?

I'm not saying that this thread's OP's intent was to suggest that all cheap gear is better than expensive gear, but the underlying arguement is that good enough rather than excellence is good enough (yes I see how "good enough" implies Good Enough, but don't waste time on word choice a look past it to my meaning).

"We" have allowed some bad momentum to happen. Check out Kevin Killen's interview here. Someone asked about things that he'd like to see change within the industry, or mistakes we're making something along those lines. One of his answers was that we need to stop using MP3s a reference mixes for approval.

Casting the argument aside that it's all going to be an MP3 anyway, the simple fact is, listening to an MP3 is not the same as listening to the final mix. It's treated as "good enough" but the reality is that it's just impatience or laziness to not listen to an AIFF file.

It's the same as making your own record. Who here did a first recording and mix that was better than the last recording and mix that they did? I think it's safe to say that the first one you do will be the worst one you ever do. So part of the DIY movement means always having the worst job the engineer will ever do - don't interpret this as being anti-DIY. There are plenty of good reasons for it, it's just another example of accepting good enough over excellence.

In a time where more than ever we're single oriented - not radio, iTunes and iPods. We make record an album, but the reality is that's 12 singles on iTunes. What's the benefit of recording 12 songs over 3-4? Please don't tell me anything that has to do with sales, especially from a band's point of view. The biggest money in the music business has never been from sales. Make a pie chart of the income from any of the biggest artist - the Stones, U2, Madonna, Brittany. Record sales is always the smallest part and I'm talking about the label's share - their 90+%. It's negligable compared to the rest of the pie.

How much do you think Radiohead is giving up form giving away their album? 90% of 10-14%, if they recouped. I don't know how many times that album was downloaded, but I bet the total number of copies where someone paid $15 would not have been enough for them to recoup in the context of a standard label deal for a first album. IT wouldn't surprise me if that was true for the total of all paid for copies. in other words, even though they had some big hits previously, there's a good chance that with the way label deal work, they wouldn't have had any income for sales of In Rainbows had it been released with a standard label deal in this climate.

So, what's the advantage to having a recording of 12 songs over 3-4? On the other hand, the money you spent on 12 songs could be split 3-4 ways rather than on 12 or send the same and do a video. Or spend the same and have a producer or a mixer work on it. Instead we opt for 12 that are "good enough".

Again, I'm staying consistent. I'm not advocating spending more than you can afford, just that the best you can afford is always the way to go, regardless of how small the difference is (assuming that there is a difference). Always push as far into excellence as you can.
Old 15th December 2008
  #296
Lives for gear
 
Chaellus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
That would be inaccurate. Our first interaction within this thread was this post of yours:



That was in response to my post responding to Johnkenn. So in fact the start was not bashing you or our opinion it was responding to your unwarranted personal attacks and name calling. Then as the, what you choose to call "battle" continued, the bashing still came from only one direction which was yours - even when you persisted with the name calling.

As far as "my pal" Challus, I can't say that I recognize tha handle and I don't think he and I have ever met.

What you need to get from this who thing is that there is a high level of BS on GS

You need to figure out how to sort through and tolerate all of this stuff without rocking the boat and making personal attacks if you're going to enjoy GS at all.


In the mean time, my opinion is still the same - the cumulative effect of small differences in gear is invaluable and thus, you should always buy the best gear you can afford. While sound quality is not necessarily the most important thing in the big picture of making a record, it does matter, and matters a lot. And, if you're job is engineer rather than producer, it's the only thing that matters as that's what you're responsible for until your client tells you otherwise.


all of the above is dead on and we didnt get into the so called arguement until you chimed in geterzan , plus Me and Mike have never personally met, i just replied on the fact that what he was saying was true...and that it was unwarrented to attack him or any other gearslutz when indeed what they were saying was true, had his or any other information been incorrect i would not have supported him nor would i have commented back..and it is incorrect for you to say that i was fighting his "so call battle" for him...if you read thru the pages i posted before he every came into this thread... we were discussing the same thing nicely and you had some sort of problem with that, you could have discussed your issue in a better way, but its to late for that.
Old 15th December 2008
  #297
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I will admit to some sarcasm - the Mario Andretti comment, but even that wasn't in response to your post. As far as "my pal" Challus, I can't say that I recognize tha handle and I don't think he and I have ever met.

What you need to get from this who thing is that there is a high level of BS on GS and much of it is because there's a ton of nuance in what we're all trying to communicate. And for the most part, very few people here are able to communicate accurately, on interpret meaning without the additional visual cues from facial expression, body language, and what should be a big one of audio engineers, tone of voice.

There are also guys who are great writers, but who really don't have the knowledge and experience that their writing implies that they have. You need to figure out how to sort through and tolerate all of this stuff without rocking the boat and making personal attacks if you're going to enjoy GS at all.


In the mean time, my opinion is still the same - the cumulative effect of small differences in gear is invaluable and thus, you should always buy the best gear you can afford. While sound quality is not necessarily the most important thing in the big picture of making a record, it does matter, and matters a lot. And, if you're job is engineer rather than producer, it's the only thing that matters as that's what you're responsible for until your client tells you otherwise.



Thankyou for taking the time to respond to me. I't's pretty hard to interpret emotion over the internet solely through the use of exclamation points or happy faces. I truly am sorry for my part in a disagreement which I felt centered around my dignity. I read your last response on the $85/$2200 thread where you quoted my early response. I did come on pretty strong. What can I say? I jumped the gun in assuming you were some great writer ; who like so many , talk in in an effort to feel important. I'm sorry. After reading even more of your posts, I can say that you have my respect as an engineer , no doubt. I wish you the best and a great holiday.
Old 15th December 2008
  #298
Quote:
Originally Posted by getarzan View Post
Thankyou for taking the time to respond to me. I't's pretty hard to interpret emotion over the internet solely through the use of exclamation points or happy faces. I truly am sorry for my part in a disagreement which I felt centered around my dignity. I read your last response on the $85/$2200 thread where you quoted my early response. I did come on pretty strong. What can I say? I jumped the gun in assuming you were some great writer ; who like so many , talk in in an effort to feel important. I'm sorry. After reading even more of your posts, I can say that you have my respect as an engineer , no doubt. I wish you the best and a great holiday.

Likewise.

What's your opinion on the flavor and nutrition of an $85 turkey vs a $2200 turkey (if there is such thing)?
Old 15th December 2008
  #299
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Likewise.

What's your opinion on the flavor and nutrition of an $85 turkey vs a $2200 turkey (if there is such thing)?
Until I've had a chance to taste the $2200 turkey, the $85 turkey was the best I ever had. I know that I would ALWAYS wonder why the $2200 turkey costs so much , until I've had the chance to try it! Thanks.
Old 16th December 2008
  #300
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 

I'm getting hungry
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
meldar produxshu / So much gear, so little time
8
themaidsroom / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
5
danchi / So much gear, so little time
6
kittonian / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
4

Forum Jump
Forum Jump